Rizzo

[neely crenshaw]

Everyone knows it is a concern. However 1 game good or bad proves nothing either way. It was a tough match up for everyone especially lefties. Sure it would have been great if he went 4 for 4, but that would mean just as little as 0 for 4 did.

I suppose we should give up on Castro rebounding, and surely this mean Olt is a bust.

 

On the other hand it looks like Liriano and Samardzija will be 1-2 in the Cy Young race....

[treebird]

from jonah keri's big 2014 mlb predictions column:

 

Finally, while the Cubs did get 23 homers from Anthony Rizzo last year, his 2013 season still qualified as a mild disappointment. Right now, it looks like the Padres got the better end of the Rizzo-for–Andrew Cashner deal, and until Rizzo alters that narrative, the Cubs will probably sit in this spot.

 

i was pretty surprised to read this and thought most people regarded rizzo highly going forward and assumed cashner would just get hurt. does keri's sentiment there reflect the smart guy conventional wisdom?

[kente777]

Is this forum so overflowing with posts that we need to be hyper vigilant about quarantining posts to the right thread?

 

No, just people who want to monitor everything said on this forum.

[Geech]

Is this forum so overflowing with posts that we need to be hyper vigilant about quarantining posts to the right thread?

 

No, just people who want to monitor everything said on this forum.

 

Maybe people genuinely don't want to read negative overreactions to a single game. Maybe that's part of it.

[neely crenshaw]

With what we have we been put through the last 2 seasons it's hard to not carry over any preconceived notions of what guys are going to do.

We really do need to sit back and watch for at least a while before we jump off the deep end.

 

They do make it tough at times with their play. I mean Veras couldn't have done a better impression of Marmol unless he tried. Then we as fans, just feel like…here we go again. Sometimes people post as an outlet for their frustration.

In fairness to Veras, he may never do that again but man is it hard sometimes.

 

On the other hand there are just as many posters who would have proclaimed that Rizzo had arrived if he had 4 hits, and 2 jacks off a lefty.

Neither outcome proves anything but fans aren't always open minded when it comes to their team.

 

I don't know about you guys, but I do have to say I can't help cringing when I see the same type of performances again, even for a game or two. I try to refrain from making quick judgements, but I admit I did in the game thread with Veras…part jokingly, part out of frustration.

Edited April 3, 2014 by neely crenshaw

[neely crenshaw]

Also in response to the article on Cashner being the better end of the deal. Bottom line…who cares?! Exactly how many runs, wins or titles do you get for "winning" a trade?

 

We filled a glaring need, no matter where he ends up, he is a solid 1B. We all want him to be great, but even if he isn't that "guy", he is a solid addition to a good team. Going forward, at worst, he is probably a 3 win player because of his D. If Baez and Bryant are the bats we hope they will be, Rizzo would be a very not complement to that. Not to mention, with his defense, he will save Castro, Baez, and Olt lots of errors over the next 5 years, only adding to everyone's value.

 

So if they declare Cashner/San Diego the winner-great. I'll take our team over the Padres over the next 5 seasons anytime.

[SouthSideRyan]

I think we won the trade but...we couldn't use a young cost controlled starting pitcher??

[neely crenshaw]

Couldn't everyone?

Gotta give value to get value.

personally I lean toward pitching, but I can see with Cashner's health were they may undervalue him. It's kind of the nature of all bigger trades with young guys. If one becomes great, the team will talk about that deal forever!

Heck, didn't we talk Colvin vs Stewart for 2 seasons, and they weren't even good.

God, my parents still talked Brock for Broglio into the 90's. Probably still would if they were alive.

[Clem Fandango]

Well at the time we still had Garza and Dempster and other tradeable pieces that we all assumed they'd use to replenish pitching (and they did; Edwards, Hendricks, Ramirez, Black, Grimm). They viewed Cashner has a long term bullpen guy, and used him to fill a position of need elsewhere. It was a smart trade, regardless of hindsight.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

I might be wrong on this and perhaps somebody will post numbers to dispute it, but isn't this trade kind of difficult to determine "who won" based on Cashner pitching in San Diego and not Chicago?

 

I'm pretty sure his home numbers were FAR better than his road ones last season. The man is a good pitcher, but he's sort of at a big advantage pitching where he does now.

[mul21]

I might be wrong on this and perhaps somebody will post numbers to dispute it, but isn't this trade kind of difficult to determine "who won" based on Cashner pitching in San Diego and not Chicago?

 

I'm pretty sure his home numbers were FAR better than his road ones last season. The man is a good pitcher, but he's sort of at a big advantage pitching where he does now.

 

There wasn't ever a doubt as to his talent, it was more of an issue about his ability to stay healthy enough to be a starter and not a reliever. If he can pitch ~200 innings a year until they let him go, they probably "win" unless Rizzo really becomes a lot better than he has been thus far.

[Guest]

Cashner is a bit like Samardzija lite. His stuff is really good, with consistency he could be among the best pitchers in the game. While he was better at Petco last year(at least in the ERA sense), everyone does better at home and he was still a good pitcher on the road.

 

On the other hand, that stuff hasn't fully translated at the MLB level yet. His K rate has hovered in the Scott Feldman/Travis Wood range, and he hasn't had pinpoint control either. On top of that, he's had injury troubles, his 175 IP last year are only a few less than he threw the previous 3 years combined(205). Even with a step forward from last year in performance or durability, he's still in the Travis Wood range of total output. He's also 27 so there isn't a ton of age-specific improvement to expect either.

 

If you want to compare the trade, I'll still take Rizzo pretty easily. Rizzo's much younger, was able to be locked up long term(Rizzo has 6 years of team control while Cashner has 3), and his highs since the trade have been ever so higher, while still having just as much potential(if not more). My general preference for hitters over pitchers as building blocks tips the scales even further, personally.

[Backtobanks]

I might be wrong on this and perhaps somebody will post numbers to dispute it, but isn't this trade kind of difficult to determine "who won" based on Cashner pitching in San Diego and not Chicago?

 

I'm pretty sure his home numbers were FAR better than his road ones last season. The man is a good pitcher, but he's sort of at a big advantage pitching where he does now.

 

Why bring up the advantage Cashner has pitching in San Diego and not Rizzo hitting in Wrigley? As for who "won" the deal, I think it still is yet to be determined. Many "experts" are predicting Cashner in the Cy Young race this year, while Rizzo has youth as his advantage. Will Cashner remain healthy and consistently put up high inning counts every year? Will Rizzo become the franchise player that we saw glimpses of or be a decent hitter/great fielder for the rest of his career? All this is yet TBD.

[Guest]

I might be wrong on this and perhaps somebody will post numbers to dispute it, but isn't this trade kind of difficult to determine "who won" based on Cashner pitching in San Diego and not Chicago?

 

I'm pretty sure his home numbers were FAR better than his road ones last season. The man is a good pitcher, but he's sort of at a big advantage pitching where he does now.

 

Why bring up the advantage Cashner has pitching in San Diego and not Rizzo hitting in Wrigley? As for who "won" the deal, I think it still is yet to be determined. Many "experts" are predicting Cashner in the Cy Young race this year, while Rizzo has youth as his advantage. Will Cashner remain healthy and consistently put up high inning counts every year? Will Rizzo become the franchise player that we saw glimpses of or be a decent hitter/great fielder for the rest of his career? All this is yet TBD.

 

Wrigley is practically neutral, isn't it? It does favor lefties (over righties) a bit, though. I don't think it's near the advantage PetCo gives pitchers.

[Backtobanks]

I might be wrong on this and perhaps somebody will post numbers to dispute it, but isn't this trade kind of difficult to determine "who won" based on Cashner pitching in San Diego and not Chicago?

 

I'm pretty sure his home numbers were FAR better than his road ones last season. The man is a good pitcher, but he's sort of at a big advantage pitching where he does now.

 

Why bring up the advantage Cashner has pitching in San Diego and not Rizzo hitting in Wrigley? As for who "won" the deal, I think it still is yet to be determined. Many "experts" are predicting Cashner in the Cy Young race this year, while Rizzo has youth as his advantage. Will Cashner remain healthy and consistently put up high inning counts every year? Will Rizzo become the franchise player that we saw glimpses of or be a decent hitter/great fielder for the rest of his career? All this is yet TBD.

 

Wrigley is practically neutral, isn't it? It does favor lefties (over righties) a bit, though. I don't think it's near the advantage PetCo gives pitchers.

 

Which leads to the question - Who would have been the better player (Rizzo in Petco or Cashner in Wrigley) if the trade didn't happen?

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

http://i.imgur.com/fZsbT2w.gif

[Hairyducked Idiot]

One pace for a 7-WAR season

[gscool89]

One pace for a 7-WAR season

Good thing we overreacted after Opening Day facing one of the toughest lefties in baseball.

[Sammy Sofa]

I still don't like him, but that's mostly based out of an inrrational response to his dumb-looking face. And he'll likely suck against lefities again soon.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

I still don't like him, but that's mostly based out of an inrrational response to his dumb-looking face. And he'll likely suck against lefities again soon.

 

I missed this one. You don't like Rizzo? Why is that?

[Bryants Disco Ball]

Well, I guess you sort of answered it by saying you don't like his face. But baseball speaking.

[Sammy Sofa]

I don't know; I have a nagging suspicion it's the FO enamored with "their guy" as opposed to him being the cornerstone at 1B we all want (and really kinda need) him to be. I'm a baseball idiot, so there's not much to it beyond how I don't like his offensive splits and I'm not all that convinced that as much of last year can be chalked up to bad luck as some have argued. That said, I always love to be horribly, horribly wrong with these sort of these things.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

I don't know; I have a nagging suspicion it's the FO enamored with "their guy" as opposed to him being the cornerstone at 1B we all want (and really kinda need) him to be. I'm a baseball idiot, so there's not much to it beyond how I don't like his offensive splits and I'm not all that convinced that as much of last year can be chalked up to bad luck as some have argued. That said, I always love to be horribly, horribly wrong with these sort of these things.

 

OK. That's fair. I think Rizzo is good and will be a big part of our lineup and a reason why our team is hopefully good in the future. (I know, way to go out on the ledge). Now, I do think it might have to be Baez and Bryant that become the superstars, the guys in the middle of the order who hit 35 homers a year. Because I'm not sure Rizzo is going to be that guy.

 

But damn, a Baez, Bryant, Rizzo 3-4-5 could be awesome.

[Guest]

Rizzo doesn't have a dumb looking face, jerk.

[Sammy Sofa]

He's goofy-looking.