Marmol Watch

[Little Slide Rooter]

that's what i mean; i'm glad he was making guys put the ball in play rather than getting free passes

 

Marte bloops it to CF: OK pitch, maybe a little bad

gets squeezed on strike 3 to Martin, walks him: meh

McCutchen rips single on FB over the plate: bad pitch

coaxes a GB other way from Sanchez that finds a hole: good pitch

K's Alvarez: good pitch

Walker's GIDP: good pitch

 

the results were [expletive], and it obviously wasn't ideal but it's far from deserving of the dumb DFA rhetoric

 

Well, yeah, DFA is a stupid option right now; I'm just saying the way it played out didn't really fill me with much confidence. I'd love it if the latter half of the the PA's lead to him righting the ship.

 

I'd have to assume that a demotion to set up and then middle relief would be long before DFA. Even at this point they could probably get a few bucks salary relief and a fringe prospect or 2 in trade.

 

But as I've said about Marmol the past few years, when he was lights out, he missed the zone like 70% of the time, but his stuff was so nasty that batters swung anyway. "Effectively wild" as they say.

 

Once hitters and coaches caught on to that, they began laying off. As a result, at bats became longer, driving up his pitch counts, which could have had to do with his decreased velocity. That forced his hand to start throwing more strikes, making him far more hittable.

[Old Style]

DFA

Ahem

[Bryants Disco Ball]

Bad medicals or not, I still really wish we'd have done the Haren trade. I really didn't see that one working out poorly, even if Haren never pitched a game for the Cubs.

 

This last sentence of this comment makes my hed hurd.

 

And now?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I'm gonna let the PitchFX data talk me into believing tonight wasn't that bad if I can.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

He's had an uncanny ability all year to just barely but legitimately miss the bottom of the strike zone on every low pitch he tries.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

I'm gonna let the PitchFX data talk me into believing tonight wasn't that bad if I can.

 

I respect that, but the eye test keeps making me feel like crap.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I really want Marmol to pitch in the home opener.

[Schwarber Fan]

Paul Sullivan ‏@PWSullivan 14m

 

Sveum says it's time to talk about removing Marmol as closer.

[Hawk4Hall]

The 10 Million Dollar Man isn't worth 10 cents.

 

DFA now.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

You can't cut a guy throwing 95 with a good slider just yet. He doesn't need to see anything but mop-up duty, but it's probably worth it to give him a chance to pitch out of it in extremely low-leverage innings.

[RynoRules]

Agree you can't DFA him, but losing a game like this is just brutal.

[manbearcub]

Looking forward to the team introductions on Monday.

[Soul]

It's hard to have a Marmol watch, because it's harder and harder to watch Marmol.

[Rob]

Most of the people lobbying to have him taken out of the closers role are being pretty dumb. He's not an elite reliever anymore, but the Cubs don't have anybody that's any more than a 50/50 shot to be better. Best to leave him there and try to get some trade value. Besides, it's not like 3 innings pitched tells you anything about a player (not even stuff like how "hitable" they are).

 

That said, I'm not completely ignorant as to the human factor of things. Marmol is going to have a much harder time righting the ship with all the added pressure from the media and fans. Probably best at this point to pull him out of the role, get some nice matchups to boost the stats, and maybe reintroduce him to the closers spot in Mid-May when the public has stopped paying attention -- It worked last year.

 

It does suck that the fans had to choose a guy we're trying to trade as the scapegoat though. Why couldn't it ever be a non-entity that we shouldn't care about, like Brent Lillibridge or Joe Mather?

[Guest]

i'm one of the ones who defend the long method theo/jed are using, but even i wouldn't say things like "best to leave him there and try to get some trade value" when it's the first week or the season. i mean, we can't even get like 2 weeks worth of games that feel like they kind of matter before we start giving up? and for what, so some crappy reliever might come through on the 2% chance that he suddenly becomes the reliever he hasn't been for like 3 years? marmol sucks, and has sucked for a while. bury him in mop-up.

[Rob]

i'm one of the ones who defend the long method theo/jed are using, but even i wouldn't say things like "best to leave him there and try to get some trade value" when it's the first week or the season. i mean, we can't even get like 2 weeks worth of games that feel like they kind of matter before we start giving up? and for what, so some crappy reliever might come through on the 2% chance that he suddenly becomes the reliever he hasn't been for like 3 years? marmol sucks, and has sucked for a while. bury him in mop-up.

 

What?

 

Leaving him at closer isn't exactly throwing in the towel when we don't have anybody better for the job right now. Camp and Russell posted similar FIPs and xFIPs last year and aren't exactly big upside guys themselves. Maaaaaybe Fujikawa, but I think it's pretty early to suggest that.

 

As to the "sucks" thing, 2010 was his best year. 2011 was definitely respectable. And he was just fine after coming off the DL in late May last year. Is anybody expecting him to revert to his 2010 form? No. But there's a very reasonable chance he could look useful to a contender.

 

Your argument isn't logical. It's purely emotional. Which is fine, I suppose, as long as you'd rather be making silly arguments than being frustrated.

[Guest]

i think your expectations of how highly other teams might value marmol are out of proportion. even if he gets it together, nobody is going to trust him. even if GMs are dumb enough to overvalue a reliever based on the closer thing, i doubt they are going to want a guy who has some of the worst control in baseball and has been on the fringe of losing the "closer" role for a long time.

 

if there isn't a better option than marmol and we can't afford to use him in low leverage innings, then something is wrong. i think there are multiple guys who are as likely to be better options than marmol going forward. i think you're giving away wins by trying to force something into becoming an asset.

[Banedon]

Before last night, I'd have wanted Fujikawa for closer. Now I dunno who I want closing.

[illiniguy]

Is this just all a result of overuse? It seems his stuff is still decent.

[XZero771679666304]

i'm one of the ones who defend the long method theo/jed are using, but even i wouldn't say things like "best to leave him there and try to get some trade value" when it's the first week or the season. i mean, we can't even get like 2 weeks worth of games that feel like they kind of matter before we start giving up? and for what, so some crappy reliever might come through on the 2% chance that he suddenly becomes the reliever he hasn't been for like 3 years? marmol sucks, and has sucked for a while. bury him in mop-up.

 

What?

 

Leaving him at closer isn't exactly throwing in the towel when we don't have anybody better for the job right now. Camp and Russell posted similar FIPs and xFIPs last year and aren't exactly big upside guys themselves. Maaaaaybe Fujikawa, but I think it's pretty early to suggest that.

 

As to the "sucks" thing, 2010 was his best year. 2011 was definitely respectable. And he was just fine after coming off the DL in late May last year. Is anybody expecting him to revert to his 2010 form? No. But there's a very reasonable chance he could look useful to a contender.

 

Your argument isn't logical. It's purely emotional. Which is fine, I suppose, as long as you'd rather be making silly arguments than being frustrated.

 

If there's anything that I've gleaned from the Soriano/potential trade saga, it's that even among executives, perception often trumps reality. Unless Marmol does revert to his 2010 form starting pretty much immediately, the Cubs aren't getting much for him. He was terrible for a huge part of last year, he was terrible in ST and he's been terrible so far int he regular season.

 

DFAing him would be stupid, but I can definitely see the argument for pulling him from the cloer's role, at least for a while. I think his trade value is about as diminished as it can get.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Teams are always looking for reliable middle relief in the summer. If nothing else, Marmol would be an appealing part of a package. He still has great velo, though not the filth he once had. If he can be a dominant or even an effective middle reliever, teams will call, though the offers will be far from awe inspiring. Even if we get a 25 year old AA LOOGY and a raw, low A lottery ticket, it's better than buying him a way ticket to anywhere but here with nothing in return. Also, with his velo there will always be teams who feel as though their pitching coaches can fix him, especially if its a low risk rental.

 

And lest we forget, we got a pretty solid return for Latroy Hawkins back when it was pretty much common knowledge that his relationship with the Cubs was about to expire. Granted, Latroy didn't nearly blow his first three save opportunities in comical fashion, but he didn't have Marmol's pure stuff either. And I highly doubt that Marmol will be quite this awful for a month or two.

[THISisTHEyear09]

@PWSulivan Fuji is new closer. Marmol out.

[Andy]

It does suck that the fans had to choose a guy we're trying to trade as the scapegoat though. Why couldn't it ever be a non-entity that we shouldn't care about, like Brent Lillibridge or Joe Mather?

If Lillibridge or Mather were constantly playing terribly in late-game situations to lose us ballgames, maybe they would have been labeled the scapegoat. It's not like the fans picked Marmol randomly.

[bcl412]

Before last night, I'd have wanted Fujikawa for closer. Now I dunno who I want closing.

 

I'd prefer to have whomever is pitching best close the game. It is hard to tell who that is at this point but Marmol had been pretty crappy in his first two outings and I don't think bringing him in up 1 to the top half a good line up was good idea. Since Russel and Kuji had been used, I would have put Camp in there.

 

Camp may have blown it too but they would have had a better chance of winning if he pitched.

[KaiserCesar]

So does Marmol get put to the back of the bullpen with Rondon meaning a more prominent role for Bowden? I can't see him pitching in high leverage situations for awhile.