Re: 2012-13 Chicago Bulls Thread

[Banedon]

The Rose handwringing is hilarious. Some of this is going to be funny to look back on next season.

[KingCubsFan]

And since we're on the topic of Rose, is there a huge difference between Cutler and Rose's "body language"? Neither shows a ton of emotion, but yet Cutler gets eviscerated for not showing emotion and Rose gets a pass?

 

The whole thing is confusing.

Besides the fact that Rose is from Chicago, I think that also has to do with the media's typical narrative that a QB should be the emotional leader of a football team, and football is typically a high-emotion game. Point guards, on the other hand, are supposed to be a calm, calculating presence who set up other members of the team for success. Successful point guards like John Stockton or Jason Kidd rarely showed much emotion on the court.

[Thed Hoyerstein]

I don't think it's been permanently scarred. If LeBron can recover from the Decision backlash

 

He hasn't

 

I guess to a certain extent, but you can't say that the amount of vitriol against LeBron is anywhere near his first season in Miami. And it seems, or least from my perspective, that most people have begun to appreciate LeBron's talents as opposed to his free agency PR fiasco.

[UMFan83]

The Rose handwringing is hilarious. Some of this is going to be funny to look back on next season.

 

I know....I keep telling myself to collect the best quotes from RealGM but I'm too lazy.

[USSoccer]

The Rose handwringing is hilarious. Some of this is going to be funny to look back on next season.

 

Not really. It's crap that it will all be forgotten by next March.

 

People will support him, because he's a really good player who plays for the team they support, but to pretend like Rose and his people have handled this properly and haven't dicked around the club, his teammates and the fanbase is horseshit.

 

Rose and his brother and team deserve every single bit of criticism and scorn they get. Nobody should be bigger than the club.

 

I rattled off the Chicago sports figures who got torched for far less serious idiocy, but if Rose were a soccer player in Europe he'd be persona non grata with the team and its fans for a very long time.

Edited May 3, 2013 by USSoccer

[Derwood]

The Rose handwringing is hilarious. Some of this is going to be funny to look back on next season.

 

I think the perception that he doesn't care to play is important. Frankly speaking, he's being a terrible teammate right now. I wonder if any free agents will want to play with him.

[Guest]

I don't think it's been permanently scarred. If LeBron can recover from the Decision backlash

 

He hasn't

 

I guess to a certain extent, but you can't say that the amount of vitriol against LeBron is anywhere near his first season in Miami. And it seems, or least from my perspective, that most people have begun to appreciate LeBron's talents as opposed to his free agency PR fiasco.

 

A lot of the vitriol against James went away when he won a championship.

[Banedon]

The Rose handwringing is hilarious. Some of this is going to be funny to look back on next season.

 

Not really. It's crap that it will all be forgotten by next March.

 

People will support him, because he's a really good player who plays for the team they support, but to pretend like Rose and his people have handled this properly and haven't dicked around the club, his teammates and the fanbase is [expletive].

 

Rose and his brother and team deserve every single bit of criticism and scorn they get. Nobody should be bigger than the club.

 

I rattled off the Chicago sports figures who got torched for far less serious idiocy, but if Rose were a soccer player in Europe he'd be persona non grata with the team and its fans for a very long time.

 

Honestly, your posts are going to be one of the primary ones I look back at next season. Who the hell cares what Rose's perception would be if he were a soccer player in Europe?

 

You wanna make silly comparisons, lets do it. Michael Jordan skipped a season and a half so he could play minor league baseball. Rose can't miss a season to get his ACL to a place he's comfortable with?

 

Sorry, but Rose really doesn't have to be concerned about your feelings, or Joe Internet's feelings. He knows damn well that fans are fickle, and that as long as he comes back and plays at the same level or better than he was at, they'll be back on his side.

 

The Rose handwringing is hilarious. Some of this is going to be funny to look back on next season.

 

I think the perception that he doesn't care to play is important. Frankly speaking, he's being a terrible teammate right now. I wonder if any free agents will want to play with him.

 

I love that fans like to call him a terrible teammate, while his teammates and even his opponents all say exactly the opposite.

[USSoccer]

The Rose handwringing is hilarious. Some of this is going to be funny to look back on next season.

 

Not really. It's crap that it will all be forgotten by next March.

 

People will support him, because he's a really good player who plays for the team they support, but to pretend like Rose and his people have handled this properly and haven't dicked around the club, his teammates and the fanbase is [expletive].

 

Rose and his brother and team deserve every single bit of criticism and scorn they get. Nobody should be bigger than the club.

 

I rattled off the Chicago sports figures who got torched for far less serious idiocy, but if Rose were a soccer player in Europe he'd be persona non grata with the team and its fans for a very long time.

 

Honestly, your posts are going to be one of the primary ones I look back at next season. Who the hell cares what Rose's perception would be if he were a soccer player in Europe?

 

You wanna make silly comparisons, lets do it. Michael Jordan skipped a season and a half so he could play minor league baseball. Rose can't miss a season to get his ACL to a place he's comfortable with?

 

Sorry, but Rose really doesn't have to be concerned about your feelings, or Joe Internet's feelings. He knows damn well that fans are fickle, and that as long as he comes back and plays at the same level or better than he was at, they'll be back on his side.

 

The Rose handwringing is hilarious. Some of this is going to be funny to look back on next season.

 

I think the perception that he doesn't care to play is important. Frankly speaking, he's being a terrible teammate right now. I wonder if any free agents will want to play with him.

 

I love that fans like to call him a terrible teammate, while his teammates and even his opponents all say exactly the opposite.

 

 

-Just because fans are fickle doesn't make what he's doing right. If he made up his mind not to play, he should have closed the door on it weeks ago. Instead he's been vague about it, while playing hard in practice, while his idiot brother made public statements saying that his brother shouldn't come back and play because the roster wasn't good enough. He's bringing it on himself, and it's difficult to have a lot of respect for someone who's flaky like that. Feel free to reference my posts next year. It's not a contradiction to support him and the team next year while at the same time thinking he's either a soft douche, or a complete ass for pulling this crap over the past 8-10 weeks.

 

-Michael Jordan got flak for bailing after 1993, but he won championships prior to that, and then came back and won 3 more. It's not a valid comparison. Jordan never pretended he was maybe going to come back in 1994. Jordan's manager never said he was going to play baseball because the roster wasn't good enough.. That's the difference. Derrick Rose's ACL has been healed for months. The final "mental" hurdle is to come back and play; that's the only way he's going to get over that.

 

-What players say in public, and what they actually think are two very, very different things.

Edited May 3, 2013 by USSoccer

[jersey cubs fan]

You wanna make silly comparisons, lets do it. Michael Jordan skipped a season and a half so he could play minor league baseball. Rose can't miss a season to get his ACL to a place he's comfortable with?

 

But Jordan retired, while Rose is just sitting out because he's uncomfortable. He's healthy enough to play but doesn't want to. He's under contract, getting paid, taking up salary cap space but he just doesn't want to play. They have to handle him with kid gloves because that is the nature of having a star in the NBA. But don't pretend that fans don't have the right to be upset that he's sitting out with a case of the uncomfortables.

[Banedon]

-Just because fans are fickle doesn't make what he's doing right. If he made up his mind not to play, he should have closed the door on it weeks ago. He's bringing it on himself, and it's difficult to have a lot of respect for someone who's flaky like that. Feel free to reference my posts next year.

 

-Michael Jordan got flak for bailing after 1993, but he won championships prior to that, and then came back and won 3 more. It's not a valid comparison. Jordan never pretended he was maybe going to come back in 1994. That's the difference. Derrick Rose's ACL has been healed for months. The final "mental" hurdle is to come back and play; that's the only way he's going to get over that.

 

-What players say in public, and what they actually think are two very, very different things.

 

You're just assuming so much though. Who says he made up his mind not to play? Maybe he didn't. You don't know, I don't know. Your rage and indignation at the whole thing is just so funny. He's a 24yo superstar that wants to take the time to make sure his injury is fully healed, and that he is back at the playing level he wants to be at. I'm perfectly ok with that, and if anything, I respect him more for not caring what fans, talk radio, or columnists think he should be doing. He's doing what's right for him.

 

Yes, what they say in public and what they think may be very different, but you're presuming to know what he's thinking.

 

And of course the Jordan comparison was ridiculous, like I said it was. But the Rose discussion in this thread has been far from level headed, so I thought I'd throw out a bit of hyperbole too.

[Andy]

Whatever Rose's motives, he has to be internally cursing the fact that virtually every other player on the team (except, ironically, the previously made of glass Boozer) is dealing with nagging injuries or getting the flu, because all that is sort of fueling the growing discontent among fans.

[USSoccer]

-Just because fans are fickle doesn't make what he's doing right. If he made up his mind not to play, he should have closed the door on it weeks ago. He's bringing it on himself, and it's difficult to have a lot of respect for someone who's flaky like that. Feel free to reference my posts next year.

 

-Michael Jordan got flak for bailing after 1993, but he won championships prior to that, and then came back and won 3 more. It's not a valid comparison. Jordan never pretended he was maybe going to come back in 1994. That's the difference. Derrick Rose's ACL has been healed for months. The final "mental" hurdle is to come back and play; that's the only way he's going to get over that.

 

-What players say in public, and what they actually think are two very, very different things.

 

You're just assuming so much though. Who says he made up his mind not to play? Maybe he didn't. You don't know, I don't know. Your rage and indignation at the whole thing is just so funny. He's a 24yo superstar that wants to take the time to make sure his injury is fully healed, and that he is back at the playing level he wants to be at. I'm perfectly ok with that, and if anything, I respect him more for not caring what fans, talk radio, or columnists think he should be doing. He's doing what's right for him.

 

Yes, what they say in public and what they think may be very different, but you're presuming to know what he's thinking.

 

And of course the Jordan comparison was ridiculous, like I said it was. But the Rose discussion in this thread has been far from level headed, so I thought I'd throw out a bit of hyperbole too.

 

That bolded part is completely irrelevant in terms of how the fanbase should feel. The organization's hands are tied because he's a star and you have to kiss ass to keep stars in the NBA, but the fact that he's a superstar doesn't entitle him to arbitrary timelines for an injury recovery.

 

And if he wants to take that time, fine. Just shut it down and make it publicly clear. Don't play 5v5 and 1v1 in practice and kick everyone's ass, and then say that you're worried about muscle memory (which is what the excuse du jour is now) and that's why you aren't playing 5v5 in front of 20,000 people instead of the Berto Center. Don't let you brother play Worldwise Wes and make a clear connection between you not coming back and the perception that the team can't beat Miami. That's cheap crap.

 

There's nothing to be respected here. His ACL isn't somehow more special than the other athletes that suffer the same injury and are all back in the same timeframe barring setback. Iman Shumpert tore his on the same day and has been playing for months. There's a defined rehab path, one that involves playing actual games as the final step, which he's decided to ignore because .

 

Again, nobody should be bigger than the club, and he deserves the criticism he's getting x100. I'm sure Nate Robinson would have rather not been throwing up between timeouts, and going and diving on the floor for loose balls and doing everything possible to help the team win. Ditto Gibson, ditto Noah, and ditto Deng and Hinrich prior to last night. They are trying. They are the ones that deserve actual respect from the fanbase. Not Derrick Rose and his fully healed nee.

[Cubswin11]

I think if Garza was medically cleared 2 months ago to pitch and was down in EXST throwing his fastball in the low-mid 90's and looking good but he didn't want to come up and pitch in the majors yet because he wasn't mentally prepared to throw his slider or something he'd be catching more hell from the Chicago media than Rose is/has.

[Wilson A2000]

LeBron 's friend gave him bad advice. Reggie Rose is too. Having friends as agents/managers isn 't usually a good mix.

[USSoccer]

I think if Garza was medically cleared 2 months ago to pitch and was down in EXST throwing his fastball in the low-mid 90's and looking good but he didn't want to come up and pitch in the majors yet because he wasn't mentally prepared to throw his slider or something he'd be catching more hell from the Chicago media than Rose is/has.

 

Our idiot media slayed Mark Prior and Kerry Wood for years.

[Cubswin11]

I think if Garza was medically cleared 2 months ago to pitch and was down in EXST throwing his fastball in the low-mid 90's and looking good but he didn't want to come up and pitch in the majors yet because he wasn't mentally prepared to throw his slider or something he'd be catching more hell from the Chicago media than Rose is/has.

 

Our idiot media slayed Mark Prior and Kerry Wood for years.

Oh yeah, another great example. I just used Garza because he's more relative, currently is injured

[jersey cubs fan]

I think if Garza was medically cleared 2 months ago to pitch and was down in EXST throwing his fastball in the low-mid 90's and looking good but he didn't want to come up and pitch in the majors yet because he wasn't mentally prepared to throw his slider or something he'd be catching more hell from the Chicago media than Rose is/has.

 

Our idiot media slayed Mark Prior and Kerry Wood for years.

 

They were criticized for getting hurt in the first place.

[Banedon]

That bolded part is completely irrelevant in terms of how the fanbase should feel. The organization's hands are tied because he's a star and you have to kiss ass to keep stars in the NBA, but the fact that he's a superstar doesn't entitle him to arbitrary timelines for an injury recovery.

 

And if he wants to take that time, fine. Just shut it down and make it publicly clear. Don't play 5v5 and 1v1 in practice and kick everyone's ass, and then say that you're worried about muscle memory (which is what the excuse du jour is now) and that's why you aren't playing 5v5 in front of 20,000 people instead of the Berto Center. Don't let you brother play Worldwise Wes and make a clear connection between you not coming back and the perception that the team can't beat Miami. That's cheap crap.

 

There's nothing to be respected here. His ACL isn't somehow more special than the other athletes that suffer the same injury and are all back in the same timeframe barring setback. Iman Shumpert tore his on the same day and has been playing for months. There's a defined rehab path, one that involves playing actual games as the final step, which he's decided to ignore because .

 

Again, nobody should be bigger than the club, and he deserves the criticism he's getting x100. I'm sure Nate Robinson would have rather not been throwing up between timeouts, and going and diving on the floor for loose balls and doing everything possible to help the team win. Ditto Gibson, ditto Noah, and ditto Deng and Hinrich prior to last night. They are trying. They are the ones that deserve actual respect from the fanbase. Not Derrick Rose and his fully healed nee.

 

Iman Shumpert has been terrible compared to the way he was pre-injury. With the exception of 3pt shooting, every stat is down from pre-injury. Rose is taking longer, yes. But the point is for him to be able to come back and not have to be a shadow of the player he was pre-injury. Will that actually happen? There's no telling of course, but if him taking a little longer to get right...what's being hurt by that? Maybe the Bulls are out of the playoffs a round earlier than they would have otherwise?

 

You're getting back to ridiculousness here. Comparing Rose's ACL to Nate Robinson's flu symptoms? Yep, that's the same. None of the guys you listed are dealing with an injury of the severity that Rose's was. And frankly, I'd rather that Deng had sat, maybe gotten surgery to get his wrist right. I'd rather that Noah had sat for longer and not tried to play through his plantar fascitis, so we could have gotten more of 100% Noah instead of some of the gimpy games we've gotten. Playing through injury isn't always the right move.

 

I will agree with you that the PR aspect of all of this should've been handled better. Reggie, of course, should shut the [expletive] up. And both Rose and the Bulls should've allowed more for the possibility that he misses the season right from the start.

 

But the vilification is way WAY over the top. Rose didn't kill anyone, or rape anyone, or wreck his sportscar on Lakeshore, or whatever other endless amount of stupidity that athletes are forgiven for. The only difference is that he hasn't been back on the court yet, to do all those great things that make people forgive athletes' mistakes. As soon he does, all this will be forgotten.

[USSoccer]

That bolded part is completely irrelevant in terms of how the fanbase should feel. The organization's hands are tied because he's a star and you have to kiss ass to keep stars in the NBA, but the fact that he's a superstar doesn't entitle him to arbitrary timelines for an injury recovery.

 

And if he wants to take that time, fine. Just shut it down and make it publicly clear. Don't play 5v5 and 1v1 in practice and kick everyone's ass, and then say that you're worried about muscle memory (which is what the excuse du jour is now) and that's why you aren't playing 5v5 in front of 20,000 people instead of the Berto Center. Don't let you brother play Worldwise Wes and make a clear connection between you not coming back and the perception that the team can't beat Miami. That's cheap crap.

 

There's nothing to be respected here. His ACL isn't somehow more special than the other athletes that suffer the same injury and are all back in the same timeframe barring setback. Iman Shumpert tore his on the same day and has been playing for months. There's a defined rehab path, one that involves playing actual games as the final step, which he's decided to ignore because .

 

Again, nobody should be bigger than the club, and he deserves the criticism he's getting x100. I'm sure Nate Robinson would have rather not been throwing up between timeouts, and going and diving on the floor for loose balls and doing everything possible to help the team win. Ditto Gibson, ditto Noah, and ditto Deng and Hinrich prior to last night. They are trying. They are the ones that deserve actual respect from the fanbase. Not Derrick Rose and his fully healed nee.

 

Iman Shumpert has been terrible compared to the way he was pre-injury. With the exception of 3pt shooting, every stat is down from pre-injury. Rose is taking longer, yes. But the point is for him to be able to come back and not have to be a shadow of the player he was pre-injury. Will that actually happen? There's no telling of course, but if him taking a little longer to get right...what's being hurt by that? Maybe the Bulls are out of the playoffs a round earlier than they would have otherwise?

 

You're getting back to ridiculousness here. Comparing Rose's ACL to Nate Robinson's flu symptoms? Yep, that's the same. None of the guys you listed are dealing with an injury of the severity that Rose's was. And frankly, I'd rather that Deng had sat, maybe gotten surgery to get his wrist right. I'd rather that Noah had sat for longer and not tried to play through his plantar fascitis, so we could have gotten more of 100% Noah instead of some of the gimpy games we've gotten. Playing through injury isn't always the right move.

 

I will agree with you that the PR aspect of all of this should've been handled better. Reggie, of course, should shut the [expletive] up. And both Rose and the Bulls should've allowed more for the possibility that he misses the season right from the start.

 

But the vilification is way WAY over the top. Rose didn't kill anyone, or rape anyone, or wreck his sportscar on Lakeshore, or whatever other endless amount of stupidity that athletes are forgiven for. The only difference is that he hasn't been back on the court yet, to do all those great things that make people forgive athletes. As soon he does, all this will be forgotten.

 

 

I'm not saying it won't be forgiven or forgotten. Of course it will. Fanbases have short memories for great players. But let's not pretend for a second that this is okay, because it isn't.

 

The point of listing all his current teammates that are "playing at shadows of the players they typically are" is to draw a contrast. Rose isn't still injured. His ACL didn't tear 6 months ago. It will have been a year on 5/12. He's healthy. He no longer has a severe injury. Like I said, his teammates with actual, existing ailments and injuries are the ones that deserve respect, because they're actually playing and trying. He could have come back when he was ready in mid March or early April, and gotten the rust off that way. He could be playing 15-20 minutes off the bench to help his team right now. All he's succeeded in doing is putting off his period of adjustment to next season. It's self serving.

 

For you to state that Rose shouldn't be ripped for holding the team hostage to his idiotic standard of recovery is crazyballs. He's not being vilified. Jay Cutler was vilified (actually hurt). Prior and Wood were/are vilified (hurt and hurt). Aramis Ramirez was vilified (stupidly). Sammy Sosa was vilified (stupidly). Derrick Rose has been treated with kid gloves.

Edited May 3, 2013 by USSoccer

[jersey cubs fan]

Playing through injury isn't always the right move.

 

No it isn't, but not playing through non-injury is always the wrong move.

 

But the vilification is way WAY over the top. Rose didn't kill anyone, or rape anyone, or wreck his sportscar on Lakeshore, or whatever other endless amount of stupidity that athletes are forgiven for. The only difference is that he hasn't been back on the court yet, to do all those great things that make people forgive athletes' mistakes. As soon he does, all this will be forgotten.

 

I think the vilification has been way under the bottom. The excuse making has been astounding to me. I'm surprised he's getting such a free pass.

[Banedon]

The Chicago Bulls' Luol Deng reportedly had a spinal tap Thursday to test for viral meningitis.

 

The test was negative, according to CSNChicago.com, but Deng was not well enough to play in Game 6.

[Rex Buckingham]

The Chicago Bulls' Luol Deng reportedly had a spinal tap Thursday to test for viral meningitis.

 

The test was negative, according to CSNChicago.com, but Deng was not well enough to play in Game 6.

 

Can you imagine what this thread would look like if Deng had played after getting a spinal tap?

[USSoccer]

The Chicago Bulls' Luol Deng reportedly had a spinal tap Thursday to test for viral meningitis.

 

The test was negative, according to CSNChicago.com, but Deng was not well enough to play in Game 6.

 

Can you imagine what this thread would look like if Deng had played after getting a spinal tap?

 

The same as it looks now?

[apete6]

We won't know what his teammates really think/thought of the situation until some of them leave the Bulls. When Nate is on the Pacers next year, I'm sure he'll tell everyone he can that he thought Derrick was being a bitch. Same with other guys. If they amnesty Boozer, he'll let people know how big of a bitch everyone thought Derrick was being.

 

For now, they are saying what they have to say.