2014 Roster Discussion

[Hairyducked Idiot]

For what? 80 wins? Who cares?

 

Well, putting aside the fact that attendance would be higher and we might be more attractive to free agents, it wasn't fated to be 80 wins.

 

Teams projected to win 78-82 games this year (http://www.rlyw.net/index.php/RLYW/comments/the_2013_mlb_projection_blowout) include the Indians, Red Sox and Pirates. You can't just look at a team and say "That looks like 80 wins, why bother?"

[Hairyducked Idiot]

isn't every fa class basically [expletive] now? you're more likely to get screwed on big free agents now than you are to get someone like darvish,

 

A fact we all used to talk about quite a bit when emphasizing how important it was to make a big splash in 2011.

[Guest]

isn't every fa class basically [expletive] now? you're more likely to get screwed on big free agents now than you are to get someone like darvish,

 

A fact we all used to talk about quite a bit when emphasizing how important it was to make a big splash in 2011.

 

are you talking about the pujols offseason?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

isn't every fa class basically [expletive] now? you're more likely to get screwed on big free agents now than you are to get someone like darvish,

 

A fact we all used to talk about quite a bit when emphasizing how important it was to make a big splash in 2011.

 

are you talking about the pujols offseason?

 

Not only him, but yes.

 

By the time we decide we're "ready to win," free agency will be pretty dismal. Well, still be pretty dismal.

[Guest]

based on what they did last offseason, we all expected them to be competent going into opening day this season. again, saying they abandoned the major league team is just incorrect. they inherited a team that would have needed to spend huge in the last 2 offseasons to make them good immediately. just because they didn't/couldn't binge spend doesn't mean they abandoned the team.

 

it seems like a lot of people have done a complete 180 on baseball philosophy, just because we haven't been able to sign anybody for 100 million. instead of obsessing over 2 seasons that are already in the past, i'd rather be excited that

 

- we still have a healthy payroll (with lots of money to be spent this offseason)

- we have an awesome farm system with elite talent that is close to the majors

- we have an awesome front office

 

the payroll restrictions are vastly overstated on here.

 

We shall see about that one.

[Guest]

pujols- 10/246

prince- 9/214

sabathia 5/122

reyes 6/106

wilson 5/77

buehrle 4/58

papelbon 4/50

rollins 3/38

cespedes 4/36

aramis 3/36

 

those were the ten biggest contracts in the 2011 offseason. what exactly are we supposed to be sad about here? aramis and maybe cespedes? wilson already knew he wanted to go to LA, so that wasn't a possibility.

[scarey]

isn't every fa class basically [expletive] now? you're more likely to get screwed on big free agents now than you are to get someone like darvish,

 

Which is exactly why I'm ok with the current front office concentrating on building the farm system and not bogging down payroll with bad contracts exclusively for mediocre short term results (instead of bad results). It's hard for me to see it any other way.

Edited September 25, 2013 by scarey

[Guest]

based on what they did last offseason, we all expected them to be competent going into opening day this season. again, saying they abandoned the major league team is just incorrect. they inherited a team that would have needed to spend huge in the last 2 offseasons to make them good immediately. just because they didn't/couldn't binge spend doesn't mean they abandoned the team.

 

it seems like a lot of people have done a complete 180 on baseball philosophy, just because we haven't been able to sign anybody for 100 million. instead of obsessing over 2 seasons that are already in the past, i'd rather be excited that

 

- we still have a healthy payroll (with lots of money to be spent this offseason)

- we have an awesome farm system with elite talent that is close to the majors

- we have an awesome front office

 

the payroll restrictions are vastly overstated on here.

 

We shall see about that one.

 

i don't buy the payroll dropping under 100 mil

[KingCubsFan]

For what? 80 wins? Who cares?

 

Well, putting aside the fact that attendance would be higher and we might be more attractive to free agents, it wasn't fated to be 80 wins.

 

Teams projected to win 78-82 games this year (http://www.rlyw.net/index.php/RLYW/comments/the_2013_mlb_projection_blowout) include the Indians, Red Sox and Pirates. You can't just look at a team and say "That looks like 80 wins, why bother?"

Does this theoretical increase in attendance and theoretical desire of overpriced free agents to jump at the chance of coming to a team with the worst facilities in baseball ("But hey, they won 80 games last year!) really outweigh concrete things like getting Kris Bryant-type talents, taking risks on guys like Welington Castillo, Nate Schierholtz and Luis Valbuena in full-time roles, and putting the team in a better position when the Wrigley renovations are underway?

[SouthSideRyan]

- we still have a healthy payroll (with lots of money to be spent this offseason)

 

Calling the 14th highest payroll "healthy" while playing in a major market is letting Ricketts off easy. The payroll may be "healthy" relative to the rest of baseball, it is not where it should be.

 

And we don't yet know that we have lots of money to spend this offseason. I've gotten a little more optimistic recently, but I think most agree around here that even the high end of our payroll for '14 will involve adding one piece.

Edited September 25, 2013 by SouthSideRyan

[Guest]

isn't every fa class basically [expletive] now? you're more likely to get screwed on big free agents now than you are to get someone like darvish,

 

Which is exactly why I'm ok with the current front office concentrating on building the farm system and not bogging down payroll with bad contracts exclusively for mediocre short term results (instead of bad). It's hard for me to see it any other way.

There are ways for it to have played out where the team could have been very good this year without a huge impact on the future. But it would have required hitting on all the best bargain FA's and trades the past couple years.

[SouthSideRyan]

based on what they did last offseason, we all expected them to be competent going into opening day this season. again, saying they abandoned the major league team is just incorrect. they inherited a team that would have needed to spend huge in the last 2 offseasons to make them good immediately. just because they didn't/couldn't binge spend doesn't mean they abandoned the team.

 

it seems like a lot of people have done a complete 180 on baseball philosophy, just because we haven't been able to sign anybody for 100 million. instead of obsessing over 2 seasons that are already in the past, i'd rather be excited that

 

- we still have a healthy payroll (with lots of money to be spent this offseason)

- we have an awesome farm system with elite talent that is close to the majors

- we have an awesome front office

 

the payroll restrictions are vastly overstated on here.

 

We shall see about that one.

 

i don't buy the payroll dropping under 100 mil

 

I think we already did.

[Guest]

- we still have a healthy payroll (with lots of money to be spent this offseason)

 

Calling the 14th highest payroll while playing in a major market is letting Ricketts off easy. The payroll may be "healthy" relative to the rest of baseball, it is not where it should be.

 

this is your problem. you're unable to get over this entitlement of where it "should be", when all that really matters to the team is where it actually is. we're right in the middle of the pack. that's healthy. i'm not going to spend 2 years crying that we no longer have this advntage that was gifted to us (as fans) in the first place.

[treebird]

And we don't yet know that we have lots of money to spend this offseason. I've gotten a little more optimistic recently, but I think most agree around here that even the high end of our payroll for '14 will involve adding one piece.

 

the only piece ricketts is going to add this offseason is a glock so he can rob liquor stores every two weeks when payroll comes due.

[SouthSideRyan]

- we still have a healthy payroll (with lots of money to be spent this offseason)

 

Calling the 14th highest payroll while playing in a major market is letting Ricketts off easy. The payroll may be "healthy" relative to the rest of baseball, it is not where it should be.

 

this is your problem. you're unable to get over this entitlement of where it "should be", when all that really matters to the team is where it actually is. we're right in the middle of the pack. that's healthy. i'm not going to spend 2 years crying that we no longer have this advntage that was gifted to us (as fans) in the first place.

 

So you have no issue having a lower payroll than the Reds and White Sox. That's amazing to me.

[Guest]

- we still have a healthy payroll (with lots of money to be spent this offseason)

 

Calling the 14th highest payroll while playing in a major market is letting Ricketts off easy. The payroll may be "healthy" relative to the rest of baseball, it is not where it should be.

 

this is your problem. you're unable to get over this entitlement of where it "should be", when all that really matters to the team is where it actually is. we're right in the middle of the pack. that's healthy. i'm not going to spend 2 years crying that we no longer have this advntage that was gifted to us (as fans) in the first place.

 

So you have no issue having a lower payroll than the Reds and White Sox. That's amazing to me.

 

i do have a problem with it. it sucks. we all feel this way about it. some of us just don't want to keep complaining about it.

[Guest]

fans of the rays, pirates, indians, a's, and braves are going to be so sad about this season when they see what their payroll is.

[SouthSideRyan]

fans of the rays, pirates, indians, a's, and braves are going to be so sad about this season when they see what their payroll is.

 

Not as angry as Dodgers fans will be when they realize they didn't win the right way.

 

ETA: This endless marginalizing the enormous advantage a high payroll gives a team is why people like me feel the need to continue complaining about our "healthy" payroll

[Guest]

I'd be a lot more bothered by the payroll if:

 

- I was convinced that it would stay middle of the pack indefinitely

 

- There weren't at least 3 huge issues(I dunno what to call them) clouding the ability to tell what the payroll "ought" to be

 

- I wasn't convinced that it'd already be higher if not for stupid local politics

 

- And most importantly, if I thought that the current payroll level was a significant barrier (in the short term) to the team being a contender

 

Others may not agree on those points, like I've said before I'm not super interested in arguing about Forbes valuations and debt structure details and the like, so feel free to hate Ricketts all you please.

[Guest]

fans of the rays, pirates, indians, a's, and braves are going to be so sad about this season when they see what their payroll is.

 

Not as angry as Dodgers fans will be when they realize they didn't win the right way.

 

ETA: This endless marginalizing the enormous advantage a high payroll gives a team is why people like me feel the need to continue complaining about our "healthy" payroll

 

in each of the last 2 seasons there were 5 playoff teams ahead of the cubs in payroll and 5 behind.

[Guest]

- we still have a healthy payroll (with lots of money to be spent this offseason)

 

Calling the 14th highest payroll while playing in a major market is letting Ricketts off easy. The payroll may be "healthy" relative to the rest of baseball, it is not where it should be.

 

this is your problem. you're unable to get over this entitlement of where it "should be", when all that really matters to the team is where it actually is. we're right in the middle of the pack. that's healthy. i'm not going to spend 2 years crying that we no longer have this advntage that was gifted to us (as fans) in the first place.

 

The problem I have trouble accepting is WHY we don't have it anymore.

[Guest]

And we don't yet know that we have lots of money to spend this offseason. I've gotten a little more optimistic recently, but I think most agree around here that even the high end of our payroll for '14 will involve adding one piece.

 

the only piece ricketts is going to add this offseason is a glock so he can rob liquor stores every two weeks when payroll comes due.

LOL

[SouthSideRyan]

And I'm really having trouble reconciling the concurrent points of:

 

It's not the front office's fault, they are restricted by the budget. Once they get renovations/TV deals/McDonald's increases their prices they'll be able to spend and supplment the farm system (valid)

 

and

 

Look at all these teams that are in the playoffs with lower payrolls! You don't need money to win.

[SouthSideRyan]

fans of the rays, pirates, indians, a's, and braves are going to be so sad about this season when they see what their payroll is.

 

Not as angry as Dodgers fans will be when they realize they didn't win the right way.

 

ETA: This endless marginalizing the enormous advantage a high payroll gives a team is why people like me feel the need to continue complaining about our "healthy" payroll

 

in each of the last 2 seasons there were 5 playoff teams ahead of the cubs in payroll and 5 behind.

 

Would those 5 teams behind have gotten worse with extra money?

[Guest]

fans of the rays, pirates, indians, a's, and braves are going to be so sad about this season when they see what their payroll is.

 

Not as angry as Dodgers fans will be when they realize they didn't win the right way.

 

ETA: This endless marginalizing the enormous advantage a high payroll gives a team is why people like me feel the need to continue complaining about our "healthy" payroll

 

Eh. I'm on your side of this part of things, but I do think the high payroll advantage isn't what it used to be. It's something, I just don't think it's anywhere near indispensable. Like not even close.