Greinke to the Angels

[David]

BREAKING: Zack Greinke dealt to #Angels for package including Jean Segura, sources tell @Ken_Rosenthal and me. @MLBONFOX

[XZero771679666304]

Good. Better the Angels than the Dodgers or Braves.

[Clem Fandango]

He's probably going to retire in a couple weeks because he can't handle the pressure of playing in Los Angeles.

[davell]

Good. Now, if Texas takes Johnson, it leaves Shields and our guys. With the Orioles, White Sox, Red Sox, Blue Jays, Braves, Dodgers, and Cards looking.

[davell]

Segura, Ariel Pena, and John Hellweg. Solid return.

[Clem Fandango]

What is the appeal of Segura? Looking at his numbers and is correlating prospect rankings I assume he is primarily known for his speed and his defense?

[Deeg]

He's probably going to retire in a couple weeks because he can't handle the pressure of playing in Los Angeles.

 

Well, since he won't be playing in Los Angeles, I suspect he'll be fine.

[El Duderino]

What is the appeal of Segura? Looking at his numbers and is correlating prospect rankings I assume he is primarily known for his speed and his defense?

 

The Good: Segura profiles as a force at, or toward the top, of a major-league order. He has a lightning-quick bat and outstanding hands. He projects to hit for a high average, and has enough strength in his swing to hit 15-18 home runs per year. He's a plus runner and a good basestealer. He moved from second base to shortstop in 2011, and showed good range and soft hands at the position.

The Bad: Segura has improved his plate discipline, but still looks for fastballs early in the count. He can get tied up by off-speed stuff from right-handers. While his trial on the left side of the infield created some optimism, his arm is average at best.

[Clem Fandango]

He's probably going to retire in a couple weeks because he can't handle the pressure of playing in Los Angeles.

 

Well, since he won't be playing in Los Angeles, I suspect he'll be fine.

 

Touché.

[davell]

What is the appeal of Segura? Looking at his numbers and is correlating prospect rankings I assume he is primarily known for his speed and his defense?

He's kind of solid at everything, but not elite at anything.

[Cubswin11]

What is the appeal of Segura? Looking at his numbers and is correlating prospect rankings I assume he is primarily known for his speed and his defense?

He's kind of solid at everything, but not elite at anything.

Would Orlando Cabrera be a good comp?

[Clem Fandango]

If you're the Brewers, would you have preferred to ship Greinke to the Braves to try and get a better package than what we were going to get for Dempster, or is the package they got from the Angels better than what they would've likely got from the Braves? If we were able to swing a Dempster for Delgado deal, I imagine Greinke would've brought in much more than that

[toonsterwu]

Segura, Ariel Pena, and John Hellweg. Solid return.

 

Really? I think that's a pretty piss poor return for an ace like Greinke, even a rental. I'm not nearly as high on Segura as many, I guess. Hellweg and Pena seem ... decent, but nothing exceptional. Put it another way - I think they got 3 B, B- types, and for an ace like Greinke, I think this is an absolute steal for the Angels to not have to give up Cowart or Richards.

 

Edit: I know they wanted to shoot for a middle infielder in this trade, and it's possible Segura was the best they could get, but still ... I just don't think this is a good return, even accounting for that factor.

Edited July 27, 2012 by toonsterwu

[toonsterwu]

If you're the Brewers, would you have preferred to ship Greinke to the Braves to try and get a better package than what we were going to get for Dempster, or is the package they got from the Angels better than what they would've likely got from the Braves? If we were able to swing a Dempster for Delgado deal, I imagine Greinke would've brought in much more than that

 

I would easily take the chances on Delgado over those three. You try to shoot for ceiling in these types of trades, IMO.

[davell]

What is the appeal of Segura? Looking at his numbers and is correlating prospect rankings I assume he is primarily known for his speed and his defense?

He's kind of solid at everything, but not elite at anything.

Would Orlando Cabrera be a good comp?

Nah, Cabrera was excellent defensively, Segura's better off at 2B and has much better plate discipline than Cabrera did. To me, Hellweg is the main piece. Big arm, tons of risk, but bigtime upside.

[davell]

Segura, Ariel Pena, and John Hellweg. Solid return.

 

Really? I think that's a pretty piss poor return for an ace like Greinke, even a rental. I'm not nearly as high on Segura as many, I guess. Hellweg and Pena seem ... decent, but nothing exceptional. Put it another way - I think they got 3 B, B- types, and for an ace like Greinke, I think this is an absolute steal for the Angels to not have to give up Cowart or Richards.

 

Edit: I know they wanted to shoot for a middle infielder in this trade, and it's possible Segura was the best they could get, but still ... I just don't think this is a good return, even accounting for that factor.

I think I probably like Hellweg more than you. That said, if given the choice, I'd take Delgado over that package myself. But I think we're in the minority there, as the strength in numbers approach seems to be what analysts see being better, unless a true elite guy is involved. Which Delgado is not.

[ctcf]

Of course Garza is hurt.

[davell]

Of course Garza is hurt.

I hate to say it, but I'm getting optimistic again that we may be able to deal him anyway.

[Illini Iceman]

This validates to the Braves that they weren't overpaying with Delgado for Dempster and there was no way they were going to get Grienke for the same price. It may also push the Dodgers to realize they are not offering fair value. This can only mean good things.

 

Thankfully we have smart guys running the negotiations that aren't going to panic. If they give in on this Dempster deal to the Dodgers they not only lose now but in the future when other teams figure they just have to wait them out and watch them cave.

[toonsterwu]

Seems like Brewers fans are pleased. Good for them. Eh. Still think you have to go for more ceiling in this type of deal. I mean, Segura isn't that much better than Barney (granted, Barney has value, but no one is going to suggest Barney as a centerpiece of a trade like this). I mean, it's not hard to imagine Barney having a good offensive year that resembles Segura's. The arms, I think, are being oversold a bit. Hellweg strikes me as more of pen arm long term, and I don't know enough on Pena off the top. Both guys seem like mid-rotation ceiling types, and if you have 2 mid-rotation ceiling arms, you'd be lucky if one panned out. It seems like the Brewers probably felt that they had some arm depth (4-5 decent arms in the system, but really, no great arm), and an ace on the staff already (Gallardo), so they could target needs.

 

Since the only thing that matters is what matters for the Cubs, the positive side of the deal is that Atlanta struck out when they were rumored heavily in on Greinke. I don't know if they would give up a Bethancourt and more (just tossing Bethancourt out since the Rays are rumored looking at catchers) for Shields. They may have to consider Dempster again if Dempster shows a willingness to consider them as the deadline draws near.

[El Duderino]

Segura, Ariel Pena, and John Hellweg. Solid return.

 

Really? I think that's a pretty piss poor return for an ace like Greinke, even a rental. I'm not nearly as high on Segura as many, I guess. Hellweg and Pena seem ... decent, but nothing exceptional. Put it another way - I think they got 3 B, B- types, and for an ace like Greinke, I think this is an absolute steal for the Angels to not have to give up Cowart or Richards.

 

Edit: I know they wanted to shoot for a middle infielder in this trade, and it's possible Segura was the best they could get, but still ... I just don't think this is a good return, even accounting for that factor.

 

i think greinke being an "ace" is pretty debatable

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Of course Garza is hurt.

I hate to say it, but I'm getting optimistic again that we may be able to deal him anyway.

 

I'm getting a little optimistic too. Greinke being dealt can only be good for us. Who's left? Johnson? He sucks.

[Guest]

I'm definitely with toonster but it appears we're in the minority on this one. Definitely wasn't blown away by the Brewers haul.

[Illini Iceman]

Seems like Brewers fans are pleased. Good for them. Eh. Still think you have to go for more ceiling in this type of deal. I mean, Segura isn't that much better than Barney (granted, Barney has value, but no one is going to suggest Barney as a centerpiece of a trade like this). I mean, it's not hard to imagine Barney having a good offensive year that resembles Segura's. The arms, I think, are being oversold a bit. Hellweg strikes me as more of pen arm long term, and I don't know enough on Pena off the top. Both guys seem like mid-rotation ceiling types, and if you have 2 mid-rotation ceiling arms, you'd be lucky if one panned out. It seems like the Brewers probably felt that they had some arm depth (4-5 decent arms in the system, but really, no great arm), and an ace on the staff already (Gallardo), so they could target needs.

 

Since the only thing that matters is what matters for the Cubs, the positive side of the deal is that Atlanta struck out when they were rumored heavily in on Greinke. I don't know if they would give up a Bethancourt and more (just tossing Bethancourt out since the Rays are rumored looking at catchers) for Shields. They may have to consider Dempster again if Dempster shows a willingness to consider them as the deadline draws near.

 

I don't think the Braves will want to take on Shields' contract. The nice thing about Dempster for the Braves is the Cubs probably eat most of the salary due the rest of the season and then the Braves have no further financial commitment.

[Guest]

I'm definitely with toonster but it appears we're in the minority on this one. Definitely wasn't blown away by the Brewers haul.

 

Yeah, the headliner for one of the top couple pitchers in baseball is a 22 year old 2B with a sub-.750 OPS in the Texas league.