College Football - Week 11 (Nov. 12th)

[illiniguy]

I think Oklahoma should be out now (unless a bunch of teams finish with 2 losses but that opens a huge can or worms.) and if Oklahoma State loses at all the rest of the year should be eliminated too.

 

It will be a jumbled mess if LSU drops to Arkansas somehow.

LSU dropping to Arkansas wouldn't by itself mess anything up. The SEC West 3-way tiebreaker - thanks to Stewart Mandel, I know this - is head to head among the top 2 teams of the 3 in the BCS rankings. In short, since Arkansas and Bama would surely leap past LSU if Arkansas beat the Tigers, Bama would go to the SEC title game based on head to head with Arkansas. If Bama then won the SEC title, and Okla St didn't lose a game, they'd play the Cowboys.

 

If not, Bama/Oregon would be a very interesting title game matchup.

So if LSU loses once, two teams they beat play for the title? God there needs to be a playoff.

[SouthSideRyan]

I understand that, but when 1 team beats another in the final regular-season game of the year, they should not then play again in the title game. As long as this is going to be the system in college football, then the title game shouldn't be a rematch if there's any reasonable other candidate available, because like that year and many other years have shown, we don't know for sure who the best 2 teams are after the regular season.

 

It's quite obvious you didn't understand that. Just say you hate the Big Ten Andy. It'll make your next bizarre rant go away a lot quicker.

Right, I'm the one with the conference bias when I've got Big Ten guys arguing that Big Ten teams should have played for the title in 06 when they both got annihilated against teams from other conferences after the fact.

 

Butler and VCU should've been 1 seeds last year.

[Andy]

I understand that, but when 1 team beats another in the final regular-season game of the year, they should not then play again in the title game. As long as this is going to be the system in college football, then the title game shouldn't be a rematch if there's any reasonable other candidate available, because like that year and many other years have shown, we don't know for sure who the best 2 teams are after the regular season.

 

It's quite obvious you didn't understand that. Just say you hate the Big Ten Andy. It'll make your next bizarre rant go away a lot quicker.

Right, I'm the one with the conference bias when I've got Big Ten guys arguing that Big Ten teams should have played for the title in 06 when they both got annihilated against teams from other conferences after the fact.

 

Butler and VCU should've been 1 seeds last year.

Yes, those are the exact same arguments. Thank you.

 

You know damn well that if I was making the same asinine argument you are making, but I was saying that ND was the team that should've gotten the rematch, I'd be getting shredded. And rightfully so, I might add.

[SouthSideRyan]

I understand that, but when 1 team beats another in the final regular-season game of the year, they should not then play again in the title game. As long as this is going to be the system in college football, then the title game shouldn't be a rematch if there's any reasonable other candidate available, because like that year and many other years have shown, we don't know for sure who the best 2 teams are after the regular season.

 

It's quite obvious you didn't understand that. Just say you hate the Big Ten Andy. It'll make your next bizarre rant go away a lot quicker.

Right, I'm the one with the conference bias when I've got Big Ten guys arguing that Big Ten teams should have played for the title in 06 when they both got annihilated against teams from other conferences after the fact.

 

Butler and VCU should've been 1 seeds last year.

Yes, those are the exact same arguments. Thank you.

 

You know damn well that if I was making the same asinine argument you are making, but I was saying that ND was the team that should've gotten the rematch, I'd be getting shredded. And rightfully so, I might add.

 

That's because other people hate ND like you hate the Big Ten.

[Andy]

Yes, those are the exact same arguments. Thank you.

 

You know damn well that if I was making the same asinine argument you are making, but I was saying that ND was the team that should've gotten the rematch, I'd be getting shredded. And rightfully so, I might add.

 

That's because other people hate ND like you hate the Big Ten.

Well, it's safe to say we've been reduced to a weird mud-slinging match, so I'll withdraw from this one.

[Guest]

I think Oklahoma should be out now (unless a bunch of teams finish with 2 losses but that opens a huge can or worms.) and if Oklahoma State loses at all the rest of the year should be eliminated too.

 

It will be a jumbled mess if LSU drops to Arkansas somehow.

LSU dropping to Arkansas wouldn't by itself mess anything up. The SEC West 3-way tiebreaker - thanks to Stewart Mandel, I know this - is head to head among the top 2 teams of the 3 in the BCS rankings. In short, since Arkansas and Bama would surely leap past LSU if Arkansas beat the Tigers, Bama would go to the SEC title game based on head to head with Arkansas. If Bama then won the SEC title, and Okla St didn't lose a game, they'd play the Cowboys.

 

If not, Bama/Oregon would be a very interesting title game matchup.

 

I think the only way LSU drops behind Arkansas is if they get blown out. If they lose by a TD or less, I bet the voters would keep them ahead of Arkansas. I think the view of Arkansas would be the same as of Texas Tech a couple years ago with the three way tie in the Big 12. LSU has played a much tougher schedule than Arkansas and I think that keeps them in front. Bama also stays in front because they pounded Arkansas.

 

I also agree that there's no way Oklahoma should play for the title with the loss to Texas Tech.

 

I'd love to see an LSU-Oklahoma St. matchup for the title, though.

[CubColtPacer]

I think Oklahoma should be out now (unless a bunch of teams finish with 2 losses but that opens a huge can or worms.) and if Oklahoma State loses at all the rest of the year should be eliminated too.

 

It will be a jumbled mess if LSU drops to Arkansas somehow.

LSU dropping to Arkansas wouldn't by itself mess anything up. The SEC West 3-way tiebreaker - thanks to Stewart Mandel, I know this - is head to head among the top 2 teams of the 3 in the BCS rankings. In short, since Arkansas and Bama would surely leap past LSU if Arkansas beat the Tigers, Bama would go to the SEC title game based on head to head with Arkansas. If Bama then won the SEC title, and Okla St didn't lose a game, they'd play the Cowboys.

 

If not, Bama/Oregon would be a very interesting title game matchup.

 

I think the only way LSU drops behind Arkansas is if they get blown out. If they lose by a TD or less, I bet the voters would keep them ahead of Arkansas. I think the view of Arkansas would be the same as of Texas Tech a couple years ago with the three way tie in the Big 12. LSU has played a much tougher schedule than Arkansas and I think that keeps them in front. Bama also stays in front because they pounded Arkansas.

 

I also agree that there's no way Oklahoma should play for the title with the loss to Texas Tech.

 

I'd love to see an LSU-Oklahoma St. matchup for the title, though.

 

If two teams play one excellent team and one mediocre team, and one team loses to the excellent team and beats the mediocre team, and the other team beats the excellent team and loses to the mediocre team, are you saying that makes the first team better than the second?

[CubColtPacer]

Boise did land ahead of Houston, but I forgot that the minor conference team has to be a conference champion to qualify. So Houston will likely get into the BCS unless somebody upsets TCU.

[hawkeyecub]

So has MSU been having like 12 defensive injuries (only to return the next play most of the time) per game often this year? Worthy confirmed they were mostly to slow down the offense.

 

I hope you're not suggesting that a Mark Dantonio team is anything but disciplined. ESPN would never allow me to believe such hogwash.

 

"When an offense is moving like that the smart move is to just go down and just take your time and don't kind of rush through it, but that's what we went out, that's what we went out there and did."

 

Worthy himself did this twice, each time coming back in the next play after laying down on the ground, walking off on his power at the slowest possible rate imaginable. They had 10 of these total defensively, almost all in the second half when Iowa was finally moving the ball and something like 7 of them came in on the next play.

[Exile on Waveland]

I understand that, but when 1 team beats another in the final regular-season game of the year, they should not then play again in the title game. As long as this is going to be the system in college football, then the title game shouldn't be a rematch if there's any reasonable other candidate available, because like that year and many other years have shown, we don't know for sure who the best 2 teams are after the regular season.

Alabama lost at home to LSU, they don't deserve a rematch. I don't care when the game happened. But since it's the SEC I'm sure the media will trumpet it until it happens. Thus I'm pulling for OSU to run their schedule.

No one in the media is trumpeting for a rematch at the moment. You are inventing slights that haven't happened.

 

First, I have heard some trumpeting for an LSU-Alabama rematch (if/when Oklahoma State loses). Regardless, you are still missing the point in your Big Ten-hating haze. The point is, there has been no vehement push-back against an LSU-Alabama rematch as there was against an Ohio State-Michigan rematch in 2006-07. In 2006-07, the media (and poll voters) coalesced around the idea that a rematch was unpalatable -- which, I think, has some logic -- and contrived to push Florida ahead of Michigan in the polls. To this point, no such contrivance exists against an LSU-Alabama rematch. Maybe it will eventually; but, until it does, one must wonder why.

[bcl412]

I think Oklahoma should be out now (unless a bunch of teams finish with 2 losses but that opens a huge can or worms.) and if Oklahoma State loses at all the rest of the year should be eliminated too.

 

It will be a jumbled mess if LSU drops to Arkansas somehow.

LSU dropping to Arkansas wouldn't by itself mess anything up. The SEC West 3-way tiebreaker - thanks to Stewart Mandel, I know this - is head to head among the top 2 teams of the 3 in the BCS rankings. In short, since Arkansas and Bama would surely leap past LSU if Arkansas beat the Tigers, Bama would go to the SEC title game based on head to head with Arkansas. If Bama then won the SEC title, and Okla St didn't lose a game, they'd play the Cowboys.

 

If not, Bama/Oregon would be a very interesting title game matchup.

 

I think the only way LSU drops behind Arkansas is if they get blown out. If they lose by a TD or less, I bet the voters would keep them ahead of Arkansas. I think the view of Arkansas would be the same as of Texas Tech a couple years ago with the three way tie in the Big 12. LSU has played a much tougher schedule than Arkansas and I think that keeps them in front. Bama also stays in front because they pounded Arkansas.

 

I also agree that there's no way Oklahoma should play for the title with the loss to Texas Tech.

 

I'd love to see an LSU-Oklahoma St. matchup for the title, though.

 

If two teams play one excellent team and one mediocre team, and one team loses to the excellent team and beats the mediocre team, and the other team beats the excellent team and loses to the mediocre team, are you saying that makes the first team better than the second?

 

I don't think it makes them better but it makes them more deserving of being ranked higher if the team that lost to the excellent team has a good resume.

[Guest]

I think Oklahoma should be out now (unless a bunch of teams finish with 2 losses but that opens a huge can or worms.) and if Oklahoma State loses at all the rest of the year should be eliminated too.

 

It will be a jumbled mess if LSU drops to Arkansas somehow.

LSU dropping to Arkansas wouldn't by itself mess anything up. The SEC West 3-way tiebreaker - thanks to Stewart Mandel, I know this - is head to head among the top 2 teams of the 3 in the BCS rankings. In short, since Arkansas and Bama would surely leap past LSU if Arkansas beat the Tigers, Bama would go to the SEC title game based on head to head with Arkansas. If Bama then won the SEC title, and Okla St didn't lose a game, they'd play the Cowboys.

 

If not, Bama/Oregon would be a very interesting title game matchup.

 

I think the only way LSU drops behind Arkansas is if they get blown out. If they lose by a TD or less, I bet the voters would keep them ahead of Arkansas. I think the view of Arkansas would be the same as of Texas Tech a couple years ago with the three way tie in the Big 12. LSU has played a much tougher schedule than Arkansas and I think that keeps them in front. Bama also stays in front because they pounded Arkansas.

 

I also agree that there's no way Oklahoma should play for the title with the loss to Texas Tech.

 

I'd love to see an LSU-Oklahoma St. matchup for the title, though.

 

If two teams play one excellent team and one mediocre team, and one team loses to the excellent team and beats the mediocre team, and the other team beats the excellent team and loses to the mediocre team, are you saying that makes the first team better than the second?

 

Are you comparing Bama to LSU? Because that's not what I was doing at all.

 

I'm saying that I don't think an LSU loss kills their chances at the SEC title game and the BCS title game. I think if LSU loses by a TD or less to Arkansas, that the voters and computers will still keep LSU ahead of Arkansas (as well they should because they still have a better resume). That means according to the tiebreaker, it would be H2H between LSU and Bama and since LSU won, they'd go to the SEC title game over Bama. If Arkansas rips LSU, then I think it goes the other way with the SEC teams being ranked Bama-Arkansas-LSU.

[CubColtPacer]

I think Oklahoma should be out now (unless a bunch of teams finish with 2 losses but that opens a huge can or worms.) and if Oklahoma State loses at all the rest of the year should be eliminated too.

 

It will be a jumbled mess if LSU drops to Arkansas somehow.

LSU dropping to Arkansas wouldn't by itself mess anything up. The SEC West 3-way tiebreaker - thanks to Stewart Mandel, I know this - is head to head among the top 2 teams of the 3 in the BCS rankings. In short, since Arkansas and Bama would surely leap past LSU if Arkansas beat the Tigers, Bama would go to the SEC title game based on head to head with Arkansas. If Bama then won the SEC title, and Okla St didn't lose a game, they'd play the Cowboys.

 

If not, Bama/Oregon would be a very interesting title game matchup.

 

I think the only way LSU drops behind Arkansas is if they get blown out. If they lose by a TD or less, I bet the voters would keep them ahead of Arkansas. I think the view of Arkansas would be the same as of Texas Tech a couple years ago with the three way tie in the Big 12. LSU has played a much tougher schedule than Arkansas and I think that keeps them in front. Bama also stays in front because they pounded Arkansas.

 

I also agree that there's no way Oklahoma should play for the title with the loss to Texas Tech.

 

I'd love to see an LSU-Oklahoma St. matchup for the title, though.

 

If two teams play one excellent team and one mediocre team, and one team loses to the excellent team and beats the mediocre team, and the other team beats the excellent team and loses to the mediocre team, are you saying that makes the first team better than the second?

 

Are you comparing Bama to LSU? Because that's not what I was doing at all.

 

I'm saying that I don't think an LSU loss kills their chances at the SEC title game and the BCS title game. I think if LSU loses by a TD or less to Arkansas, that the voters and computers will still keep LSU ahead of Arkansas (as well they should because they still have a better resume). That means according to the tiebreaker, it would be H2H between LSU and Bama and since LSU won, they'd go to the SEC title game over Bama. If Arkansas rips LSU, then I think it goes the other way with the SEC teams being ranked Bama-Arkansas-LSU.

 

I'm saying if Oklahoma has played a stronger schedule then somebody like Alabama or Oregon, then what does it matter who they lost to? That means they have a worse loss, but that also means they have better wins overall.

 

And I agree with you that the computers will keep LSU ahead of Arkansas with a loss. I'm not quite sure what the polls will do. Arkansas would really benefit from a loss by Oklahoma or Oregon in that scenario because the closer they are to LSU going into that game, the more temptation there will be to drop LSU behind Arkansas (the old drop with a loss but don't drop too far theory of the pollsters).

[Andy]

I think Oklahoma should be out now (unless a bunch of teams finish with 2 losses but that opens a huge can or worms.) and if Oklahoma State loses at all the rest of the year should be eliminated too.

 

It will be a jumbled mess if LSU drops to Arkansas somehow.

LSU dropping to Arkansas wouldn't by itself mess anything up. The SEC West 3-way tiebreaker - thanks to Stewart Mandel, I know this - is head to head among the top 2 teams of the 3 in the BCS rankings. In short, since Arkansas and Bama would surely leap past LSU if Arkansas beat the Tigers, Bama would go to the SEC title game based on head to head with Arkansas. If Bama then won the SEC title, and Okla St didn't lose a game, they'd play the Cowboys.

 

If not, Bama/Oregon would be a very interesting title game matchup.

 

I think the only way LSU drops behind Arkansas is if they get blown out. If they lose by a TD or less, I bet the voters would keep them ahead of Arkansas. I think the view of Arkansas would be the same as of Texas Tech a couple years ago with the three way tie in the Big 12. LSU has played a much tougher schedule than Arkansas and I think that keeps them in front. Bama also stays in front because they pounded Arkansas.

 

I also agree that there's no way Oklahoma should play for the title with the loss to Texas Tech.

 

I'd love to see an LSU-Oklahoma St. matchup for the title, though.

Would Arkansas leap past Alabama if they beat LSU? If they somehow landed in between LSU and Bama, then the Razorbacks would play for the SEC title, which could change things.

[Andy]

I understand that, but when 1 team beats another in the final regular-season game of the year, they should not then play again in the title game. As long as this is going to be the system in college football, then the title game shouldn't be a rematch if there's any reasonable other candidate available, because like that year and many other years have shown, we don't know for sure who the best 2 teams are after the regular season.

Alabama lost at home to LSU, they don't deserve a rematch. I don't care when the game happened. But since it's the SEC I'm sure the media will trumpet it until it happens. Thus I'm pulling for OSU to run their schedule.

No one in the media is trumpeting for a rematch at the moment. You are inventing slights that haven't happened.

 

First, I have heard some trumpeting for an LSU-Alabama rematch (if/when Oklahoma State loses). Regardless, you are still missing the point in your Big Ten-hating haze. The point is, there has been no vehement push-back against an LSU-Alabama rematch as there was against an Ohio State-Michigan rematch in 2006-07. In 2006-07, the media (and poll voters) coalesced around the idea that a rematch was unpalatable -- which, I think, has some logic -- and contrived to push Florida ahead of Michigan in the polls. To this point, no such contrivance exists against an LSU-Alabama rematch. Maybe it will eventually; but, until it does, one must wonder why.

The 'Big Ten hating haze' is your guys' reading of the situation. I only pointed out that Big Ten fans are the only ones still bitter about that because you are the only ones still bitter about it, not because of the all-consuming hatred I allegedly have for your conference.

 

You don't know what the voters' reaction will/would be to the specter of an LSU/Bama rematch unless those two are again 1-2 going into the final weeks of the season (and nor do I), which is why I told illiniguy he was inventing slights that hadn't happened. I can tell you this, I'd be shocked if there wasn't a no-rematch push just like there was in 06. I'd bet anything on Oklahoma playing the Florida role and jumping up to #2 in that scenario. If the voters really do allow an LSU/Bama rematch, then by all means rip the system to shreds, because if that happens you'll have a point.

[Guest]

I'm saying if Oklahoma has played a stronger schedule then somebody like Alabama or Oregon, then what does it matter who they lost to? That means they have a worse loss, but that also means they have better wins overall.

 

And I agree with you that the computers will keep LSU ahead of Arkansas with a loss. I'm not quite sure what the polls will do. Arkansas would really benefit from a loss by Oklahoma or Oregon in that scenario because the closer they are to LSU going into that game, the more temptation there will be to drop LSU behind Arkansas (the old drop with a loss but don't drop too far theory of the pollsters).

 

Because we're not just talking about an everyday loss. This isn't Oregon losing to LSU. This isn't Bama losing to LSU. Texas Tech is a bad team and Oklahoma lost to them at home. It's an embarrassing loss. Compare that to Bama and Oregon's losses to LSU (or if it happens, LSU's to Arkansas) and it's not even close. To me the slight advantage in schedule strength (LSU and Bama are 18 and 20 while Oregon is 26) is outweighed by how bad the loss is. Bama is still way ahead of Oklahoma according to Sagarin and I'd guess that if LSU loses a tight one to Arkansas, they'd still be ahead of Oklahoma also. Oregon is likely to still be behind Oklahoma because Oklahoma would have to beat Oklahoma St to be in this discussion and that would be a much better win than anything Oregon can get so you'd have an argument there. But I would still rather see Oregon than Oklahoma.

 

On a related note, I don't agree with Sagarin's rankings of some of the non-Oklahoma Big 12 teams. I don't think Kansas State, Missouri and Texas are the 10th, 11th and 13th best teams in the nation, which I guess is why I don't find Oklahoma's schedule/resume to be as impressive.

[Guest]

I think Oklahoma should be out now (unless a bunch of teams finish with 2 losses but that opens a huge can or worms.) and if Oklahoma State loses at all the rest of the year should be eliminated too.

 

It will be a jumbled mess if LSU drops to Arkansas somehow.

LSU dropping to Arkansas wouldn't by itself mess anything up. The SEC West 3-way tiebreaker - thanks to Stewart Mandel, I know this - is head to head among the top 2 teams of the 3 in the BCS rankings. In short, since Arkansas and Bama would surely leap past LSU if Arkansas beat the Tigers, Bama would go to the SEC title game based on head to head with Arkansas. If Bama then won the SEC title, and Okla St didn't lose a game, they'd play the Cowboys.

 

If not, Bama/Oregon would be a very interesting title game matchup.

 

I think the only way LSU drops behind Arkansas is if they get blown out. If they lose by a TD or less, I bet the voters would keep them ahead of Arkansas. I think the view of Arkansas would be the same as of Texas Tech a couple years ago with the three way tie in the Big 12. LSU has played a much tougher schedule than Arkansas and I think that keeps them in front. Bama also stays in front because they pounded Arkansas.

 

I also agree that there's no way Oklahoma should play for the title with the loss to Texas Tech.

 

I'd love to see an LSU-Oklahoma St. matchup for the title, though.

Would Arkansas leap past Alabama if they beat LSU? If they somehow landed in between LSU and Bama, then the Razorbacks would play for the SEC title, which could change things.

 

I don't think they'll jump Bama unless they absolutely demolish LSU, which becomes irrelevant anyway because Bama won the head to head. Basically, I think Bama ends up either No. 1 or 2 out of those three SEC teams so its either going to be them or LSU that makes the title game regardless of the outcome.

[Exile on Waveland]

The 'Big Ten hating haze' is your guys' reading of the situation. I only pointed out that Big Ten fans are the only ones still bitter about that because you are the only ones still bitter about it, not because of the all-consuming hatred I allegedly have for your conference.

 

I'm not bitter. At all. I didn't/don't care about either team. All I expect is fair treatment between conferences (i.e., the SEC this year). You'll have to excuse me if I find that prospect to be rather dubious.