Hoyer, McLeod officially join Cubs

[jersey cubs fan]

just manager

[UK1679666180]

(Unless Tampa loves Jackson, which he doesn't fit their profile for a CF'er) Why would a team with an entire new structure that is stressing to build from within, is now looking to trade their top prospect? It should raise a red flag.

 

1 - What's their profile of a CF? Jackson probably lags behind defensively what they want if that's what you're thinking, and I can agree with that. That said, they have very rangy OF guys with Jennings out there in LF and possibly Guyer out there in RF next year.

 

2 - The answer to your question is that trading Jackson does not make or break that ultra vague "build from within" plan, Jackson is pretty mid-range for a top prospect, and there are alot of guys who came from within the farm system that are now useable players here. Soto, Barney, the bullpen, and then one of the best young SSs in baseball sounds like within to me. It's such a vague and general description that it's possible to include trading away Cubs' prospects and players for better players when possible in the "build from within" category, isn't it? It's using what they have already to get what they don't have but want.

 

Despite Tampa's supposed MO under Friedman, they are one of the more toolsy organizations in MLB. Jackson isn't athletic enough for what they look for in a CF. Joyce will out there in RF.

 

The Cubs are in a rebuilding mode and while Tampa could very well unload Upton one year early rather than one year late, I still wonder why the Cubs would want to trade for another CF'er beyond valuing Upton more than Jackson (which on the surface, makes sense as Jackson likely won't duplicate Upton's ceiling). That includes factoring some of Upton's numbers falling short of expectations.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

Despite Tampa's supposed MO under Friedman, they are one of the more toolsy organizations in MLB. Jackson isn't athletic enough for what they look for in a CF. Joyce will out there in RF.

 

The Cubs are in a rebuilding mode and while Tampa could very well unload Upton one year early rather than one year late, I still wonder why the Cubs would want to trade for another CF'er beyond valuing Upton more than Jackson (which on the surface, makes sense as Jackson likely won't duplicate Upton's ceiling). That includes factoring some of Upton's numbers falling short of expectations.

 

1 - It's not despite their MO under Friedman that they go after tools laden athletes. Tools and athleticism are a big part of what they do over there. Brett Jackson was a guy who was drafted for his tools.

 

2 - Valuing Upton more than Jackson is all the reason the Cubs would need to make the deal. The fact that Upton is a really good player with a varied skillset who is just entering his prime years might also play into someone coveting him on the trade market. The Rays would save the money they want to save, and they get a cheap player to replace him with. The major wrench in that is that Jennings might be their long term CF.

Edited November 3, 2011 by KingKongvs.Godzilla

[sneakypower]

(Unless Tampa loves Jackson, which he doesn't fit their profile for a CF'er) Why would a team with an entire new structure that is stressing to build from within, is now looking to trade their top prospect? It should raise a red flag.

 

1 - What's their profile of a CF? Jackson probably lags behind defensively what they want if that's what you're thinking, and I can agree with that. That said, they have very rangy OF guys with Jennings out there in LF and possibly Guyer out there in RF next year.

 

2 - The answer to your question is that trading Jackson does not make or break that ultra vague "build from within" plan, Jackson is pretty mid-range for a top prospect, and there are alot of guys who came from within the farm system that are now useable players here. Soto, Barney, the bullpen, and then one of the best young SSs in baseball sounds like within to me. It's such a vague and general description that it's possible to include trading away Cubs' prospects and players for better players when possible in the "build from within" category, isn't it? It's using what they have already to get what they don't have but want.

 

Despite Tampa's supposed MO under Friedman, they are one of the more toolsy organizations in MLB. Jackson isn't athletic enough for what they look for in a CF. Joyce will out there in RF.

 

The Cubs are in a rebuilding mode and while Tampa could very well unload Upton one year early rather than one year late, I still wonder why the Cubs would want to trade for another CF'er beyond valuing Upton more than Jackson (which on the surface, makes sense as Jackson likely won't duplicate Upton's ceiling). That includes factoring some of Upton's numbers falling short of expectations.

CFs are allowed to play corner OF positions, too- it happens pretty often now

[UK1679666180]

Despite Tampa's supposed MO under Friedman, they are one of the more toolsy organizations in MLB. Jackson isn't athletic enough for what they look for in a CF. Joyce will out there in RF.

 

The Cubs are in a rebuilding mode and while Tampa could very well unload Upton one year early rather than one year late, I still wonder why the Cubs would want to trade for another CF'er beyond valuing Upton more than Jackson (which on the surface, makes sense as Jackson likely won't duplicate Upton's ceiling). That includes factoring some of Upton's numbers falling short of expectations.

 

1 - It's not despite their MO under Friedman that they go after tools laden athletes. Tools and athleticism are a big part of what they do over there. Brett Jackson was a guy who was drafted for his tools.

 

2 - Valuing Upton more than Jackson is all the reason the Cubs would need to make the deal. The Rays would save the money they want to save, and they get a cheap player to replace him with. The major wrench in that is that Jennings might be their long term CF.

 

I know what Tampa looks for.

 

They likely would've been turned off by the lack of contact coming out of Cal and it probably still cont. It's why I was shocked when they signed Burrell as a FA after '08.

[Guest]

Szczur seems much more of a Tampa style player than bjax.

[UK1679666180]

Szczur seems much more of a Tampa style player than bjax.

 

That, I would agree with.

[UK1679666180]

(Unless Tampa loves Jackson, which he doesn't fit their profile for a CF'er) Why would a team with an entire new structure that is stressing to build from within, is now looking to trade their top prospect? It should raise a red flag.

 

1 - What's their profile of a CF? Jackson probably lags behind defensively what they want if that's what you're thinking, and I can agree with that. That said, they have very rangy OF guys with Jennings out there in LF and possibly Guyer out there in RF next year.

 

2 - The answer to your question is that trading Jackson does not make or break that ultra vague "build from within" plan, Jackson is pretty mid-range for a top prospect, and there are alot of guys who came from within the farm system that are now useable players here. Soto, Barney, the bullpen, and then one of the best young SSs in baseball sounds like within to me. It's such a vague and general description that it's possible to include trading away Cubs' prospects and players for better players when possible in the "build from within" category, isn't it? It's using what they have already to get what they don't have but want.

 

Despite Tampa's supposed MO under Friedman, they are one of the more toolsy organizations in MLB. Jackson isn't athletic enough for what they look for in a CF. Joyce will out there in RF.

 

The Cubs are in a rebuilding mode and while Tampa could very well unload Upton one year early rather than one year late, I still wonder why the Cubs would want to trade for another CF'er beyond valuing Upton more than Jackson (which on the surface, makes sense as Jackson likely won't duplicate Upton's ceiling). That includes factoring some of Upton's numbers falling short of expectations.

CFs are allowed to play corner OF positions, too- it happens pretty often now

 

Thanks for the update, you blew my mind with that one.

 

Jackson's value drops considerably putting him on the corners.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

CFs are allowed to play corner OF positions, too- it happens pretty often now

 

Brett Jackson probably can't hit enough to justify a corner spot.

[jersey cubs fan]

CFs are allowed to play corner OF positions, too- it happens pretty often now

 

Brett Jackson probably can't hit enough to justify a corner spot.

 

maybe on a .500 team

[Hairyducked Idiot]

CFs are allowed to play corner OF positions, too- it happens pretty often now

 

Brett Jackson probably can't hit enough to justify a corner spot.

 

maybe on a .500 team

 

Let him play here for 10 years and you'll be distraught at the idea of him leaving, no matter how much money he wants.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

Szczur seems much more of a Tampa style player than bjax.

 

Very true but Im a little less into the idea of giving him up...then again to land even the lesser Upton, who's a damn good CFer....

[sneakypower]

CFs are allowed to play corner OF positions, too- it happens pretty often now

 

Brett Jackson probably can't hit enough to justify a corner spot.

 

maybe on a .500 team

by this stupid (outdated) illogic, the team with the best record in the AL has two corner OFs who can't hit enough to justify a corner spot

[Hairyducked Idiot]

by this stupid (outdated) illogic, the team with the best record in the AL has two corner OFs who can't hit enough to justify a corner spot

 

You are expecting a lot of .822 OPS seasons out of Jackson?

 

Anyway, yeah, you can get away with a weaker hitter in LF if you spend eleventy billion dollars on the best CF, 1b, and 3b money can buy. That doesn't make it right.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Although holy carp, UZR loves Brett Gardner more than Ricketts loves Theo.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I had no idea Cashman was out breaking laws.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

Although holy carp, UZR loves Brett Gardner more than Ricketts loves Theo.

 

Yeah, it's something I don't get. I think Gardener is a good defensive OFer but I have not understood the hype he gets there. OTOH It does explain why the Yankees put up with his bat...as does their other bats, his OBP, his SB quantity, and his SB%....best #9 hitter in baseball.

Edited November 3, 2011 by KingKongvs.Godzilla

[sneakypower]

by this stupid (outdated) illogic, the team with the best record in the AL has two corner OFs who can't hit enough to justify a corner spot

 

You are expecting a lot of .822 OPS seasons out of Jackson?

MiLB career:

 

Brett Jackson (20-22) - .884 OPS

Nick Swisher (21-23) - .857 OPS

[Hairyducked Idiot]

by this stupid (outdated) illogic, the team with the best record in the AL has two corner OFs who can't hit enough to justify a corner spot

 

You are expecting a lot of .822 OPS seasons out of Jackson?

MiLB career:

 

Brett Jackson (20-22) - .884 OPS

Nick Swisher (21-23) - .857 OPS

 

Intriguing comp! The two minuses for Jackson in that comp (besides being a year older) are more K's at the same age and Swisher's getting better at every level while Jackson gets a bit worse.

[imb]

by this stupid (outdated) illogic, the team with the best record in the AL has two corner OFs who can't hit enough to justify a corner spot

 

You are expecting a lot of .822 OPS seasons out of Jackson?

MiLB career:

 

Brett Jackson (20-22) - .884 OPS

Nick Swisher (21-23) - .857 OPS

 

Intriguing comp! The two minuses for Jackson in that comp (besides being a year older)

 

???

[Hairyducked Idiot]

???

 

Don't be a time racist. We don't all go in the same direction here.

[imb]

http://i.imgur.com/QCYQP.jpg

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Trying again with (hopefully) less fail

 

Nick Swisher age 22: 125 Ks in 573 PAs at A+ and AA

 

Brett Jackson age 22: 138 Ks in 512 PAs at AA and AAA

 

Given the difference in levels, I think those are comparable enough. Swisher took a huge leap forward at age 23, so let's hope Jackson does too.

[MSG T]

by this stupid (outdated) illogic, the team with the best record in the AL has two corner OFs who can't hit enough to justify a corner spot

 

You are expecting a lot of .822 OPS seasons out of Jackson?

MiLB career:

 

Brett Jackson (20-22) - .884 OPS

Nick Swisher (21-23) - .857 OPS

 

Intriguing comp! The two minuses for Jackson in that comp (besides being a year older) are more K's at the same age and Swisher's getting better at every level while Jackson gets a bit worse.

 

 

??

 

Not saying they are exact matches or anything, but..

 

Jackson dropped when he first got to each level, but, so did Swisher.

 

Jackson's Ks at 21 came at A+ (312 PAs) and AA (268 PAs), Swisher's age 21 Ks were at A-(60 PAs) and A+ (214 PAs).

 

Jackson was generally a year younger at each stop than Swisher, not older. And their numbers at each stop aren't that different. Granted, that's not accounting for league difficulty, which would account for better numbers at some of the stops for either.

[MSG T]

Trying again with (hopefully) less fail

 

Nick Swisher age 22: 125 Ks in 573 PAs at A+ and AA

 

Brett Jackson age 22: 138 Ks in 512 PAs at AA and AAA

 

Given the difference in levels, I think those are comparable enough. Swisher took a huge leap forward at age 23, so let's hope Jackson does too.

 

 

That's better. I was wondering what you were looking at.