The Junior Lake thread

[Rob]

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the first annual tournament of Kyle, where participants compete to see who can Kyle the best.

 

Your first round matchups are "David vs CubinNY" and "Kyle vs Kyle." (He really jumped out to an early lead when he insisted on facing himself and wouldn't take 'no' for an answer).

[Guest]

How about if we never just talk about ceiling ever until guys are at least in A ball?

[dew1679666265]

How about if we never just talk about ceiling ever until guys are at least in A ball?

 

Lake and Castro, I believe, were in A or A+ when the comparisons began.

[jersey cubs fan]

So would this thread be more appropriately titled the Junior Kyle Thread?

[Guest]

How about if we never just talk about ceiling ever until guys are at least in A ball?

 

Counterpoint: we continue using a very easily understood concept and stop getting upset for it not meeting an arbitrary standard that it was never intended to meet or measure

[Guest]

* Edited July 15, 2014 by David

[Guest]

How about if we never just talk about ceiling ever until guys are at least in A ball?

 

Counterpoint: we continue using a very easily understood concept and stop getting upset for it not meeting an arbitrary standard that it was never intended to meet or measure

 

easily understood and stupid aren't mutually exclusive

[Hairyducked Idiot]

It's only "easily understood" in the vaguest sense because it completely breaks down into meaningless drivel the moment you examine it in anything other than the most casual way.

 

(There, that should put to rest who here Kyles the hardest)

[jersey cubs fan]

How about if we never just talk about ceiling ever until guys are at least in A ball?

 

Counterpoint: we continue using a very easily understood concept and stop getting upset for it not meeting an arbitrary standard that it was never intended to meet or measure

 

 

Ceiling isn't nearly as problematic as is the tendency for a lot of fans to assume the best of prospects until they have proven beyond a doubt that the best is not happening. If you have a realistic opinion of prospects' chances there is nothing wrong with the concept of discussing their ceiling*.

 

Does not apply to the way people divvy up pitching ceilings.

[Guest]

Now you ARE Kyle, congrats.

 

I actually remember you vehemently arguing that ceiling was the dumbest concept ever so really you're Kyling more by choosing to go the contrarian route on this one.

It is a dumb concept but if we are going to use it, we might as well have angreed upon definition that doesn't fall into absurdity. If Lake would have got close to where he could have given his size and athleticism he could have been Alcantara before Alcantara.

Edited July 15, 2014 by CubinNY

[Guest]

How about if we never just talk about ceiling ever until guys are at least in A ball?

 

Lake and Castro, I believe, were in A or A+ when the comparisons began.

They actually began in 2008 in rookie ball.

[dew1679666265]

How about if we never just talk about ceiling ever until guys are at least in A ball?

 

Lake and Castro, I believe, were in A or A+ when the comparisons began.

They actually began in 2008 in rookie ball.

 

Yeah, I was just going through some old threads and the separation began in A ball, so the comps must have been made in rookie ball. The ceiling talk was still there in 2009 for Lake, though, and nobody seemed to think it preposterous.

[Guest]

How about if we never just talk about ceiling ever until guys are at least in A ball?

 

Lake and Castro, I believe, were in A or A+ when the comparisons began.

They actually began in 2008 in rookie ball.

 

Yeah, I was just going through some old threads and the separation began in A ball, so the comps must have been made in rookie ball. The ceiling talk was still there in 2009 for Lake, though, and nobody seemed to think it preposterous.

Seems ludicrous now, but even after Castro came up at 20 and was a success in MLB, I still insisted that Lake had the higher ceiling.

 

btw (for others) - that term does not refer to "if everything goes right". It refers to the highest realistic projection for a player. Back in 2008-2010, it was still realistic that Lake's command of the strike zone would improve and his feel for the game would mature. Had those things happened, he would have been one heck of a player.

[dew1679666265]

Seems ludicrous now, but even after Castro came up at 20 and was a success in MLB, I still insisted that Lake had the higher ceiling.

 

btw (for others) - that term does not refer to "if everything goes right". It refers to the highest realistic projection for a player. Back in 2008-2010, it was still realistic that Lake's command of the strike zone would improve and his feel for the game would mature. Had those things happened, he would have been one heck of a player.

 

I remembered you were one of Lake's biggest supporters. I was a big fan of Lake as well, but fell just a little short of saying he had a higher ceiling than Starlin. I thought the ceilings were about similar.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Can we agree that at the time, we didn't have many nice things, so the thought of a toolsy 17 year old who could one day blossom into Juan Uribe meant something?

 

Though he was starting to get some attention after a big spring training, and picking up where he left off in AAA after his injury.

[Guest]

stahp

[Guest]

Back in 2008-2010, it was still realistic that Lake's command of the strike zone would improve and his feel for the game would mature. Had those things happened, he would have been one heck of a player.

 

i think it certainly did in the minors but that hasn't been seen against major league pitching yet. Maybe he's still in the see ball-hit ball phase and it may take him longer to get out of it. I wouldn't write him off just yet, he could still have a major league career. the problem with Lake was that his value would have been as an infielder.

[DiamondMind]

Lake has just one hit all month, and that was after a terrible June in which he hit .190 with a 1:26 BB:K ratio. His 10:92 BB:K ratio for the year would even be embarrassing to Danny Espinosa. Now that Arismendy Alcantara is up, it might just be time for Lake to straighten things out in the minors.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I wouldn't care if they outright released him today, but it is worth noting that Lake is down to one option and hasn't used one this year.

[Sammy Sofa]

The idea that Junior Lake existed in 2008 is baffling to me.

[treebird]

The idea that Junior Lake existed in 2008 is baffling to me.

 

yeah he's practically senior lake at this point

[DiamondMind]

yeah he's practically senior lake at this point

 

well done

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Lake up to -0.7 fWAR, excluding his 0-for-2 so far tonight. -1.0 very much within his grasp.

[CubInOK]

 

Junior Lake's retirement home:

 

http://hpbyrd.com/aegweb/images/sun.gif

 

[Aaron_Kennelly]

Junior Lake, since May 31 (and, yes, I included May 31 specifically because he was 0-5 with 3 K's that day and had 2 BB the day before -- sue me): .169/.181/.272 and 1/45 BB/K

 

That's over 138 PA. So his 32.6% K% over that span has actually brought his season K-rate down.

 

Oh, he also has only 1 extra-base hit since June 18th, a span of 75 AB.