Greinke to the Angels

[toonsterwu]

Segura, Ariel Pena, and John Hellweg. Solid return.

 

Really? I think that's a pretty piss poor return for an ace like Greinke, even a rental. I'm not nearly as high on Segura as many, I guess. Hellweg and Pena seem ... decent, but nothing exceptional. Put it another way - I think they got 3 B, B- types, and for an ace like Greinke, I think this is an absolute steal for the Angels to not have to give up Cowart or Richards.

 

Edit: I know they wanted to shoot for a middle infielder in this trade, and it's possible Segura was the best they could get, but still ... I just don't think this is a good return, even accounting for that factor.

 

i think greinke being an "ace" is pretty debatable

 

He does have ace stuff, and just glancing at fangraphs right now, his xFIP is 2nd amongst qualified pitchers this year. His 3.8 WAR is tied for third amongst qualified pitchers right now. SIERA is 2nd, tERA is 2nd. There's a lot of metrics that would argue that Greinke is one of the elite arms in the game.

[davell]

I'm definitely with toonster but it appears we're in the minority on this one. Definitely wasn't blown away by the Brewers haul.

Nah, I see where you guys are coming from. The upside of the package the Brewers just got is a league average SS, a 2, and a back end starter. The downside though, could be an often injured 2B, a middle reliever, and a guy who never sniffs the majors(who also is the guy with 2 upside). I would prefer Delgado to the package of those guys, but I see where it's considered a solid return.

[El Duderino]

not saying anything about his stuff, but there's definitely been a lot of inconsistency during his career.

[UMFan83]

I love the Angels. They are definitely my AL team this weekend.

[toonsterwu]

I'm definitely with toonster but it appears we're in the minority on this one. Definitely wasn't blown away by the Brewers haul.

 

Yeah, the headliner for one of the top couple pitchers in baseball is a 22 year old 2B with a sub-.750 OPS in the Texas league.

 

I'm seriously baffled at why so many people view this as a great deal. Delgado for Greinke would be a good deal (Delgado for Dempster would be a great deal).

 

Segura's decent, and maybe he sticks at short long enough for the Brewers to develop another option. But his ceiling still isn't great (never really understood the Baerga comp someone gave him once ... ). I get that Hellweg has a big fastball and has a promising slider. So did Jay Jackson, Trey McNutt, and a host of other arms through the years. Nice and intriguing, but the numbers this year haven't been great, and he's really going to have to take a big step up.

 

Really don't know enough on Pena off the top.

 

Just seems like a very middling deal to me, and yet, Brewers fans seem pleased, Angels fans are complaining about the cost of the package (granted, when teams give up prospects, there almost always seems to be a segment of the fanbase that is troubled by the cost), and enough others seem to support that his is a good deal.

[davell]

Rangers evidently aren't going after Johnson, according to Heyman.

[toonsterwu]

Rangers evidently aren't going after Johnson, according to Heyman.

 

That's a big plus for us. I like Johnson a ton, but who's giving up 3 prime pieces for him? Heck, there aren't many organizations that can offer three prime pieces.

 

Now, let's hope for some luck on Dempster and the Braves, and then see if the Dodgers/Rangers (and maybe the Blue Jays) can bid up Garza. Granted, Garza's health situation right now doesn't help, but let's hope.

[davell]

Rangers evidently aren't going after Johnson, according to Heyman.

 

That's a big plus for us. I like Johnson a ton, but who's giving up 3 prime pieces for him? Heck, there aren't many organizations that can offer three prime pieces.

 

Now, let's hope for some luck on Dempster and the Braves, and then see if the Dodgers/Rangers (and maybe the Blue Jays) can bid up Garza. Granted, Garza's health situation right now doesn't help, but let's hope.

Red Sox and Cards as well. They're doing something, even though I'm quite sure they'll be more conservative with us, than other teams, for obvious reasons.

[XZero771679666304]

Rangers evidently aren't going after Johnson, according to Heyman.

 

That's a big plus for us. I like Johnson a ton, but who's giving up 3 prime pieces for him? Heck, there aren't many organizations that can offer three prime pieces.

 

Now, let's hope for some luck on Dempster and the Braves, and then see if the Dodgers/Rangers (and maybe the Blue Jays) can bid up Garza. Granted, Garza's health situation right now doesn't help, but let's hope.

 

If this were the 2009/10 deadline, I could see Miami getting a haul for Johnson, but not now. Garza is probably safer than he is at this point.

[dfnowak]

How does this haul compare to what the Brewers originally gave up for Greinke? Escobar, Cain, Odorizzi and Jeffress, right? Seems like they gave up a heck of a lot more for Greinke than what they got back from the Angels

[davell]

Sure, the return now doesn't match up. But that's because he's a rental now, instead of a guy with some years of control, when the Brewers traded for him.

[toonsterwu]

How does this haul compare to what the Brewers originally gave up for Greinke? Escobar, Cain, Odorizzi and Jeffress, right? Seems like they gave up a heck of a lot more for Greinke than what they got back from the Angels

 

The optimistic view is that the two packages are fairly close, and considering that this is a rental, that'd be a win for the Brewers. The optimistic view is that Segura can handle short well enough and be a better offensive player than Escobar (and his value is similar to Escobar's then), and that Hellweg/Pena will become better starters than Odorizzi (and hold similar value to the Odorizzi/Jeffress then).

 

The flip side is that ... Segura might be more of a Darwin Barney, Hellweg might be a pen arm.

[Clem Fandango]

Texas Rangers GM Jon Daniels and his staff are always looking for ways to improve the club. They want a good starting pitcher. The manager wants a good starting pitcher. They need a good starting pitcher. Josh Johnson (if the Miami Marlins will trade him) and James Shields could now come into clearer focus. But the Rangers weren't willing to match the Los Angeles Angels' package for Zack Greinke. They weren't including some of their top prospects, including Jurickson Profar and Mike Olt, for a two-month (or three, if you include the postseason) rental. USA Today's Bob Nightengale says had Texas included Olt, Greinke would likely be headed to Arlington. But the Rangers felt the price was too high, so he's an Angel.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/texas-rangers/post/_/id/4888556/does-zack-greinke-deal-put-pressure-on-texas

 

Hypothetical question: If the Cubs finalize a Dempster for Delgado trade, and they were able to trade Garza for Olt + Top 15 ranked pitcher, and that's all we get out of Dempster and Garza (Delgado and Olt the primary pieces) would everyone consider that a disappointment, a push, or a good return?

[Guest]

Before any of the Dempster shenanigans, I was hoping for something along the lines of Eovaldi for Dempster and Olt, Perez, and maybe a minor 3rd piece for Garza. Delgado, Olt, and one of the group of prospects around the Perez/Buckel level in exchange for Dempster and Garza would be a success IMO.

[davell]

I hate saying it, but I can't see Garza bringing Olt. I read somewhere that Texas wants a top end guy and don't view Garza as one at this point. I'm hoping they get Johnson, Shields stays put and Boston keeps their guys, because they're fading fast. If those things happen, I think we'll get a good return on both our guys.

[El Duderino]

Delgado, Olt, and Perez would be an amazing haul.

[Clem Fandango]

I hate saying it, but I can't see Garza bringing Olt. I read somewhere that Texas wants a top end guy and don't view Garza as one at this point. I'm hoping they get Johnson, Shields stays put and Boston keeps their guys, because they're fading fast. If those things happen, I think we'll get a good return on both our guys.

 

I tend to agree on the Garza not bringing in Olt, sadly. What if the Cubs packaged some other players/prospects with Garza to try and get Olt. Anyone we have that they could use, whether it's short or long term?

 

INB4 WSR says Soriano

Edited July 28, 2012 by The Logan

[hawkeyecub]

How does this haul compare to what the Brewers originally gave up for Greinke? Escobar, Cain, Odorizzi and Jeffress, right? Seems like they gave up a heck of a lot more for Greinke than what they got back from the Angels

 

When they acquired him, it was to have him under their control for two seasons. They're selling him as a 2-month rental. Why would anyone expect what they got for him to be equivalent for what they gave up for him?

[toonsterwu]

Texas Rangers GM Jon Daniels and his staff are always looking for ways to improve the club. They want a good starting pitcher. The manager wants a good starting pitcher. They need a good starting pitcher. Josh Johnson (if the Miami Marlins will trade him) and James Shields could now come into clearer focus. But the Rangers weren't willing to match the Los Angeles Angels' package for Zack Greinke. They weren't including some of their top prospects, including Jurickson Profar and Mike Olt, for a two-month (or three, if you include the postseason) rental. USA Today's Bob Nightengale says had Texas included Olt, Greinke would likely be headed to Arlington. But the Rangers felt the price was too high, so he's an Angel.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/texas-rangers/post/_/id/4888556/does-zack-greinke-deal-put-pressure-on-texas

 

Hypothetical question: If the Cubs finalize a Dempster for Delgado trade, and they were able to trade Garza for Olt + Top 15 ranked pitcher, and that's all we get out of Dempster and Garza (Delgado and Olt the primary pieces) would everyone consider that a disappointment, a push, or a good return?

 

That'd be an unqualified success, IMO ... partly riding on the Delgado aspect, which no one could forsee as a possibility.

 

I know the Rangers idea of Olt and an arm is drawing interest amongst people here, but if we could get the Dodgers to fork over Zach Lee, that'd be my preferred route, even if it'd be a touch riskier.

[El Duderino]

Texas Rangers GM Jon Daniels and his staff are always looking for ways to improve the club. They want a good starting pitcher. The manager wants a good starting pitcher. They need a good starting pitcher. Josh Johnson (if the Miami Marlins will trade him) and James Shields could now come into clearer focus. But the Rangers weren't willing to match the Los Angeles Angels' package for Zack Greinke. They weren't including some of their top prospects, including Jurickson Profar and Mike Olt, for a two-month (or three, if you include the postseason) rental. USA Today's Bob Nightengale says had Texas included Olt, Greinke would likely be headed to Arlington. But the Rangers felt the price was too high, so he's an Angel.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/texas-rangers/post/_/id/4888556/does-zack-greinke-deal-put-pressure-on-texas

 

Hypothetical question: If the Cubs finalize a Dempster for Delgado trade, and they were able to trade Garza for Olt + Top 15 ranked pitcher, and that's all we get out of Dempster and Garza (Delgado and Olt the primary pieces) would everyone consider that a disappointment, a push, or a good return?

 

That'd be an unqualified success, IMO ... partly riding on the Delgado aspect, which no one could forsee as a possibility.

 

I know the Rangers idea of Olt and an arm is drawing interest amongst people here, but if we could get the Dodgers to fork over Zach Lee, that'd be my preferred route, even if it'd be a touch riskier.

 

Are you saying you'd do Garza for Zach Lee over Garza for Olt and Perez?

[Little Slide Rooter]

I hate saying it, but I can't see Garza bringing Olt. I read somewhere that Texas wants a top end guy and don't view Garza as one at this point. I'm hoping they get Johnson, Shields stays put and Boston keeps their guys, because they're fading fast. If those things happen, I think we'll get a good return on both our guys.

 

I tend to agree on the Garza not bringing in Olt, sadly. What if the Cubs packaged some other players/prospects with Garza to try and get Olt. Anyone we have that they could use, whether it's short or long term?

 

INB4 WSR says Soriano

 

You know me too well. But yes, they are said to be looking for a RH OF, and I don't know what else we have that they'd want aside from some of the guys we're counting on for the future.

[davell]

Again, I think Texas is thinking better pitcher than Garza, or just putting one of their pen arms back in the rotation. Which is understandable. That said, if we were trying to get Olt included in a deal with them, adding guys with little to know value isn't getting it done. We'd have to send them some minor leaguers back as well. No reason to bother coming up with who, but that's the way you'd conceivably do it. Not adding in spare parts or salary dumps.