2013 College Football off-season

[Guest]

Also, I'm failing to see a connection between an "undeserving" team getting to the SECCG or beyond being good for the SEC's title streak.

In a nutshell, an extra conference game on the schedule means half the teams in the league get one more loss. That extra loss, depending on which teams take it, could make the difference between the SEC winning another title and not ever having the chance. If Bama had played in Athens last year instead of playing Western Kentucky, maybe they lose that game. All else being equal, that would've sent a 2-loss team from the West to the SEC title game, and that game would no longer have been a de facto semifinal, but an elimination game for Georgia.

 

Those things aren't really unique to the SEC. 3 of the 5 power conferences play 8 game slates, and one of the conferences that does play 9 games doesn't have a conference title game. There are potentially inequalities there as well as a million other places, because it's a sport with a 12 game schedule and ~75 true competitors, but the 8 game schedule is hardly as conspiratorial as you're making it out to be.

[Tracer Bullet]

Seeing TT defending the dark side is really difficult to accept.

[Andy]

Also, I'm failing to see a connection between an "undeserving" team getting to the SECCG or beyond being good for the SEC's title streak.

In a nutshell, an extra conference game on the schedule means half the teams in the league get one more loss. That extra loss, depending on which teams take it, could make the difference between the SEC winning another title and not ever having the chance. If Bama had played in Athens last year instead of playing Western Kentucky, maybe they lose that game. All else being equal, that would've sent a 2-loss team from the West to the SEC title game, and that game would no longer have been a de facto semifinal, but an elimination game for Georgia.

 

Those things aren't really unique to the SEC. 3 of the 5 power conferences play 8 game slates, and one of the conferences that does play 9 games doesn't have a conference title game. There are potentially inequalities there as well as a million other places, because it's a sport with a 12 game schedule and ~75 true competitors, but the 8 game schedule is hardly as conspiratorial as you're making it out to be.

The SEC is the only league in which those schedule inequalities dramatically affect the national title picture at the moment, however, due to the chasm separating the good and bad teams in that league, which doesn't exist in any other major conference right now.

[OleMissCub]

People really are butthurt about the SEC.

[Guest]

Those things aren't really unique to the SEC. 3 of the 5 power conferences play 8 game slates, and one of the conferences that does play 9 games doesn't have a conference title game. There are potentially inequalities there as well as a million other places, because it's a sport with a 12 game schedule and ~75 true competitors, but the 8 game schedule is hardly as conspiratorial as you're making it out to be.

The SEC is the only league in which those schedule inequalities dramatically affect the national title picture at the moment, however, due to the chasm separating the good and bad teams in that league, which doesn't exist in any other major conference right now.

 

Divisional scheduling hijinks are not new to disrupting the BCS, I got to experience that fun first hand in 2007.

 

As for the gap between the good and bad teams, looking at F/+ last year:

 

SEC: 6 in the Top 15, 7 in the Top 45, 11 in the Top 60, 3 ranked 60+

 

Pac 12: 2 in the Top 15, 6 in the Top 45, 7 in the Top 60, 5 ranked 60+

 

Big 12: 3 in the Top 15, 7 in the Top 45, 9 in the Top 60, 1 ranked 60+

 

Big 10: 2 in the Top 15, 7 in the Top 45, 7 in the Top 60, 5 ranked 60+

 

The SEC doesn't have as much in the 15-50 range, mostly because nearly half the conference was ranked in the Top 15. If there's a gap in the haves and the have-nots, it's just as wide in other conferences, except for the Big 12(which has its own measurement issues).

[NOLA]

People really are butthurt about the SEC.

[Andy]

People really are butthurt about the SEC.

Without people like me, worshiping at the altar of the conference wouldn't be as much fun, would it?

[Andy]

Those things aren't really unique to the SEC. 3 of the 5 power conferences play 8 game slates, and one of the conferences that does play 9 games doesn't have a conference title game. There are potentially inequalities there as well as a million other places, because it's a sport with a 12 game schedule and ~75 true competitors, but the 8 game schedule is hardly as conspiratorial as you're making it out to be.

The SEC is the only league in which those schedule inequalities dramatically affect the national title picture at the moment, however, due to the chasm separating the good and bad teams in that league, which doesn't exist in any other major conference right now.

 

Divisional scheduling hijinks are not new to disrupting the BCS, I got to experience that fun first hand in 2007.

 

As for the gap between the good and bad teams, looking at F/+ last year:

 

SEC: 6 in the Top 15, 7 in the Top 45, 11 in the Top 60, 3 ranked 60+

You are arguing against my point (the SEC's top teams are far above the lower ones) by showing stats that completely support it (7 SEC teams outside the top 45 last year, more than any other league you listed, while 6 were in the top 15, also more than any other league you listed).

[Guest]

Those things aren't really unique to the SEC. 3 of the 5 power conferences play 8 game slates, and one of the conferences that does play 9 games doesn't have a conference title game. There are potentially inequalities there as well as a million other places, because it's a sport with a 12 game schedule and ~75 true competitors, but the 8 game schedule is hardly as conspiratorial as you're making it out to be.

The SEC is the only league in which those schedule inequalities dramatically affect the national title picture at the moment, however, due to the chasm separating the good and bad teams in that league, which doesn't exist in any other major conference right now.

 

Divisional scheduling hijinks are not new to disrupting the BCS, I got to experience that fun first hand in 2007.

 

As for the gap between the good and bad teams, looking at F/+ last year:

 

SEC: 6 in the Top 15, 7 in the Top 45, 11 in the Top 60, 3 ranked 60+

You are arguing against my point (the SEC's top teams are far above the lower ones) by showing stats that completely support it (7 SEC teams outside the top 45 last year, more than any other league you listed, while 6 were in the top 15, also more than any other league you listed).

 

My point is that if you're comparing scheduling inequalities to other conferences(and implicitly, that the SEC is on a similar plane in terms of quality), that if you have a ton of SEC teams at the top of the rankings, then there should similarly be a ton of teams at the bottom. That isn't the case though. Like you mention, 7 of 14 are outside the Top 45, compared to 5 of 10 in the Big 12, 6 of 12 in the Pac 12, and 5 of 12 in the Big 10. As I showed in the previous post, for teams outside the Top 60(or a proxy of bowl eligibility), it's even more tilted in the SEC's favor. Last year at least, the SEC's top was clearly better/deeper than other conferences, but there's no indication it's because the bottom was worse.

[Andy]

I never implied the SEC was on a similar plane in terms of quality. My argument was exactly the opposite - that the scheduling shenanigans in that league are a bigger deal than in other leagues because the SEC is better at the top than all the others, and therefore they directly affect the national title picture.

 

Last year, Florida had a better resume than Georgia but missed the SEC title game because A) they picked the Georgia game as the game they were going to turn the ball over 200 times and B) they drew Bama as a cross-division game (on top of LSU being their fixed opponent, which they won) while Georgia played Ole Miss (and have Auburn as the fixed opponent). And going forward there's an excellent chance a similar scenario plays out annually, with South Carolina the most likely beneficiary this year.

 

In sum, my point is 14-team leagues are stupid, and they're even stupider if the league sticks to an 8-game conference schedule.

[Guest]

I never implied the SEC was on a similar plane in terms of quality. My argument was exactly the opposite - that the scheduling shenanigans in that league are a bigger deal than in other leagues because the SEC is better at the top than all the others, and therefore they directly affect the national title picture.

 

Last year, Florida had a better resume than Georgia but missed the SEC title game because A) they picked the Georgia game as the game they were going to turn the ball over 200 times and B) they drew Bama as a cross-division game (on top of LSU being their fixed opponent, which they won) while Georgia played Ole Miss (and have Auburn as the fixed opponent). And going forward there's an excellent chance a similar scenario plays out annually, with South Carolina the most likely beneficiary this year.

 

Well sure, the scheduling shenanigans suck for the SEC teams(thanks for giving us 5 games against the Top 13 last year Uncle Mike!), but I'm not seeing the huge impact on the National Championship race here. If Georgia won against Bama they'd probably have a slightly lesser SOS than Florida, but have the best win and a win over Florida in Jacksonville. They would've been worthy of a title game spot. But they didn't win, and Florida was in the BCS and Georgia was not. Is it really of utmost importance which SEC schools are cycling through certain spots in the pecking order as long as they all are in the appropriate spots in the end?

[NOLA]

As to the point that the 6-1-1 scheduling in the SEC gives teams in a particular year a clearer shot to a National Title game, which I think was the original point of this discussion, I submit this:

 

2014 Ohio State University football schedule:

 

Aug. 31: Buffalo (Ohio Stadium)

Sept. 7: San Diego State (Ohio Stadium)

Sept. 14: at California (Berkeley, Calif.)

Sept. 21: Florida A&M (Ohio Stadium)

Sept. 28: Wisconsin (Ohio Stadium)

Oct. 5: at Northwestern (Evanston, Ill.)

Oct. 19: Iowa (Ohio Stadium)

Oct. 26: Penn State (Ohio Stadium)

Nov. 2: at Purdue (West Lafayette, Ind.)

Nov. 16: at Illinois (Champaign, Ill.)

Nov. 23: Indiana (Ohio Stadium)

Nov. 30: at Michigan (Ann Arbor, Mich.)

 

It seems like you are trying to portray the SEC scheduling as giving teams some sort of unfair advantage that other conferences do not have. OSU is one of the favorites to reach the title game, and that schedule shows me a big reason why.

[NOLA]

And again, if someone wants to stop the SEC's string of National Titles, they should beat them on the field in a title game. This isn't 1987. The title isn't given away by sportswriters.

[Andy]

As to the point that the 6-1-1 scheduling in the SEC gives teams in a particular year a clearer shot to a National Title game, which I think was the original point of this discussion, I submit this:

 

2014 Ohio State University football schedule:

 

Aug. 31: Buffalo (Ohio Stadium)

Sept. 7: San Diego State (Ohio Stadium)

Sept. 14: at California (Berkeley, Calif.)

Sept. 21: Florida A&M (Ohio Stadium)

Sept. 28: Wisconsin (Ohio Stadium)

Oct. 5: at Northwestern (Evanston, Ill.)

Oct. 19: Iowa (Ohio Stadium)

Oct. 26: Penn State (Ohio Stadium)

Nov. 2: at Purdue (West Lafayette, Ind.)

Nov. 16: at Illinois (Champaign, Ill.)

Nov. 23: Indiana (Ohio Stadium)

Nov. 30: at Michigan (Ann Arbor, Mich.)

 

It seems like you are trying to portray the SEC scheduling as giving teams some sort of unfair advantage that other conferences do not have. OSU is one of the favorites to reach the title game, and that schedule shows me a big reason why.

You're missing the point. The SEC stuff I'm talking about only applies to teams within that conference. Everyone knows Ohio State and their weak-ass B1G schedule gives them advantages over contenders from better leagues.

[Andy]

I never implied the SEC was on a similar plane in terms of quality. My argument was exactly the opposite - that the scheduling shenanigans in that league are a bigger deal than in other leagues because the SEC is better at the top than all the others, and therefore they directly affect the national title picture.

 

Last year, Florida had a better resume than Georgia but missed the SEC title game because A) they picked the Georgia game as the game they were going to turn the ball over 200 times and B) they drew Bama as a cross-division game (on top of LSU being their fixed opponent, which they won) while Georgia played Ole Miss (and have Auburn as the fixed opponent). And going forward there's an excellent chance a similar scenario plays out annually, with South Carolina the most likely beneficiary this year.

 

Well sure, the scheduling shenanigans suck for the SEC teams(thanks for giving us 5 games against the Top 13 last year Uncle Mike!), but I'm not seeing the huge impact on the National Championship race here. If Georgia won against Bama they'd probably have a slightly lesser SOS than Florida, but have the best win and a win over Florida in Jacksonville. They would've been worthy of a title game spot. But they didn't win, and Florida was in the BCS and Georgia was not. Is it really of utmost importance which SEC schools are cycling through certain spots in the pecking order as long as they all are in the appropriate spots in the end?

Not to me personally, of course. I'm just looking from the point of view of fans of the individual teams. Hell, I feel terrible for poor Tennessee, who if they ever actually do get good again still has to deal with Alabama annually on top of Florida, Georgia et al.

[NOLA]

As to the point that the 6-1-1 scheduling in the SEC gives teams in a particular year a clearer shot to a National Title game, which I think was the original point of this discussion, I submit this:

 

2014 Ohio State University football schedule:

 

Aug. 31: Buffalo (Ohio Stadium)

Sept. 7: San Diego State (Ohio Stadium)

Sept. 14: at California (Berkeley, Calif.)

Sept. 21: Florida A&M (Ohio Stadium)

Sept. 28: Wisconsin (Ohio Stadium)

Oct. 5: at Northwestern (Evanston, Ill.)

Oct. 19: Iowa (Ohio Stadium)

Oct. 26: Penn State (Ohio Stadium)

Nov. 2: at Purdue (West Lafayette, Ind.)

Nov. 16: at Illinois (Champaign, Ill.)

Nov. 23: Indiana (Ohio Stadium)

Nov. 30: at Michigan (Ann Arbor, Mich.)

 

It seems like you are trying to portray the SEC scheduling as giving teams some sort of unfair advantage that other conferences do not have. OSU is one of the favorites to reach the title game, and that schedule shows me a big reason why.

You're missing the point. The SEC stuff I'm talking about only applies to teams within that conference. Everyone knows Ohio State and their weak-ass B1G schedule gives them advantages over contenders from better leagues.

 

OK, but how is what the SEC does giving an unfair advantage that other teams do not enjoy? Look at the schedules of the SEC teams that went to the title games during the run. Those were not cakewalk schedules by any stretch of the imagination. And again Oregon, Ohio State, Notre Dame, etc could have beaten the SEC teams on the field but did not. Most times it wasn't close.

[Andy]

As to the point that the 6-1-1 scheduling in the SEC gives teams in a particular year a clearer shot to a National Title game, which I think was the original point of this discussion, I submit this:

 

2014 Ohio State University football schedule:

 

Aug. 31: Buffalo (Ohio Stadium)

Sept. 7: San Diego State (Ohio Stadium)

Sept. 14: at California (Berkeley, Calif.)

Sept. 21: Florida A&M (Ohio Stadium)

Sept. 28: Wisconsin (Ohio Stadium)

Oct. 5: at Northwestern (Evanston, Ill.)

Oct. 19: Iowa (Ohio Stadium)

Oct. 26: Penn State (Ohio Stadium)

Nov. 2: at Purdue (West Lafayette, Ind.)

Nov. 16: at Illinois (Champaign, Ill.)

Nov. 23: Indiana (Ohio Stadium)

Nov. 30: at Michigan (Ann Arbor, Mich.)

 

It seems like you are trying to portray the SEC scheduling as giving teams some sort of unfair advantage that other conferences do not have. OSU is one of the favorites to reach the title game, and that schedule shows me a big reason why.

You're missing the point. The SEC stuff I'm talking about only applies to teams within that conference. Everyone knows Ohio State and their weak-ass B1G schedule gives them advantages over contenders from better leagues.

 

OK, but how is what the SEC does giving an unfair advantage that other teams do not enjoy? Look at the schedules of the SEC teams that went to the title games during the run. Those were not cakewalk schedules by any stretch of the imagination. And again Oregon, Ohio State, Notre Dame, etc could have beaten the SEC teams on the field but did not. Most times it wasn't close.

Again, I'm not referring to ANY teams outside the conference. I'm just referring to the situations where an SEC team might miss the league title game (and therefore a shot at the whole thing) due in large part to who their cross-division opponents are. That scheduling model also is part of the reason all those top SEC teams ended up ranked so high (because they don't play all the other good teams in the league), but I was focusing on the part where it affects who plays in the national championship.

 

I would expect this issue to crop up in the 14-team ACC and 14-team B1G going forward as well, just not to the extent that it plays into the national title picture, since no more than a couple of those teams have any realistic chance of being title contenders (for the moment, of course).

[NOLA]

Point taken. I just think that the highly ranked SEC teams end the season that way because they are that good, not simply because of scheduling quirks. Did anyone really have a doubt that a 1 loss Bama team was going to destroy an undefeated Notre Dame team last year? I think a case could be made for South Carolina being damn good this year, easy schedule or not, but we will have to wait and see. And I also think that you are seriously underestimating the strength of the 2nd tier in the SEC, ie Ole Miss or Vandy.

[E.J.]

OSU is going down Oct. 5th at Northwestern. Book it. Seriously though, their schedule this season is garbage. Their schedule last season was just as bad.

[Derwood]

OSU is going down Oct. 5th at Northwestern. Book it. Seriously though, their schedule this season is garbage. Their schedule last season was just as bad.

 

FWIW, everyone here in Columbus knows it's garbage, and the general consensus is that anything less than 12-0 is unforgivable because of it

[imb]

now the ncaa is after manziel for allegedly signing autographs for money. like, yeah, it's obviously against the rules, but it sure does suck that a legal adult gives away the right to his own [expletive] name just to play college football

[Guest]

@celebrityhottub It's possible Johnny Manziel is just an extremely athletic Gob Bluth.

[Guest]

@celebrityhottub It's possible Johnny Manziel is just an extremely athletic Gob Bluth.

 

Fantastic.

[NewUserName]

now the ncaa is after manziel for allegedly signing autographs for money. like, yeah, it's obviously against the rules, but it sure does suck that a legal adult gives away the right to his own [expletive] name just to play college football

He can chose to not play college football. I understand what you are saying but it is not like these rules are new or that Manziel needs the money.

[shnsajax]

Aggie being Aggie