Brett Jackson

[XZero771679666304]

Except Jackson isn't the Cubs' top prospect, nor has anyone denied that the strikeouts are a huge concern. Kyle, as he is wont to do, made a few rash and hyperbolic remarks earlier, which got everyone's goat.

 

Everything I said was dead on and has been proven out. The only goats I get are people who like having their goats gotten.

 

Except the parts I said were hyperbole and you admitted were hyperbole.

[XZero771679666304]

so in this thread, kyle talks about what we were all talking about in the minor league threads in may

 

Pretty much. Some people were predicting this for BJax well before this year.

 

Kyle may be right with his points about Jackson, but he's hardly blazing a trail here.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

so in this thread, kyle talks about what we were all talking about in the minor league threads in may

 

In this thread, Kyle talks about a current Chicago Cub and his interesting performance. A lot of other people seem really fascinated with talking about Kyle.

 

Everyone agrees Brett Jackson is striking out too much, but I think there's some interesting nuance within that.

 

Will he strike out at a similar rate to some of the highest K hitters in the league, can he cut it below that, or will he continue to strike out at an unprecedented rate?

 

Will it begin to compromise his power, or can he still show 15-20 HR power?

 

Is the 15% BB rate going to be able to continue? That's much higher than he was posting in the minors, but it's proving remarkably persistent.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Except Jackson isn't the Cubs' top prospect, nor has anyone denied that the strikeouts are a huge concern. Kyle, as he is wont to do, made a few rash and hyperbolic remarks earlier, which got everyone's goat.

 

Everything I said was dead on and has been proven out. The only goats I get are people who like having their goats gotten.

 

Except the parts I said were hyperbole and you admitted were hyperbole.

 

That certainly sounds like something I would do, but I went back over every page of the thread and can't find what you are talking about.

[SABR Gamer]

This thread is basically Kyle being realistic and everyone else getting pissed that he's pointing out a negative fact about their favorite team's top prospect.

 

 

 

Except Jackson isn't the Cubs' top prospect, nor has anyone denied that the strikeouts are a huge concern. Kyle, as he is wont to do, made a few rash and hyperbolic remarks earlier, which got everyone's goat.

 

But things aren't looking too bright for BJax, I'm afraid. Unless there is some heretofore unnoticed mechanical flaw can be found, I'm not optimistic.

 

 

Yeah, he isn't the top prospect anymore because of many of the things we have discussed in this thread.

 

Even AFTER we got Rizzo, some still had him as our #1 prospect before the season.

 

Also, I meant it as "he is one of the the team's top prospects" not THE top prospect. Either way, my point doesn't really change. People were hoping for a borderline all-star and we have what looks like a 4th/5th outfielder. I am a bit disappointed, but it's not like we weren't cautioned.

[jersey cubs fan]

Yeah, he isn't the top prospect anymore because of many of the things we have discussed in this thread.

 

Even AFTER we got Rizzo, some still had him as our #1 prospect before the season.

 

Also, I meant it as "he is one of the the team's top prospects" not THE top prospect. Either way, my point doesn't really change. People were hoping for a borderline all-star and we have what looks like a 4th/5th outfielder. I am a bit disappointed, but it's not like we weren't cautioned.

 

Your point does not stand because his struggles have caused people who pay attention to significantly reduce their expectations for Jackson and he has fallen down many a list. Kyle isn't pointing out anything that everybody else doesn't already know.

[SABR Gamer]

Yeah, he isn't the top prospect anymore because of many of the things we have discussed in this thread.

 

Even AFTER we got Rizzo, some still had him as our #1 prospect before the season.

 

Also, I meant it as "he is one of the the team's top prospects" not THE top prospect. Either way, my point doesn't really change. People were hoping for a borderline all-star and we have what looks like a 4th/5th outfielder. I am a bit disappointed, but it's not like we weren't cautioned.

 

Your point does not stand because his struggles have caused people who pay attention to significantly reduce their expectations for Jackson and he has fallen down many a list. Kyle isn't pointing out anything that everybody else doesn't already know.

 

 

Doesn't a drastically reduced expectation due to his play this year kind of imply he has been a disappointment?

 

Also, yeah I know he isn't, I never said he was. I just said that the people getting pissed at Kyle is silly because Kyle has just been pointing out the obvious and they are mad because it's a prospect from their own team. Also, why are people getting mad at him when they already know what he is saying is pretty accurate?

 

Also, I am well aware of the widespread belief (pre 2012) that Jackson had a high likelihood of busting due to his flaws. I know that isn't a recent development. I am pretty sure Tim had him ranked lower than most due to that belief and has been saying for over a year that he thought this would probably happen.

 

Also, just because we have recently (or gradually and not so recently) lowered our expectations doesn't mean it's not kind of a bummer that this kid, at least so far, is looking like he landed massively short of his potential due to a glaring weakness. We are clearly fans more than we are talent evaluators, it sucks when your team's time frame for success gets pushed back due to this as well.

[Guest]

People got irritated at Kyle because he carried on for months with sensationalist and absolutist rhetoric before finally landing in the same spot that everyone else had been all along. This is a group that took to counting how many times Brett had "brettjacksoned" in a given day by summer, I don't know if claiming they're overly sensitive to a negative opinion is really the road to pursue.

[davell]

I'm sure the K rate can and will drop somewhat. Hell, he's probably K'ing around the same rate as most pitchers do. The issue though is whether the lack of K's lead to less walks as well(very likely)and whether he's hitting pitchers pitches, which leads to not a lot of success once the balls in play. The more agressive approach could lead to more struggles. I hope he can just keep the same approach and get the rate down 10%. We'll have something then. Although the numbers have never been in favor of that scenario.

[davell]

Yeah, we started no-K watches in the 6th inning for Brett and I think we threw a party the one game he finished without K'ing in.

[SABR Gamer]

People got irritated at Kyle because he carried on for months with sensationalist and absolutist rhetoric before finally landing in the same spot that everyone else had been all along. This is a group that took to counting how many times Brett had "brettjacksoned" in a given day by summer, I don't know if claiming they're overly sensitive to a negative opinion is really the road to pursue.

 

The people who are talking about "brettjacksoning" aren't necessarily the same people who are overly sensitive. I'm not lumping everyone in this thread into one group. My comments were just in reference to those who WERE overly sensitive to it, not claiming that everyone was overly sensitive.

[Sammy Sofa]

Who besides the meatballier people here didn't have vocal concerns about Jackson before he was called up?

[SABR Gamer]

Who besides the meatballier people here didn't have vocal concerns about Jackson before he was called up?

 

LOL, what does that have to do with whether or not you reacted negatively to Jackson's criticism?

 

Just because you may have vocalized concern doesn't get you off the hook for all future, dumb, defensive comments. I'll admit I haven't re-read this thread in a while and I'll go back and try to find some examples of what I am talking about.

 

ETA: Most of this thread is actually pretty solid back and forth discussing whether or not Brett can improve, so I may have exaggerated the negative response a bit, however there are still a few name calling and anger towards Kyle throughout the thread just for talking about sample sizes and K-rate stabilizing. I just found that to be silly.

Edited September 21, 2012 by New York Cubs Fan

[Hairyducked Idiot]

People got irritated at Kyle because he carried on for months with sensationalist and absolutist rhetoric before finally landing in the same spot that everyone else had been all along.

 

In general or about Brett Jackson?

 

This is a group that took to counting how many times Brett had "brettjacksoned" in a given day by summer, I don't know if claiming they're overly sensitive to a negative opinion is really the road to pursue.

 

That was mostly me. A couple of other people started doing it too, but many of the posters asked that it be stopped.

Edited September 21, 2012 by Hairyducked Idiot

[Sammy Sofa]

What on Earth are you babbling about? Making fun of Kyle and his waffling ways isn't being overly defensive of Brett Jackson.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

What on Earth are you babbling about? Making fun of Kyle and his waffling ways isn't being overly defensive of Brett Jackson.

 

He still can't hit. There will be no waffle. Unless he starts to hit.

[Sammy Sofa]

No, the waffle will be pressed when more people post negatively about Jackson, as in basically giving up on him. Then it's time for the patented Kyle-waffle.

[SABR Gamer]

What on Earth are you babbling about? Making fun of Kyle and his waffling ways isn't being overly defensive of Brett Jackson.

 

People calling Kyle names because he said that 100 PA was a good amount to judge K rate? I am getting to the point where I am no longer interested in talking about whether or not people reacted negatively to Kyle. Back to Brett Jackson.

[Sammy Sofa]

People calling Kyle names because he said that 100 PA was a good amount to judge K rate?

 

That was about 95% just because he's Kyle.

 

I am getting to the point where I am no longer interested in talking about whether or not people reacted negatively to Kyle. Back to Brett Jackson.

 

HE SUCKS.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Getting back on topic, here's a list I thought was interesting.

 

Five players own the top 12 spots on the all-time strikeout list: Reynolds, Stubbs, Dunn, Cust and Howard. They struck out between 30% and 35% during their record-setting seasons.

 

Their AAA K-rates:

Reynolds skipped AAA, but struck out 25.1% of the time at AA

Stubbs struck out 22% of the time in AAA

Cust struck out 26.2% of the time in AAA (or 28.8% if you prefer just to look at his first stint and not his career as a AAA veteran)

Howard struck out 26.1% of the time in AAA

 

Brett Jackson struck out 32.5% of the time in AAA.

 

He's really an unprecedented strikeout talent. If we're really going to tank and give him the starting job next season and he somehow keeps it for a full year, we might see 250 Ks.

[davell]

I'd at least like to think any name calling of Kyle, is in complete jest. Sure, there's been times when others have gotten hell thrown down on them here. But Kyle? And this? Nah, Kyle's respected here and brings life to a place that's starved for baseball conversation in a shitty year. Waffle away, Kyle. Not to mention, we want the waffle, becauae nothing Kyle has said is wrong. The waffle, if it occurs with Brett, will be glorious because it will mean Brett has given a legit reason to get excited about.

[biittner77]

Regardless of any "plans" to tank the season, I find it hard to accept the idea that CF is Jackson's job to lose. If they're not trying to win, they already have other options in CF and could easily afford to start him at AAA to see if he's made any progress on the contact front.

 

What do they do with Jackson over the Winter? Does he play in a winter league? Would it be too humiliating to send him to AZ?

[davell]

He may actually benefit from some time off. No clue, but he's pressed all year obviously. As long as they even get a Ryan Sweeney type as a backup plan, I'm OK with going into whats likely another throw away season with him as the incumbent, because of the potential upside involved.

[neely crenshaw]

A lot of these scenarios simply don't make sense, unless some of you are trying to say the front office is incompetent.

We have to develop talent. We, as fans, had better hope as many of these prospects "turn out" or we are looking at either a couple more years of this type of ball or wholesale spending (which they say is not the route to go).

We have very few prospects that are even close. After this crop, we are looking at 2014 or later for most known names to arrive...and that's just to see if they can play.

I look for them (FO) to do whatever is in the best interests of Jackson(and all the prospects) as far as development. If that's playing everyday at the major league level, (even if a vet is slightly better) he'll play everyday. If it's to start at AAA to refine a few things,it'll be there. Bottom line we have to trust that we finally have an organization that has a clue and cross our fingers because if a lot of the kids that are close don't become at least become solid major leaguers, it puts us even further behind in building at the major league level.

[Prizefight]

Completely overhauling his swing this winter to cut down on the K's

 

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/05/cubs-prospect-brett-jackson-has-completely-overhauled-his-swing/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

No real thoughts. We'll see I guess