Cubs interested in McCarthy and Marcum

[sneakypower]

it describes that he had an absurdly lucky ERA, completely out of line with everything else he's ever done

 

it's insane to argue 71 innings of 3.08 FIP/3.39 xFIP was a better or more valuable performance than 171 innings of 2.86/3.30

[scarey]

And by oft, I mean this year.

 

And 2011. And 2010. And 2009. And 2008. And 2007.

 

And like Harden, iirc, most of the problems are in the shoulder.

 

If you read the article that David posted (which I read quite a while ago and caused me to jump on his bandwagon), you'd find that any injuries prior to 2011 should be judged lightly. The guy has taken huge steps to improve his mechanics and to ensure he keeps a low pitch count.

 

He has had two injuries in 2011 and 2012 before getting a ball to the head. However, personally I think it's a risk worth taking for a reward that could be one of the best starting pitchers in the NL.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

So before he fixed his mechanics, he had arm problems every year. After he fixed his mechanics, he had arm problems every year.

[Clem Fandango]

He has had two injuries in 2011 and 2012 before getting a ball to the head. However, personally I think it's a risk worth taking for a reward that could be one of the best starting pitchers in the NL.

 

Agreed. McCarthy has been #1 on my offseason wish list for the Cubs FA targets.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

He has had two injuries in 2011 and 2012 before getting a ball to the head. However, personally I think it's a risk worth taking for a reward that could be one of the best starting pitchers in the NL.

 

Agreed. McCarthy has been #1 on my offseason wish list for the Cubs FA targets.

You have set the bar incredibly low.

[Clem Fandango]

He has had two injuries in 2011 and 2012 before getting a ball to the head. However, personally I think it's a risk worth taking for a reward that could be one of the best starting pitchers in the NL.

 

Agreed. McCarthy has been #1 on my offseason wish list for the Cubs FA targets.

You have set the bar incredibly low.

 

I'm keeping the bar within the realm of realistic targets.

[scarey]

So before he fixed his mechanics, he had arm problems every year. After he fixed his mechanics, he had arm problems every year.

 

 

Before the polio vaccine, cases of polio popped up every year. Since the polio vaccine, cases of polio pop up every year.

 

See what I did there?

[SouthSideRyan]

McCarthy's 2011 was better than just about anything Harden ever did.

 

Harden's 12 starts for the Cubs in '08 generated more bWAR than McCarthy's entire '11

 

lol at bWAR

 

It's much better than fWAR at describing what happened.

 

Wins are great at describing what happened, too. So are RBIs.

 

I'll take the one that's much better at describing how well the pitcher pitched.

 

You'll take the one that's much better at describing how well the pitcher would likely pitch if you replayed the season 1000 times.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

So before he fixed his mechanics, he had arm problems every year. After he fixed his mechanics, he had arm problems every year.

 

 

Before the polio vaccine, cases of polio popped up every year. Since the polio vaccine, cases of polio pop up every year.

 

See what I did there?

 

I do. I'm not sure why you did it or what sort of point you felt like you were making, but I see it.

[sneakypower]

You'll take the one that's much better at describing how well the pitcher would likely pitch if you replayed the season 1000 times.

if an OF robs a HR, did the pitcher do a good job against that hitter?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

You'll take the one that's much better at describing how well the pitcher would likely pitch if you replayed the season 1000 times.

if an OF robs a HR, did the pitcher do a good job against that hitter?

 

Depends. Was it a 330 foot fly ball down the line or a 401 footer to dead center?

 

If the pitcher hangs a slider right down the middle, and the batter misses it for strike three, did the pitcher do a good job?

[SABR Gamer]

This is a funny debate. Anyway, fWAR is honestly better than rWAR, but rWAR is still not that bad.

[toonsterwu]

Garza, McCarthy, Samardzija, Marcum, Wood ain't bad.

 

It will be in August when Wood is the only healthy/non-traded one.

 

So the Cubs are trading Shark now?

 

I've been pushing that idea since last summer, that the Cubs have to at least ponder dealing Shark. Shark feels like a part of the Castro/Rizzo next wave, but it's easy to forget that he'll be in his age 28 season. The organization isn't likely to compete next year, and 2014 seems a bit unrealistic as well. The system has a void right now, with thin upper levels and the bulk of prospects in the lower levels. Of note is the fact that the arms are even further down ... with many of the more promising arms not yet at A ball, or just entering it.

 

You don't haphazardly deal Shark, but I think they have to at least ponder it if he gets off to a hot start and shows last year wasn't a fluke of sorts. Dealing Shark/Garza (and maybe a FA starter signed to a short term deal) could jump start rebuilding by potentially getting a few quality upper level guys, guys that can develop with Castro/Rizzo while the the lower levels develop.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

You don't haphazardly deal Shark, but I think they have to at least ponder it if he gets off to a hot start and shows last year wasn't a fluke of sorts.

 

Assuming we're terrible in 2013 and are dealing pieecs, that's what I'm thinking. If he gets off 50 good innings where the ERA matches the peripherals, that's got to be the definition of a sell-high opportunity.

[SouthSideRyan]

I mean, yeah, I guess it makes sense from the implied plan, but that just ensures yet another [expletive] sandwich come 2014.

[rawaction]

Yeah I'd trade Shark in a heartbeat if it means further strengthening the upper levels

[BeerHere]

Agreed but I would hope that the FO would look to add pitching ahead of hitters. Most teams would probably say the same thing, but the lack of good pitching in the upper leaves of this organization is frightening.

[toonsterwu]

Agreed but I would hope that the FO would look to add pitching ahead of hitters. Most teams would probably say the same thing, but the lack of good pitching in the upper leaves of this organization is frightening.

 

I think everyone would hope that pitching was the priority. Ideally, upper level pitching, but upside is needed, more than anything.

 

I mean, there's only a very, very thin group of guys with front of the rotation potential, and Vizcaino has big durability question marks. After that, Ben Wells has to show he's healthy, regain velocity, and continue his improvement with his breaking ball. That said, there were many that didn't buy Wells as a 2, 2/3 type starter anyways. Underwood/Maples have big time stuff, but I still am bothered with Maples mechanically, and both are far away. Paniagua is far away, but there's hope that he moves fast. Beyond that? I'm really running out of names of guys that have high ceiling potential. Peralta, but the consistent inconsistency makes one wonder. Arias has the big time fastball, big frame, but a lot of secondary work.

 

It's a scary thin group of high ceiling arms. I'm not ready to put McNeil/Blackburn up there yet.

[Guest]

Agreed but I would hope that the FO would look to add pitching ahead of hitters. Most teams would probably say the same thing, but the lack of good pitching in the upper leaves of this organization is frightening.

 

I think everyone would hope that pitching was the priority. Ideally, upper level pitching, but upside is needed, more than anything.

 

I mean, there's only a very, very thin group of guys with front of the rotation potential, and Vizcaino has big durability question marks. After that, Ben Wells has to show he's healthy, regain velocity, and continue his improvement with his breaking ball. That said, there were many that didn't buy Wells as a 2, 2/3 type starter anyways. Underwood/Maples have big time stuff, but I still am bothered with Maples mechanically, and both are far away. Paniagua is far away, but there's hope that he moves fast. Beyond that? I'm really running out of names of guys that have high ceiling potential. Peralta, but the consistent inconsistency makes one wonder. Arias has the big time fastball, big frame, but a lot of secondary work.

 

It's a scary thin group of high ceiling arms. I'm not ready to put McNeil/Blackburn up there yet.

You left off Johnson.

[davell]

I've got a feeling Paniagua starts in Daytona, sees plenty of time in Tennessee and becomes a mid 2014 arrival.

[toonsterwu]

Agreed but I would hope that the FO would look to add pitching ahead of hitters. Most teams would probably say the same thing, but the lack of good pitching in the upper leaves of this organization is frightening.

 

I think everyone would hope that pitching was the priority. Ideally, upper level pitching, but upside is needed, more than anything.

 

I mean, there's only a very, very thin group of guys with front of the rotation potential, and Vizcaino has big durability question marks. After that, Ben Wells has to show he's healthy, regain velocity, and continue his improvement with his breaking ball. That said, there were many that didn't buy Wells as a 2, 2/3 type starter anyways. Underwood/Maples have big time stuff, but I still am bothered with Maples mechanically, and both are far away. Paniagua is far away, but there's hope that he moves fast. Beyond that? I'm really running out of names of guys that have high ceiling potential. Peralta, but the consistent inconsistency makes one wonder. Arias has the big time fastball, big frame, but a lot of secondary work.

 

It's a scary thin group of high ceiling arms. I'm not ready to put McNeil/Blackburn up there yet.

You left off Johnson.

 

I've never bought Johnson as anything more than a mid-rotation guy. I hope I'm dead wrong, but I really don't feel front of the rotation potential with Johnson right now. I'm not suggesting any of the above guys will be front of the rotation type, 2, 2/3 types ... and I certainly recognize there's a bit of SNTS/Unknown raw guy snydrome, but I think their ceilings are a touch higher.

 

But that's me, and I hope I'm dead wrong on Pierce.

[Guest]

i've developed this vaccine for canine pepilepsy

[BeerHere]

i've developed this vaccine for canine pepilepsy

pupilespsy would have been funnier