2012 Draft Day Thread + Cubs Picks Discussion

[Guest]

It's pretty ludicrous to accuse the Rangers of forging Beras' birth certificate. Most of the shady/illegal stuff going on in Latin America is due to lax laws and indifference to bribery, etc. Teams cant get away with that type of stuff in the USA.

[Guest]

Truffle, Jairo Beras is the kid the Rangers signed who initially told MLB he would be 16 in time to be eligible for this year's July 2 IFA market. Then the Rangers signed him before July 2 when he provided them proof he was actually 17. MLB is now investigating the matter.

[davell]

It's pretty ludicrous to accuse the Rangers of forging Beras' birth certificate. Most of the shady/illegal stuff going on in Latin America is due to lax laws and indifference to bribery, etc. Teams cant get away with that type of stuff in the USA.

Granted, I went too far to mention the Rangers actually doing the forging. But it's definitely likely they did some shady things here, even if it can't be proven. And hell, for all we know, it still will be proven. It's the last time before the new rules kick in and a team may have went much further than usual, to try and get an advantage. I just don't see how it's not conceivable to think the same thing can happen with the draft.

[toonsterwu]

FWIW, Wiseman seems really happy to have been drafted by the Cubs.

 

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/other_mlb/view/20220607cubs_select_wiseman_late/srvc=sports&position=also

 

“I was actually walking into the tuxedo shop, picking up my tux for my prom tonight when I got the call,” the Massachusetts Gatorade Player of the Year said.

 

Though he was scooped up by the Cubs more than 20 rounds after he was projected to be taken — he was ranked as the 136th best prospect by Baseball America — the center fielder was ecstatic just to be drafted.

 

“You work your whole life to get drafted as a baseball player,” Wiseman said. “I was so honored, I was so humbled, and the Cubs are a great organization. I’m just so impressed with the people that run the Cubs from behind the scenes and the organization itself. To know that I was drafted by a team like the Cubs — not only a respected organization, but run by very, very respectable people — I was definitely humbled.”

 

Wiseman, who committed to Vanderbilt when he was 15 and plans on playing for the Commodores next year, was hitting .444 with eight home runs, 24 RBI and 26 runs scored for BB&N through last Friday. The 6-foot-2 senior noted he would be wearing an unconventional item in all of his prom pictures.

 

“I’ll show up to prom pictures with my Cubbies hat on, and it’s going to be tough for anyone to take it off my head tonight, that’s for sure.”

 

I hope he signs, but I imagine this is another Sonny Gray situation, where he's backup in case we somehow miss on some guys earlier (not that I can figure out who we would miss on to make him the backup ... I guess, just a case of if they have the money lying around). But he sure would make this draft look a ton more intriguing (don't know what the general takes are on the draft, as I've been busy, but it looks decent-solid to me, just doesn't seem to have a ton of guys that jump off as intriguing/exciting pieces as of now. Of course, how a player sounds right now doesn't matter squat.

[toonsterwu]

From today's BA chat:

 

Dan (Chicago): Would you rank Almora ahead of Javier Baez on a list of Cubs top prospects?

 

Jim Callis: It's close ... would have to see how this season plays out. Baez has more offensive ceiling, Almora a good ceiling and higher floor.

 

 

Until we get Almora into game action and see some numbers/some more concrete reports, I see no way that Almora should be ahead of Baez. Because on tools ... we're talking about a kid in Baez, with a chance to stick at short, with a much higher offensive ceiling, versus a kid in Almora who has average-plus tools (a wide range to work with) who is "polished"). Baez, unless he flops horribly down the stretch in Peoria, IMO, should be easily ahead of Almora.

[toonsterwu]

I would be really tempted to give Almora slot, and if he doesn't accept, walk away and bank the pick for next year.

 

I really really like Almora, but having two top 10 picks next year would be pretty awesome.

I wouldn't. We aren't talking about an all-time great draft like 2005 or last year, just a draft better than this year. Too much risk and variables to punt - it doesn't always work out as well as it did for Arizona last year (just look at San Diego who went safe with a lesser prospect to ensure the guy signed since they wouldnt get a comp pick again). I doubt Almora would sign for too much over slot in the end, Boras client or not. And I'm sure Theo and company did their due diligence to see just how singable Almora is.

 

I'd also add that there's risk for Almora. There's a decent chance that he won't get picked this high in 3 years. Keep in mind that, up till about 2 months ago, he seemed to a mid-late first round pick. It might've made sense for him to go to college in that situation - see if he can be a top 10 pick. But is he going to risk all that money now with so much unknown? I think he'll get above slot, but not significantly above, with savings coming from our senior draftees probably balancing things out a bit. I would guess that Wiseman might be some sort of fallback for Almora, but I'd be vastly disappointed if they somehow stuck to slot and said take it or leave it with Almora.

 

One other comment would be that, as intriguing as the draft looks now for next year, as Raisin noted, it's not a superb year (and I mean ... it's really, on paper, not as good as 2011 as of now). Furthermore, you really don't know how things may change in a year. Matt Purke got injured. Jacob Thompson (IIRC, once viewed as a first rounder) struggled enough to drop him. Things are going to change. Take the very good talent now, IMO.

[toonsterwu]

Carlos Rodon isn't draftable until 2014.

 

Someone said that later in the chat, and Goldstein insisted he was a draft-eligible sophomore next year.

 

If Rodon is eligible ... damn. Not often I'll say this, but I hope we finish with the worst record. Rodon is damn good. Filthy damn good. I always had a bias for Hultzen, as a UVA fan, but Rodon is clearly a notch above Hultzen at the same stage, if not two (Hultzen was throwing low 90's his first year or so, before picking it up as he got stronger, Rodon is nasty in the mid-90's right now).

 

Edit: Guess Rodon is still 2014. Figured. Was just skimming through the posts. I'm really not hoping for two years of the worst record in baseball, although it would net us a potentially great arm in 2014.

Edited June 8, 2012 by toonsterwu

[toonsterwu]

Yeah, I think they would have taken Appel as well if it was the old rules.

 

He wouldn't have made it past the #4 in the old draft rules.

 

I don't know if Baltimore would've definitely taken him. Seems like some chatter that the Orioles really preferred Gausman (at least, heard that on the radio, I think).

 

Tbh, I'm still glad we passed on Appel. Great value for the Pirates if they land him, but I still get wary when thinking about Appel.

[toonsterwu]

 

And my least favorite...

JWR (Chicago): Cubs are awful this year but should Cub fans be excited about the direction that Theo and Hoyer have pointed the Cubs? It seems like there is a plan, even if this year and next year are going to be a bit of a trainwreck.

 

Kevin Goldstein: Maybe 2014 too. The organization is in the right hands, but they're not miracle workers.

 

At this point I think Cubs fans should just accept 2015 as the year to look forward to. If we somehow start competing in 2014 then that's just a bonus. Plus although this year is terrible and next year will probably be more of the same without much improvement, even if we don't compete in 2014, we should see some clear improvement during that season, as I don't believe the FO is going to open up the check book to fill any holes we might have going into 2015 if the team finishes last in the MLB in 2014.

 

Ideally this year we finish 62-100, next year 65-97, 2014 79-83 and then compete in 2015.

 

I've stuck to 2014 as the year to start looking for our next window to open, and I'll stick with that. Once a lot of money comes off the books, I imagine (although who knows) that the FO will have a lot more flexibility. At that point in time, hopefully the system is a bit better and has provided a few more key assets.

 

It may be 2015 when we can legitimately compete for ... something ... but I think 2014 should be the year when the window opens. Give Rizzo and Co. a year or so to settle in, and let the FO make some moves. If they can't build and intriguing team by 2014, it'll be a bit disappointing. It's easy to forget, but the system isn't horrid right now ... it's just not good.

[toonsterwu]

Honestly, I'd love to wind up in Houston's predicament next year. Currently the draft is better than this one, but at least for now, no consensus top pick. If it brings multiple bigtime players here, I'm all for it.

 

I'd love to see a thread on this at some point.

 

How badly do we want the No. 1 overall pick?

 

On the one hand, that's obviously a huge asset.

 

On the other, it would mean that we'd have to be really, really bad the rest of the season, and that means some long-term assets we are hoping will appreciate will have to perform badly. Unless we can somehow manage to suck entirely on the backs of the expendable veterans while Rizzo, Castro, Samardzija dominate.

 

For one year, I don't mind it. It's not even the No. 1 overall pick ... it's the pool that comes with it (granted, most of the draft pool would go to the No. 1 pick, but maybe they pull an Astros move ... depends on how the grade the guys, I guess).

 

Two years, much as I would love to get Rodon in 2014 ... that would suck. One year, I can live with, considering I had this team pegged as a 60-72 win type team.

[toonsterwu]

Bruno may be on the small side – he says he’s 5-8½ and 175 pounds – but he generates good power. ..

 

...I'm a big, big Bruno fan. ... This isn't ... Theriot, IMO.

 

That said, his bat is intriguing. On the surface, he should offer a good approach, hit for average, show average, if not more, power. It's a nice, all-around package - think ... uh ... Adrian Cardenas' offensive potential with a touch more power potential perhaps. Or if we want to stick to an undersized white guy comp, perhaps Mike Fontenot with a better potential to hit for average.

 

Again ... on paper, he has this potential. He may not get there, but it's a fascinating package.

 

I don't see the above average power projection, but hope you're right. Seems unlikely for so short a guy and having hit only 6 college HR's this year. He doesn't walk at all, so I'm guessing he'll be heavily a batting average guy, with low IsoD and limited IsoP. But guys who can hit the ball on the nose, and have good hands/arm/quickness, they've got a chance.

 

Cerda, Clevenger, Chirinos, etc.. He sounds like the kind of smaller athlete who they routinely try at catcher. I wonder how long it will be before they do that with him? I'd like to see them do it fast. His bat has a better chance at catcher.

 

To be clear, I did say average, if not more. I think average power potential, say, 12-15 HR potential, isn't all that unrealistic. The kid has very good bat speed (I don't know if I would say, put it in Marco Hernandez bat speed range), and has good loft.

 

I think he'll take more walks as he settles more into a top of the order role. The Wahoos wanted him to swing away. He was the number 3 hitter for much of the year, and they need him to take advantage of his "hit tool".

 

I'll be surprised if they move him to catcher. The kid has legitimate middle-infield abilities. With Cerda/Clevenger/Chirinos (and Chirinos wasn't small ... 6'1" 200), all three had questionable long term defensive potential to stay up the middle. I'll say it again ... in another system, it wouldn't surprise me if Bruno was at shortstop all the way up the ladder (hard to see it in the Cubs system ... as the lower levels are stocked with shortstops).

[Guest]

Are we doing a separate thread for signings? I keep opening this one hopefully every time there's a new post.

[Guest]

I've been updating each new signing in this thread and in the 2nd post.

 

So far only 1 signing.

[Guest]

Maybe we're going slowly because the braintrust is currently negotiating with Soler's agent!

 

Or maybe I'm just impatient. :D

[davell]

 

Prieto signs for "projected" 250,000.

 

http://www.newssun.com/sports/FRI-6-8-12-Corbin

 

Hoffner signs as well. Bonus not listed.

 

Tim, my fault on littering this thread for the last page or two, so figured I'd post something relevant for a change of pace. :D

[bukie]

Prieto was the Cubs' 5th round pick, with a $257k slot allotment. Hoffner was a 14th round pick, which allowed up to $100k allotment without counting against the bonus pool.

[davell]

http://tagsgf.com/2012/06/08/podcast-msu%E2%80%99s-pierce-johnson-talks-mlb-draft/

 

Link to an interview with Pierce Johnson, after the draft. Sounds like an easier sign.

[Guest]

BA reporting Alford will sign with Toronto. Ridiculous.

[jersey cubs fan]

BA reporting Alford will sign with Toronto. Ridiculous.

 

What do you mean by ridiculous?

[El Duderino]

They're letting him play football.

[bukie]

BA reporting Alford will sign with Toronto. Ridiculous.

Sounds like that'll blow the majority of their bonus pool, though. One football injury and the pick is wasted. Don't know if I would have wanted the Cubs to risk it.

[davell]

I read somewhere Alford's going to get around double slot. 800ish or so. But Goldsteon says he won't get but 60-70 games a year in, unless he chooses baseball completely, so it could wind up being a big waste, I guess.

[Guest]

26tb rounder Jassvir Rakkar just have up a HR in the 11th to LSU. It's on ESPN2.

[bukie]

26tb rounder Jassvir Rakkar just have up a HR in the 11th to LSU. It's on ESPN2.

Thus marking the third consecutive inning Stony Brook couldn't hold a 1-run lead to end the game.

[Guest]

BA reporting Alford will sign with Toronto. Ridiculous.

 

What do you mean by ridiculous?

He was supposed to be the toughest sign amongst the top 50 or so prospects because he wanted to play football and it was thought 2-sport deals would be much tougher to hammer out with this new CBA.