Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes 5-8-12

[Outshined_One]

Box Scores

 

Iowa won 13-2 Box Score

 

CF B. Jackson 1/3, 2 BB, 3 R, 3B (1), 2 K

1B A. Rizzo 2/5, 2 R, 6 RBI, 2 HR (9)

3B J. Vitters 3/5, 2 R, 4 RBI, 2B (4), HR (2)

PH D. Sappelt 0/1

SP C. Rusin 6 IP, 3 H, 1 ER, 2 BB, 5 K, HR, 7-3 GO-FO

RP B. Parker 1 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 1 K, 1-0 GO-FO

 

Tennessee lost 6-3 Box Score

 

SS J. Lake 0/4, BB, K

2B E. Soto 0/4, BB, K

CF JH Ha 2/5, R, 2B (10)

LF R. Ridling 1/4, BB

DH M. Cerda 0/2 2 BB, R

SP T. McNutt 3 IP, 5 H, 4 R, 3 ER, 1 BB, 1 K, HR, 6-2 GO-FO

RP R. Searle 2 IP, 3 H, 1 ER, 3 BB, 2 K, WP, 1-2 GO-FO

RP J. Antigua 2 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 0 K, 3-1 GO-FO

 

Daytona won 12-4 Box Score

 

CF M. Szczur 1/5, BB, 2 R, 2B (9)

SS A. Alcantara 1/4, BB, R, 3 RBI, E (15, fielding)

2B R. Silva 2/6, 2 R, 3 RBI, HR (2)

LF J. Andreoli 2/3, 2 BB, 2 R

SP M. Loosen 5 IP, 4 H, 1 ER, 2 BB, 4 K, HBP, 2-7 GO-FO

RP H. Simpson 4 IP, 5 H, 3 R, 2 ER, 1 BB, 1 K, 6-4 GO-FO

 

Peoria won 7-2 Box Score

 

LF PC Chen 1/4, 2 BB, RBI

CF T. Easterling 2/6, 3 RBI, 2 K

3B W. Darvill 2/5, 3B (3), 2 K

DH P. Hoilman 1/5, RBI, K

RF O. Zapata 0/4, BB, 2 R, 2 K

SS M. Hernandez 1/4, BB, R, K

SP J. Rosario 5 IP, 10 H, 2 ER, 0 BB, 5 K, HR, Balk, 5-4 GO-FO

RP L. Liria 2 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 2 BB, 2 K, WP, 2-1 GO-FO

 

OVERALL: 3-1

[ctcf]

Forgive me as I apparently missed it, but is Torreyes on the DL or something?

[Little Slide Rooter]

I think he simply lost his job for now. Alcantara is at SS and Silva at 2B.

[davell]

I'd be shocked if that's the case. My guess is they either gave him a few days off or he's banged up. They sat him out 3 games or so a couple of weeks ago as well.

[Guest]

I think he simply lost his job for now. Alcantara is at SS and Silva at 2B.

 

Yeah, that's completely unlikely.

[Guest]

Probable Starters

 

Iowa: RHP Casey Coleman (0-0, 0.00 ERA, 6 IP, 5 K, 2 BB)

Tennesse: RHP Trey McNutt (0-2, 1.56 ERA, 17.1 IP, 14 K, 9 BB)

Daytona: RHP Matt Loosen (0-1, 7.88 ERA, 8 IP, 6 K, 8 BB)

Peoria: RHP Jose Rosario (`-3, 5.52 ERA, 31 IP, 23 K, 13 BB)

[Guest]

Probable Starters

 

Iowa: RHP Casey Coleman (0-0, 0.00 ERA, 6 IP, 5 K, 2 BB)

Tennesse: RHP Trey McNutt (0-2, 1.56 ERA, 17.1 IP, 14 K, 9 BB)

Daytona: RHP Matt Loosen (0-1, 7.88 ERA, 8 IP, 6 K, 8 BB)

Peoria: RHP Jose Rosario (`-3, 5.52 ERA, 31 IP, 23 K, 13 BB)

Didn't Coleman just pitch?

[Guest]

Well, yesterday went pretty well for him, so why not try it again?

[El Duderino]

mcnutt's era is 1.56? for some reason I thought he had been horrible.

[Cubswin11]

mcnutt's era is 1.56? for some reason I thought he had been horrible.

He kinda has, despite the low ERA, he hasn't been pitching deep into games at all, his K numbers have only been ok and he's been walking a lot of guys.

[jersey cubs fan]

mcnutt's era is 1.56? for some reason I thought he had been horrible.

He kinda has, despite the low ERA, he hasn't been pitching deep into games at all, his K numbers have only been ok and he's been walking a lot of guys.

 

Is that kind of horrible or just okay?

[Guest]

mcnutt's era is 1.56? for some reason I thought he had been horrible.

Perhaps if we leave ERA out it'll help explain:

 

17.1 IP (in FIVE starts), 9 BB, 14 K, 1.00 GB/FB

 

Basically, his ERA is good because of luck on BABIP and HR/FB.

[toonsterwu]

They sat Torreyes earlier in the year when he was struggling, and I imagine this is a similar kind of treatment. I'd be surprised if he wasn't in there today or tomorrow. They let Marco Hernandez/Taiwan Easterling get in there consistently, even though both guys stunk up the joint for a long time (and Marco is still SSS, at least Taiwan has a strong 2 weeks).

 

With Rubi Silva ... not as hot as before ... and with Silva able to play OF, I'd be surprised if Torreyes wasn't given a chance to work things out. Although ... now that I look at it ... all the OF's are hitting surprisingly ... decent ... in Daytona (Szczur is hot, Andreoli is doing his James Adduci impersonation, except not playing CF, Perez is smoking hot, and Bonne is at least making contact).

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

I hate the SP in this system!

 

Hate is a strong word...It's very unlikeable. McNutt needs to step up.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I hate the SP in this system!

 

Hate is a strong word...It's very unlikeable. McNutt needs to step up.

 

I think we have a lot of guys who project to be solid back end starters, which is good if we have a strong 1-3 by the time they're ready.

[Cubswin11]

I hate the SP in this system!

 

Hate is a strong word...It's very unlikeable. McNutt needs to step up.

 

I think we have a lot of guys who project to be solid back end starters, which is good if we have a strong 1-3 by the time they're ready.

Our pitching in the system just sucks. It's sad the ceiling of most of our pitchers is a good-average back end starter and most of the pitchers will only end up as bullpen arms if they ever reach MLB.

[Guest]

Probable Starters

 

Iowa: RHP Casey Coleman (0-0, 0.00 ERA, 6 IP, 5 K, 2 BB)

Tennesse: RHP Trey McNutt (0-2, 1.56 ERA, 17.1 IP, 14 K, 9 BB)

Daytona: RHP Matt Loosen (0-1, 7.88 ERA, 8 IP, 6 K, 8 BB)

Peoria: RHP Jose Rosario (`-3, 5.52 ERA, 31 IP, 23 K, 13 BB)

Didn't Coleman just pitch?

 

It's very easy to confuse Casey Coleman with Rodrigo Lopez.

[toonsterwu]

Too many top 10 round picks just haven't panned out on the arm side. Who would've believed, a year or two ago, that Jeff Samardzija would be the top arm from the Wilken era of drafts? I don't think any of us would've legitimately believed that right now.

 

Since I'm waiting for a customer service call, top 10 round arms in the Wilken era:

 

06 - Samardzija/Muldowney (a try hard college arm, but just never had the stuff)/Renshaw (part of Trachsel trade, but looked like an end of the rotation/pen arm type at the time anyways, before stalling in O's A+)

 

07 - Lambert (sent to O's, but IIRC, injuries nabbed him. that said, he was really a pen arm type who started a few games)

 

08 (the pitching draft) - Cashner (injuries have hurt his chances to be a starter ... let's see if San Diego can actually keep to their promised intent of moving him back to the rotation in 2013 ... I doubt it), Shafer (injuries), Carpenter (injuries, control problems ... but hey, he got us Theo ... sorta), Bristow (this might be one of my bigger disappointments, injuries nabbed him, but boy, at the end of 2009, he was a fascinating arm whose fastball just exploded), Leverton (just wasn't as good as hoped for, IIRC, was a 2-way guy in college that we hoped would get better as a starter), Jay Jackson (once upon a time ... ), Alex Wilson (didn't sign)

 

09 - Kirk (he's performing, but his ceiling is ... debatable, to say the least), Rusin (I remember at the time that Kirk/Rusin back to back wasn't viewed that badly because there was hope in Kirk as a young arm, but looking at it now, boy, we took two back of the rotation lefties back to back ... ), Raley (see ... Rusin ... this really wasn't viewed that poorly, IIRC the opinions on Cubs sites back then, but looking at it now, 3 back of the rotation lefty types in the top 6 rounds), Whitenack (let's hope he works his way back up in the same form he showed last year), Thomas (fireballer who hasn't developed as a pen arm enough to move up yet)

 

10 - Simpson (injuries), Ackerman (still chugging it away in XST), Ben Wells (looks interesting enough so far), Greathouse (control), Rhoderick (looks nice, but looks middle relief/setup nice), Kurcz (I liked him ... and he did net us Theo ... sorta)

 

11 - Zych/Scott

 

Granted, top 10 round picks aren't everything, but that's a lot of ... bleh ... for top 10 round pitching. Add in the bust of a Jin-Young Kim signing and Concepcion signing, and that's a lot of assets, picks or money, wasted so far. The 08 draft was really the one that got the talk on the Cubs system turned around a bit, but so many of those guys haven't panned out the way we had once hoped.

[Guest]

that's....depressing.

[SouthSideRyan]

This also reminded me that Kurcz went to Boston along with Carpenter, and I'm annoyed all over again about it.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

This also reminded me that Kurcz went to Boston along with Carpenter, and I'm annoyed all over again about it.

 

Damn yeah I really liked him as a pen arm. Very mechanical and reminded me of my favorite reliever in baseball right now, David Robertson. Nice sharp breaking ball he could throw for strikes or bury...good fastball...Oh well hopefully they find another one.

[BeerHere]

Too many top 10 round picks just haven't panned out on the arm side. Who would've believed, a year or two ago, that Jeff Samardzija would be the top arm from the Wilken era of drafts? I don't think any of us would've legitimately believed that right now.

 

Since I'm waiting for a customer service call, top 10 round arms in the Wilken era:

 

06 - Samardzija/Muldowney (a try hard college arm, but just never had the stuff)/Renshaw (part of Trachsel trade, but looked like an end of the rotation/pen arm type at the time anyways, before stalling in O's A+)

 

07 - Lambert (sent to O's, but IIRC, injuries nabbed him. that said, he was really a pen arm type who started a few games)

 

08 (the pitching draft) - Cashner (injuries have hurt his chances to be a starter ... let's see if San Diego can actually keep to their promised intent of moving him back to the rotation in 2013 ... I doubt it), Shafer (injuries), Carpenter (injuries, control problems ... but hey, he got us Theo ... sorta), Bristow (this might be one of my bigger disappointments, injuries nabbed him, but boy, at the end of 2009, he was a fascinating arm whose fastball just exploded), Leverton (just wasn't as good as hoped for, IIRC, was a 2-way guy in college that we hoped would get better as a starter), Jay Jackson (once upon a time ... ), Alex Wilson (didn't sign)

 

09 - Kirk (he's performing, but his ceiling is ... debatable, to say the least), Rusin (I remember at the time that Kirk/Rusin back to back wasn't viewed that badly because there was hope in Kirk as a young arm, but looking at it now, boy, we took two back of the rotation lefties back to back ... ), Raley (see ... Rusin ... this really wasn't viewed that poorly, IIRC the opinions on Cubs sites back then, but looking at it now, 3 back of the rotation lefty types in the top 6 rounds), Whitenack (let's hope he works his way back up in the same form he showed last year), Thomas (fireballer who hasn't developed as a pen arm enough to move up yet)

 

10 - Simpson (injuries), Ackerman (still chugging it away in XST), Ben Wells (looks interesting enough so far), Greathouse (control), Rhoderick (looks nice, but looks middle relief/setup nice), Kurcz (I liked him ... and he did net us Theo ... sorta)

 

11 - Zych/Scott

 

Granted, top 10 round picks aren't everything, but that's a lot of ... bleh ... for top 10 round pitching. Add in the bust of a Jin-Young Kim signing and Concepcion signing, and that's a lot of assets, picks or money, wasted so far. The 08 draft was really the one that got the talk on the Cubs system turned around a bit, but so many of those guys haven't panned out the way we had once hoped.

Was Pawelek not a Wilken pick? I completely agree though, the wasted picks on pitchers that flame out or never do much is depressing.

[BeerHere]

Too many top 10 round picks just haven't panned out on the arm side. Who would've believed, a year or two ago, that Jeff Samardzija would be the top arm from the Wilken era of drafts? I don't think any of us would've legitimately believed that right now.

 

Since I'm waiting for a customer service call, top 10 round arms in the Wilken era:

 

06 - Samardzija/Muldowney (a try hard college arm, but just never had the stuff)/Renshaw (part of Trachsel trade, but looked like an end of the rotation/pen arm type at the time anyways, before stalling in O's A+)

 

07 - Lambert (sent to O's, but IIRC, injuries nabbed him. that said, he was really a pen arm type who started a few games)

 

08 (the pitching draft) - Cashner (injuries have hurt his chances to be a starter ... let's see if San Diego can actually keep to their promised intent of moving him back to the rotation in 2013 ... I doubt it), Shafer (injuries), Carpenter (injuries, control problems ... but hey, he got us Theo ... sorta), Bristow (this might be one of my bigger disappointments, injuries nabbed him, but boy, at the end of 2009, he was a fascinating arm whose fastball just exploded), Leverton (just wasn't as good as hoped for, IIRC, was a 2-way guy in college that we hoped would get better as a starter), Jay Jackson (once upon a time ... ), Alex Wilson (didn't sign)

 

09 - Kirk (he's performing, but his ceiling is ... debatable, to say the least), Rusin (I remember at the time that Kirk/Rusin back to back wasn't viewed that badly because there was hope in Kirk as a young arm, but looking at it now, boy, we took two back of the rotation lefties back to back ... ), Raley (see ... Rusin ... this really wasn't viewed that poorly, IIRC the opinions on Cubs sites back then, but looking at it now, 3 back of the rotation lefty types in the top 6 rounds), Whitenack (let's hope he works his way back up in the same form he showed last year), Thomas (fireballer who hasn't developed as a pen arm enough to move up yet)

 

10 - Simpson (injuries), Ackerman (still chugging it away in XST), Ben Wells (looks interesting enough so far), Greathouse (control), Rhoderick (looks nice, but looks middle relief/setup nice), Kurcz (I liked him ... and he did net us Theo ... sorta)

 

11 - Zych/Scott

 

Granted, top 10 round picks aren't everything, but that's a lot of ... bleh ... for top 10 round pitching. Add in the bust of a Jin-Young Kim signing and Concepcion signing, and that's a lot of assets, picks or money, wasted so far. The 08 draft was really the one that got the talk on the Cubs system turned around a bit, but so many of those guys haven't panned out the way we had once hoped.

Was Pawelek not a Wilken pick? I completely agree though, the wasted picks on pitchers that flame out or never do much is depressing.

Sorry, he was 2005.

[toonsterwu]

Pawelek was 05. Wilken's first draft, unless I'm mistaken, was 06, so Pawelek was still Stockstill, or at least, I think.

 

I really liked Kurcz a lot. Thought he had some good late inning potential.

 

The depressing thing, IMO, is that they couldn't take many gambles because of budget limitations (IIRC, over this period, we were in the bottom 6 or 7 in spending). For a big market team, it should be unacceptable to be that low. Most teams will miss, and miss a lot, but we should've been able to take a few more gambles to give us a better shot. I mean, we had a Huseby here, an Acosta there (what happened with Ryan again, I don't recall), a McNutt/Struck/Beeler, but we just didn't have enough gambles until the Ricketts regime began. I'd imagine most of the top 10 round arms, without spending the time to check, were probably slot.

 

The other mild comment I'd throw out there is I wonder how the 2008 draft impacted things. There was noticeable excitement from the 2008 pitching class, and it looked, early on, to fill in some pitching depth up and down the system. Looking at the Wilken era now, that was really the only pitching-intensive draft, so it makes me wonder how much did hope on those guys impact subsequent drafts in their approach.

 

____

 

As a total side note, the two guys I got really excited on, for the 2008 draft, besides Jay Jackson, were Justin Bristow and Dan McDaniel. McDaniel was a fascinating power arm that first year. The former had injuries bust him up. IIRC, McDaniel was a case where the stuff he showed just didn't carry well as a starter.

[BeerHere]

The other mild comment I'd throw out there is I wonder how the 2008 draft impacted things. There was noticeable excitement from the 2008 pitching class, and it looked, early on, to fill in some pitching depth up and down the system. Looking at the Wilken era now, that was really the only pitching-intensive draft, so it makes me wonder how much did hope on those guys impact subsequent drafts in their approach.

Good point. I think the best approach is to take the best payer available in the early rounds (1/2) without regard to their position. Not saying that hasn't been the Cubs approach under Wilken. I would hate to see them take a pile of pitchers in the next draft bypassing better positional talent to fill holes in the system. Though the new draft budget could impact that as well. If a club has $3M to spend, it may be better to spend that on two pitchers with high ceilings rather than a single 3B. I still think for a middle range system they have to take best player available.