Might as well have a David Price thread

[David]

http://www.bleachernation.com/2013/04/17/lukewarm-stove-cubs-the-very-early-frontrunner-for-david-price/

 

Olney has the Cubs as his early front runners for Price.

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog/_/name/olney_buster/id/9177341/teams-lining-trade-david-price-giancarlo-stanton-mlb - for any with Insiders...the rest of us will have to just go off of what Brett has to say.

 

Well, offering an early, educated guess, Buster Olney has the Cubs at the top of his list of Price landing spots, on top of the Red Sox, Cardinals and Rangers. So much can happen between now and the time Price is actually traded, but it certainly makes sense. The Cubs will need a top of the rotation starter soon, and they could have a glut of positional prospects to trade by the end of this season. With top players increasingly attainable only by trade or internal development, it’s very easy to see the Cubs going hard after Price. Of course, so will many teams.

 

To that end, if you hope the Cubs land Price, you also need to hope that the Cubs’ top prospects continue to develop this year, and few explode out of nowhere. The price on Price is going to be extreme, and it would necessarily have to start with someone like Javier Baez, Jorge Soler, or Albert Almora.

 

(Here’s where you allow yourself a moment – just a moment – to drool about the possibility of a 2014 rotation that includes David Price, Jeff Samardzija, Matt Garza, Edwin Jackson, and Mark Appel. Ok. Enough of that.)

 

ZOMG that's just disgusting

[UMFan83]

Would definitely love to have Price, but it depends on the price tag. If we had to trade 2 of Baez, Soler and Almora, plus more, it might not be worth it due to the fact that we would have Shark, Jackson, and possibly Appel, with an option to keep or trade Garza. It would come down to would you rather have Price and the return on a potential Garza trade (which obviously isnt going to come close to what we'd give up for Price, or Garza with Baez, Soler and Almora or those 3 and the return on a potential Garza trade. Edited April 17, 2013 by UMFan83

[jersey cubs fan]

Any team that attempts to trade for Price, who is closer to free agency than Stanton, will want to do so only if it has a fair expectation of signing him to a long-term deal -- and the market price for a pitcher as good as Price is daunting. CC Sabathia got $161 million as a free agent before the 2009 season, Cole Hamels got $144 million, and Felix Hernandez and Verlander got $175 million and $180 million, respectively. Price is older than Stanton and bears a greater injury risk simply because he's a pitcher.

 

SPECULATION ALERT: An early guess -- and that's all it is, an educated guess -- on the teams that could be front-runners in the pursuit of Price and Stanton.

 

Stanton

1. Rangers

2. Mariners

3. Tigers

4. Cardinals

 

Price

1. Cubs

2. Red Sox

3. Cardinals

4. Rangers

 

For the Cubs, Price could lead a championship staff that currently lacks a potential ace. For the Rangers, a rotation of Price, Yu Darvish and Matt Harrison would be among the best in the majors. (Although on the other hand, Stanton might represent more production for more years.)

[GammonsPocketTweets]

With the big young bats coming off the market the past few years(Votto, Adam Jones) the pickings are really slim in terms of position players under 30, so the Cubs may not have many options to build an offensive powerhouse via free agency(no matter how much $$ they can throw at it)and trades. They may want to focus on building a dominant rotation with Price/Shark, possibly Appell(draft) and Garza if they hold on to him.

[UMFan83]

With the big young bats coming off the market the past few years(Votto, Adam Jones) the pickings are really slim in terms of position players under 30, so the Cubs may not have many options to build an offensive powerhouse via free agency(no matter how much $$ they can throw at it)and trades. They may want to focus on building a dominant rotation with Price/Shark, possibly Appell(draft) and Garza if they hold on to him.

 

Right but the hope is that at least 2 of Soler, Almora and Baez will be those position players we wouldn't be able to get via FA. If we trade them for Price, we make it even harder to have a strong offensive core. I could go either way...Price would obviously be the best pitcher we've had in Chicago since Prior and makes our staff dominant.

[Guest]

With the big young bats coming off the market the past few years(Votto, Adam Jones) the pickings are really slim in terms of position players under 30, so the Cubs may not have many options to build an offensive powerhouse via free agency(no matter how much $$ they can throw at it)and trades. They may want to focus on building a dominant rotation with Price/Shark, possibly Appell(draft) and Garza if they hold on to him.

 

Right but the hope is that at least 2 of Soler, Almora and Baez will be those position players we wouldn't be able to get via FA. If we trade them for Price, we make it even harder to have a strong offensive core. I could go either way...Price would obviously be the best pitcher we've had in Chicago since Prior and makes our staff dominant.

 

a top 5 Baez (as hard as it is to imagine with his performance so far), a newly top 50 Vogelbach (who the Rays have plenty of room for), and one of our many middle infield prospects.. ?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I can't see us paying Garza and Price simultaneously. That'd have to be an either/or situation.

 

So I think we'd be looking at Price/Samardzija/Jackson/Wood/Grappel. Which is still pretty drool-worthy. Vizcaino could conceivably push his way in, but I'm still thinking bullpen for him.

 

It all hinges around how the Rays see Javier Baez. Unless they are crazy in love with him, I just can't see us putting together a competitive package for Price. Rizzo, Castro or Soler don't fit their "hyper-cheap" model. Almora isn't a centerpiece quality prospect in a Price trade. The only way I can see it happening from a Rays perspective is if they have an absolutely huge Baez boner. This isn't a franchise known for their reasonable trade demands. They're going to want an absurd overpayment from the outside perspective, more than likely, and they'll hold out until someone gives it to them.

 

From the Cubs' perspective? It'd just feel weird. They've spent two offseasons eschewing all but one moderately expensive free agent in favor of building up a base of prospects. Why would they do a sudden 180 in order to pay a huge price in both prospects *and* a contract extension when they're now two years closer to actually seeing some results from that waiting?

 

Like I said, it sure looks like Price/Garza would be an either/or to me with our payroll structure. We'll probably get an outfielder to replace DeJesus and/or Soriano next offseason. Do those moves in concert make this team much more than a .500 team for 2014?

 

It's hard to figure out what the front office means and what they don't, but they've pretty consistent about talking about the "waves and waves of prospects" being the end-goal. With a realistic view of our farm system, that's 2015.

 

So in order to find a Price trade plausible, I'd have to believe:

 

1) The Rays *really* like Javier Baez as the centerpiece of a Price trade.

2) The Cubs could then proceed to package Baez into a trade that would beat every other offer from the other two dozen teams that would love to have him.

3) The Cubs would find Price to be such a unique opportunity that they would completely reverse course on two years worth of work to push for a 2014 competitive team. And that they'd want to hand out a massive, long-term extension to a pitcher, which is always an icky feeling.

 

I find all three of those to be fairly unlikely. All three taken together? I find it almost impossible to believe that'll happen.

[davell]

I would think it'd be one of our big 3. Hell, one of Baez or Almora really. Soler's contract makes him more valuable to us than other teams. Probably have to add Vogelbach to either of Baez or Almora, send Travis Wood possibly? I'm sure they'd want something that helps their major league team immediately. Then add in an Alcantara or Candelario as well. That'd be a likely top 25 prospect, a likely top 100, a solid major league piece, and another prospect that has top 100 type possibilities.

[davell]

Kyle, Almora can easily be a centerpiece if you're giving two dozen teams a shot at getting Price. He's very likely to be a top 25ish type prospect heading into next year.

[Guest]

 

It's hard to figure out what the front office means and what they don't, but they've pretty consistent about talking about the "waves and waves of prospects" being the end-goal. With a realistic view of our farm system, that's 2015.

 

And this is to your point that it's hard to figure out what they mean, but haven't they also been clear about wanting to leverage their farm system into impact major leaguers?

[Guest]

I'd MUCH rather spend the required assets to get Stanton over Price.

[davell]

 

It's hard to figure out what the front office means and what they don't, but they've pretty consistent about talking about the "waves and waves of prospects" being the end-goal. With a realistic view of our farm system, that's 2015.

 

And this is to your point that it's hard to figure out what they mean, but haven't they also been clear about wanting to leverage their farm system into impact major leaguers?

Yes, as evidenced by their infusion of 26-28 year old players comment.

[jersey cubs fan]

Kyle, Almora can easily be a centerpiece if you're giving two dozen teams a shot at getting Price. He's very likely to be a top 25ish type prospect heading into next year.

 

I don't understand your phrasing. Why would the presence of 20 other teams trying to trade for the same guy help Almora be a centerpiece?

[davell]

I'd MUCH rather spend the required assets to get Stanton over Price.

Me too, but we're not as armed as the Cards or Rangers are to get him. The Marlins would appear to want more of a pitching-heavy package, my guess is the Rays would much prefer a hitting-laden package. Couple it with other teams possibly iffy about going "all-in" on a pitcher, I think I see why we would be looked at as the favorites. Especially with us getting his college pitching coach.

[davell]

Kyle, Almora can easily be a centerpiece if you're giving two dozen teams a shot at getting Price. He's very likely to be a top 25ish type prospect heading into next year.

 

I don't understand your phrasing. Why would the presence of 20 other teams trying to trade for the same guy help Almora be a centerpiece?

To me, if you're a top 25ish prospect, even if your "lead piece" isn't the absolute best being offered, it puts you squarely in the running, to where it comes down to the rest of what you're giving up.

[Guest]

I'd MUCH rather spend the required assets to get Stanton over Price.

 

Yeah, I was hoping for a little better than I saw when I looked at Price's Fangraphs page.

[jersey cubs fan]

Kyle, Almora can easily be a centerpiece if you're giving two dozen teams a shot at getting Price. He's very likely to be a top 25ish type prospect heading into next year.

 

I don't understand your phrasing. Why would the presence of 20 other teams trying to trade for the same guy help Almora be a centerpiece?

To me, if you're a top 25ish prospect, even if your "lead piece" isn't the absolute best being offered, it puts you squarely in the running, to where it comes down to the rest of what you're giving up.

 

Okay, but I guess I just don't understand the point of saying "if you're giving two dozen teams a shot". The more demand there is for the guy the less likely a guy like Almora (not particularly high ceiling, and not close to the majors) can be a centerpiece in a trade that is going to get the job done.

 

I also think it's a pretty big assumption to call him a top 25 guy next year. He's rated highly right now based pretty much on reputation alone. He's going to have to perform at a high level this year to climb much higher this soon. He's already missing a chunk of time due to injury.

[davell]

Lots of graduations. If he comes back and basically holds his own, moves up to Daytona by the end of the year, I'm pretty confident he'll be a top 25ish type. But yeah, bad phrasing earlier.

[jersey cubs fan]

Lots of graduations. If he comes back and basically holds his own, moves up to Daytona by the end of the year, I'm pretty confident he'll be a top 25ish type. But yeah, bad phrasing earlier.

 

There will be graduations, but also new guys from this draft. Plus other guys who will emerge from the middle. I'm not saying it can't happen, but he's already starting behind the 8-ball injured and as a guy who is far from the majors, there isn't going to be a rush to bump him quickly. It's no lock.

[Cubswin11]

I'd MUCH rather spend the required assets to get Stanton over Price.

Yes, this x100

[davell]

Lots of graduations. If he comes back and basically holds his own, moves up to Daytona by the end of the year, I'm pretty confident he'll be a top 25ish type. But yeah, bad phrasing earlier.

 

There will be graduations, but also new guys from this draft. Plus other guys who will emerge from the middle. I'm not saying it can't happen, but he's already starting behind the 8-ball injured and as a guy who is far from the majors, there isn't going to be a rush to bump him quickly. It's no lock.

True. Can't argue that. My hope is his polish plays up and it moves him quick.

[Guest]

if we're going after an elite player through trades, i'd rather we go after a hitter.

[KingCubsFan]

With the big young bats coming off the market the past few years(Votto, Adam Jones) the pickings are really slim in terms of position players under 30, so the Cubs may not have many options to build an offensive powerhouse via free agency(no matter how much $$ they can throw at it)and trades. They may want to focus on building a dominant rotation with Price/Shark, possibly Appell(draft) and Garza if they hold on to him.

 

Right but the hope is that at least 2 of Soler, Almora and Baez will be those position players we wouldn't be able to get via FA. If we trade them for Price, we make it even harder to have a strong offensive core. I could go either way...Price would obviously be the best pitcher we've had in Chicago since Prior and makes our staff dominant.

 

a top 5 Baez (as hard as it is to imagine with his performance so far), a newly top 50 Vogelbach (who the Rays have plenty of room for), and one of our many middle infield prospects.. ?

It's almost impossible for a future DH like Vogelbach to ever be a top 50 prospect.

[Guest]

With the big young bats coming off the market the past few years(Votto, Adam Jones) the pickings are really slim in terms of position players under 30, so the Cubs may not have many options to build an offensive powerhouse via free agency(no matter how much $$ they can throw at it)and trades. They may want to focus on building a dominant rotation with Price/Shark, possibly Appell(draft) and Garza if they hold on to him.

 

Right but the hope is that at least 2 of Soler, Almora and Baez will be those position players we wouldn't be able to get via FA. If we trade them for Price, we make it even harder to have a strong offensive core. I could go either way...Price would obviously be the best pitcher we've had in Chicago since Prior and makes our staff dominant.

 

a top 5 Baez (as hard as it is to imagine with his performance so far), a newly top 50 Vogelbach (who the Rays have plenty of room for), and one of our many middle infield prospects.. ?

It's almost impossible for a future DH like Vogelbach to ever be a top 50 prospect.

 

I realize that almost the same can be said for 1B, but it's not like he can't play 1B. He just probably can't play it for us.

[jersey cubs fan]

With the big young bats coming off the market the past few years(Votto, Adam Jones) the pickings are really slim in terms of position players under 30, so the Cubs may not have many options to build an offensive powerhouse via free agency(no matter how much $$ they can throw at it)and trades. They may want to focus on building a dominant rotation with Price/Shark, possibly Appell(draft) and Garza if they hold on to him.

 

Right but the hope is that at least 2 of Soler, Almora and Baez will be those position players we wouldn't be able to get via FA. If we trade them for Price, we make it even harder to have a strong offensive core. I could go either way...Price would obviously be the best pitcher we've had in Chicago since Prior and makes our staff dominant.

 

a top 5 Baez (as hard as it is to imagine with his performance so far), a newly top 50 Vogelbach (who the Rays have plenty of room for), and one of our many middle infield prospects.. ?

It's almost impossible for a future DH like Vogelbach to ever be a top 50 prospect.

 

I realize that almost the same can be said for 1B, but it's not like he can't play 1B. He just probably can't play it for us.

 

By many accounts he can't really be relied upon to play 1B.