Minor League Discussion & Boxes 8-8-13

[Guest]

Different topic-I always thought Balaguert was older than what he is. I thought he was 21 for some reason when he struggled in Peoria last year, not 19. Which says a lot that this FO gave him a shot there at that age. I guess I need to give him serious consideration for the back part of the top 30.

 

You might have been right about his age. Once I see D.R. on a player's page, you gotta wonder. Venezuela too, though their record keeping is supposedly better. But they may have an organized Government program to help their citizens.

 

Balaguert is from Cuba.

[abuck1220]

What's the origin of the Torreyes v. Rivero stuff?

 

The discusssions over whether trading Torreyes for $800k in IFA space, which ended up meaning just $800k in cash, was good value, turned into discussions over what Torreyes would get on the open market as an FA. I pointed to Rivero as a 25-year-old middle reliever getting rocked (at the time) at Kane County who got four times that on the open market.

 

ah i guess it was 800k then. my bad.

 

regular felix and oscar over here.

[Guest]

What's the origin of the Torreyes v. Rivero stuff?

 

The discusssions over whether trading Torreyes for $800k in IFA space, which ended up meaning just $800k in cash, was good value, turned into discussions over what Torreyes would get on the open market as an FA. I pointed to Rivero as a 25-year-old middle reliever getting rocked (at the time) at Kane County who got four times that on the open market.

 

You should know by now that the market is poor for a 5'5" second baseman who can't play well defensively or hit for power. The international market values tools, which Torreyes is short on.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

You should know by now that the market is poor for a 5'5" second baseman who can't play well defensively or hit for power. The international market values tools, which Torreyes is short on.

 

Didn't stop the tool-less Concepcion from getting $6m.

 

Rivero was a bad reference point, but I still say a guy with Torreyes' success at A+ and hit tool commands way more than $800k in cash in an unrestricted free agency situation.

[Guest]

You should know by now that the market is poor for a 5'5" second baseman who can't play well defensively or hit for power. The international market values tools, which Torreyes is short on.

 

Didn't stop the tool-less Concepcion from getting $6m.

 

Rivero was a bad reference point, but I still say a guy with Torreyes' success at A+ and hit tool commands way more than $800k in cash in an unrestricted free agency situation.

 

Still not a good comparison since Concepcion was signed before the change in the CBA.

[ctcf]

What's the origin of the Torreyes v. Rivero stuff?

 

The discusssions over whether trading Torreyes for $800k in IFA space, which ended up meaning just $800k in cash, was good value, turned into discussions over what Torreyes would get on the open market as an FA. I pointed to Rivero as a 25-year-old middle reliever getting rocked (at the time) at Kane County who got four times that on the open market.

 

ah i guess it was 800k then. my bad.

 

You could even look at it as $1.6 million in cash as there is a 100% tax on overage.

[davell]

Technically, isn't that 800k basically doubled because of where we are with the IFA budget? I'm still thinking Concepcion was hurt horribly by the mono and just never recovered. He was originally considered a "safe"(for a pitcher obviously) bet to make it as a back of the rotation type. KG even put him as 6th on his prospect list for us when he originally signed.

[TruffleShuffle]

yeah torreyes' hit tool that allowed him to hit .260 the last two years.

[craig]

Heh, when I sometimes read arguments that you're involved in, Kyle, I usually agree with your side, whether I post or not. This is one of the exceptions. Rivero was a very good arm, those guys attract offers, even if they are inconsistent or wild or have crummy mechanics. Teams figure they've got a shot to fix them, and if so there will be payoff. Not sure how sustainable Rivero's recent run is, but might be a nice example. Concepcion was a scouting sign, in a weird way he may remind me a little of Blackburn. Blackburn didn't throw real hard in high school, but showed some hints and had a build where projecting more was possible; he showed more in some spring showcases, and drafted in the first round. He didn't throw very hard last summer or in Mesa, but he flashed a couple of very fast games early in Boise, now I'm guessing he's back to not throwing very hard. But for a young projectable pitcher, even a few glimpses of excellent velocity is enough to stimulate strong interest.

 

I think that's kind of how it was for Concepcion. He hadn't thrown very hard in Cuban league, but he was young and projectable. he hasn't thrown very hard in US since signing. But in between Cuban league and his minor league disaster, the Cubs saw him at a showcase, or I'm guessing perhaps it was at a private workout, throwing 94-95 four or five innings into the workout. Had he done that much/ever before or since, or had any consistency, no. But they saw a young pitcher with a good, projectable pitcher's body, showing at least a flash of a good big-league fastball, and thought he had a chance. If he could get his mechanics more consistent, or grow and strengthen a bit, perhaps that kind of heat could become fairly routine for him, and you'd have a good-ceiling LHP.

 

None of that "flash" has been seen since. And perhaps when a guy is resting and psyching for a workout/showcase for weeks, rather than grinding every 5th day, it's a lot easier to throw kinda fast. But the Cubs saw a flash, and that prompted the investment.

 

In Torreyes's case, perhaps if he was 16 again teams would see potential. An extraordinary anti-K gift, maybe he'll grow 4 inches and 30 pounds, or maybe he'll become good defensively with practice. But now that he's 20, I don't think so. Concepcion could flash a couple of 95's in a showcase and get scouts interested; I don't think Torreyes is going to show up at 6'0" at any showcases. Right now I think scouts pretty much know what he's got in the toolbox, and without any chance for power, speed, or excellent defense, I don't think a one-tool contact hitter would generate a lot of interest.

[Lefty]

Different topic-I always thought Balaguert was older than what he is. I thought he was 21 for some reason when he struggled in Peoria last year, not 19. Which says a lot that this FO gave him a shot there at that age. I guess I need to give him serious consideration for the back part of the top 30.

 

You might have been right about his age. Once I see D.R. on a player's page, you gotta wonder. Venezuela too, though their record keeping is supposedly better. But they may have an organized Government program to help their citizens.

 

Balaguert is from Cuba.

 

Thanks for the correction, although with apologies to Lo-Pan Fan, it doesn't change the gist of my post.

[Guest]

Different topic-I always thought Balaguert was older than what he is. I thought he was 21 for some reason when he struggled in Peoria last year, not 19. Which says a lot that this FO gave him a shot there at that age. I guess I need to give him serious consideration for the back part of the top 30.

 

You might have been right about his age. Once I see D.R. on a player's page, you gotta wonder. Venezuela too, though their record keeping is supposedly better. But they may have an organized Government program to help their citizens.

 

Balaguert is from Cuba.

 

Thanks for the correction, although with apologies to Lo-Pan Fan, it doesn't change the gist of my post.

 

These days, I think you're overstating the age concerns.

[KingCubsFan]

Different topic-I always thought Balaguert was older than what he is. I thought he was 21 for some reason when he struggled in Peoria last year, not 19. Which says a lot that this FO gave him a shot there at that age. I guess I need to give him serious consideration for the back part of the top 30.

 

You might have been right about his age. Once I see D.R. on a player's page, you gotta wonder. Venezuela too, though their record keeping is supposedly better. But they may have an organized Government program to help their citizens.

 

Balaguert is from Cuba.

 

Thanks for the correction, although with apologies to Lo-Pan Fan, it doesn't change the gist of my post.

 

These days, I think you're overstating the age concerns.

These days, if anything, players will be saying they are older than they really are. Which isn't much of a concern for the teams (just MLB itself).

[Guest]

Different topic-I always thought Balaguert was older than what he is. I thought he was 21 for some reason when he struggled in Peoria last year, not 19. Which says a lot that this FO gave him a shot there at that age. I guess I need to give him serious consideration for the back part of the top 30.

 

You might have been right about his age. Once I see D.R. on a player's page, you gotta wonder. Venezuela too, though their record keeping is supposedly better. But they may have an organized Government program to help their citizens.

 

Balaguert is from Cuba.

 

Thanks for the correction, although with apologies to Lo-Pan Fan, it doesn't change the gist of my post.

 

Cuba is considerably less third-world than DR, though access to birth records may be just as difficult.

[Warpticon]

Kris Bryant seems to have shaken off that early rust;

 

In Boise: .294/.352/.627/.990

Last 10: .371/.425/.743/.1.168

August: .438/.526/.938/1.464

 

K% BB%?

 

24.1 and 8.6, though you have to remember that his first game skews that K% quite a bit. Take that one game out and his K% is 17.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

You could even look at it as $1.6 million in cash as there is a 100% tax on overage.

 

Technically, isn't that 800k basically doubled because of where we are with the IFA budget? I'm still thinking Concepcion was hurt horribly by the mono and just never recovered. He was originally considered a "safe"(for a pitcher obviously) bet to make it as a back of the rotation type. KG even put him as 6th on his prospect list for us when he originally signed.

 

No. Trust me. It's one of those counterintuitive math problems, but adding $800k to the pool only saves you $800k in total cash.

 

Still not a good comparison since Concepcion was signed before the change in the CBA.

 

That's why I said "on the market." I meant if he were a completely unrestricted FA.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Hairyducked Idiot

[KingCubsFan]

Rosscup to AAA

[Lefty]

Different topic-I always thought Balaguert was older than what he is. I thought he was 21 for some reason when he struggled in Peoria last year, not 19. Which says a lot that this FO gave him a shot there at that age. I guess I need to give him serious consideration for the back part of the top 30.

 

You might have been right about his age. Once I see D.R. on a player's page, you gotta wonder. Venezuela too, though their record keeping is supposedly better. But they may have an organized Government program to help their citizens.

 

Balaguert is from Cuba.

 

Thanks for the correction, although with apologies to Lo-Pan Fan, it doesn't change the gist of my post.

 

Cuba is considerably less third-world than DR, though access to birth records may be just as difficult.

 

 

As is Venezuela, but the point here is the accuracy of the information.

[CubsInNC]

Armando "I guess he's better than Torreyes" Rivero got promoted to Daytona? I hadn't noticed that.

 

Struck out two in a perfect inning tonight. Arguello said the other day that he showed up with his delivery all screwy early in the year and it robbed him of about 6 MPH, but it was fixed recently and he's been on a tear ever since.

Obviously #notascout, but I was pretty impressed by him when I saw him in Kane County a few weeks ago.

 

I saw him a week or 2 before that, and he had no movement on his fastball. I'm guessing the tweaks fixed movement as well (or he had an off series).

[CubsWin]

why would you consider arrieta a prospect? he's pitched almost 400 major league innings.

Because I wasn't thinking...