Re: New GM/Cubs Future News Articles

[dew1679666265]

There was more to that quote that is quite a good point. If Bud Selig gives the Red Sox Garza, which he wont, can you imagine the next time a highly regarded executive discusses a contract extension? "Theo was worth a $10 million pitcher, I should be making $8 million based on that."

 

That is a good point. I still think they should use the MacPhail hiring as precedent and try to closely match that, but if it goes to Bud I think it'll end up being a bit more than that.

[toonsterwu]

Two quick comments as I haven't skimmed this thread in a long, long time -

 

a) Keeping Zambrano is the most sensible move from a talent perspective. We simply won't get enough savings on any Zambrano deal (if any probably needs to be tagged onto that), and Zambrano, at worst, is still a decent 4th/5th starter who has occasional flashes. The question becomes if removing Zambrano at all costs will improve the team more than his value as a 4th/5th starter, and that's something that we can take some guesses at, but can't know for sure (and while there's new people in place, there's still a lot of the old guard left around, and how Ricketts feels about keeping him is another factor). I tend to think keeping him for the start of the season is the best course of action, and then if he causes problems, you just cut the cord and move on. I highly doubt we'll get any significant savings in any offseason trade, and it's better to take a risk to see if he can provide some value and perhaps deal him midseason.

 

b) The Olney quote is interesting - the full quote suggests that asking for two top prospects is too much (which also blasts a hole in the idiotic commentary on the Red Sox boards that still seem to think the Marlins legitimately gave two top prospects for Ozzie). It, though, doesn't say anything about giving up one top prospect. Someone noted this a few posts up (or somewhere else) - I tend to think this is a deal where both fan bases may end up unhappy if it heads to Selig. Of course, Olney could be speculating or making stuff up and have no real basis for his speculation, but it was an interesting thing that caught my eye.

[JeffH]

Zambrano can stay, assuming Ricketts doesn't force the issue and they hire an actual major league manager and not a human nickname generator.

[jersey cubs fan]

Leery?

[Conky]

It was a promotion.

 

SOSH and many in Red Sox Nation fail to grasp this concept. There has been no "raiding" of another team's front office here. There was a request and a situation where the BoSox granted permission for another organization to speak to one of their employees regarding a possible promotion. The Red Sox would have set new precedent by denying permission. Henry admitted as much. Which is funny, and a bit ironic, given the fact that they decided to instead attempt to set precedent for allowing an employee to accept a promotion with another club and yet reap compensation.

 

Simply stated, you don't attempt to block or seek compensation for valued employees seeking to further their individual careers. If the situation dictates, the current employer does what they can to retain said employee if there is a threat of them leaving/ moving. That did not happen here. Where is the attempt by the Red Sox to retain Theo? There was none. Further, precedent in MLB says no compensation should be given when one team in the old boy network seeks to hire someone from another club, and is offering a promotion. Normal real world business practices concur.

 

Those saying the Cubs did the deal backwards are equally wrong. Please explain the process where I ask permission to talk to your employee about possibly coming to work for me. That conversation apparently cannot gauge interest or willingness of said employee in my organization. I like your employee. I come back to you, seek a deal of compensation with you for letting your employee out of his contract. Then and only then do we see if the employee wants to change jobs/ move to a different city/ alter the course of their lives etc.

 

Makes no sense. But this is the Red Sox and Henry/ Lucchino we're talking about after all.

 

Hopefully if the Cubs win a couple World Series titles, we do not become that jaded as a fan base.

[dew1679666265]

Further, precedent in MLB says no compensation should be given when one team in the old boy network seeks to hire someone from another club, and is offering a promotion.

 

This is the only thing I disagree with. When the Cubs hired Andy MacPhail from the Twins, we gave an A-ball prospect. That would be the exact precedent for this situation.

[Conky]

Further, precedent in MLB says no compensation should be given when one team in the old boy network seeks to hire someone from another club, and is offering a promotion.

 

This is the only thing I disagree with. When the Cubs hired Andy MacPhail from the Twins, we gave an A-ball prospect. That would be the exact precedent for this situation.

 

Agreed, Dew. I didn't mention that one transaction because it is an outlier in the history of the game. To my knowledge, this is the ONLY time compensation has ever been paid for an executive receiving a promotion and moving to another team. Not sure that is enough to set precedent, given the number of times no compensation was given for such moves. But in fairness to the people in Boston who think they are somehow being raided, it should be mentioned. Good call.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Since today was Seligs imposed deadline before he steps in, should we be hearing a resolution in the next few days?

[Guest]

Since today was Seligs imposed deadline before he steps in, should we be hearing a resolution in the next few days?

I'm anticipating a busy day tomorrow between the press conference for Hoyer / McLeod, Selig determining compensation and various announcements around baseball.

[Banedon]

Since today was Seligs imposed deadline before he steps in, should we be hearing a resolution in the next few days?

I'm anticipating a busy day tomorrow between the press conference for Hoyer / McLeod, Selig determining compensation and various announcements around baseball.

 

I wonder if we could get get an announcement about the compensation issue during the Hoyer PC.

[Guest]

Since today was Seligs imposed deadline before he steps in, should we be hearing a resolution in the next few days?

I'm anticipating a busy day tomorrow between the press conference for Hoyer / McLeod, Selig determining compensation and various announcements around baseball.

 

I wonder if we could get get an announcement about the compensation issue during the Hoyer PC.

I think the Cubs will want Hoyer to have his time in the spotlight rather than making it about Theo again.

[dew1679666265]

I wonder if Selig will just make a decree stating what the Red Sox will get or if he'll hear both sides' argument and then take a day or two to think and then make a decision?

 

How he goes about the process could determine how long it is before we hear.

[Conky]

I agree. I read it like the deadline has passed, so Selig will now have to be involved. Process/ time frame TBD. Though I doubt this takes very long. Selig has had time and knows what he wants to do. Just my take.

 

On one hand, kinda surprised that Theo/ Cherington couldn't come to a deal that saves face for both sides (Boston). On the other, not so much, as we know by now who runs the negotiations in Boston and how unreasonable their thought process is. Not at all hard to see why Theo butted heads with Lucchino and what ultimately drove him out.

 

The interesting thing to see will be whether Cherington has any real power moving forward. From here, it looks like he is nothing but a fall guy for the next failed free agent fiasco or Boston black eye. Henry/ Lucchino will continue to dream up scenarios to try to compete with the Bronx, look for ways to blame employees for ownership failure.

 

Could be wrong, of course. All speculation for outsiders.

[Guest]

http://mlblogsvineline.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/001_vl1111_no-box_epsteincover.jpg?w=555&h=672

 

 

At times like this, I wish I still had that subscription to Vineline that I had when I was 13.

[Sammy Sofa]

The game through Marlon Byrd's eyes would be terrifying.

[Guest]

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?topic_id=8641770&c_id=chc

 

There's a video at this link where he expands a little bit on the parallel front thing he talked about at the PC.

[jersey cubs fan]

I wonder if Selig will just make a decree stating what the Red Sox will get or if he'll hear both sides' argument and then take a day or two to think and then make a decision?

 

How he goes about the process could determine how long it is before we hear.

 

I'm assuming it will be somewhat similar to a player's arbitration hearing, where they each give a number and the arbiter decides which one to accept.

 

The Cubs can offer what they think is fair, Boston can offer what they think is fair, and Selig can decide. Theoretically that would force both teams to keep the demands "fair" so as to give them a better chance to win.

[Banedon]

lol...SoSH on how the negotiation for compensation will go from this point....

 

Ben: Man, you're [expletive] awesome. Like, totally ridiculously rad, dude. This is a total coup for the Cubs, and they've got you for 5 [expletive] years!! Boston deserves Chicago's top three prospects at the very least.

 

Theo: Uhhh... No, I'm not. Actually, I suck. Like, wicked bad. Everything good that happened while I was there was Lucchino's doing. Everything bad -- I mean, did you even see Lackey pitch this year? Crawford?? Lugo??? -- was completely my fault. My employers shouldn't have to give up anything more than a bucket of monkey [expletive] for me. In fact, the Red Sox should give the Cubs a prospect or two for getting my lame ass off their 2012 books.

 

Haha...sounds like this was pretty accurate!

 

"It's a difficult deal to work out because it's too hard to quantify the value of Theo Epstein," Cherington said. "I have an idea of it, and Theo doesn't think he's worth as much as I do. We haven't been able to bridge that gap yet."

[Theo]

So our fate is in the hands of the worst commissioner in pro sports, just great.

[Little Slide Rooter]

So our fate is in the hands of the worst commissioner in pro sports, just great.

 

Our entire fate huh? Sounds like somewhat of an over reaction.

[NeifiIsMyHomeBoy]

So our fate is in the hands of the worst commissioner in pro sports, just great.

 

You're really selling Gary Bettman short.

[El Duderino]

So our fate is in the hands of the worst commissioner in pro sports, just great.

 

You're really selling Gary Bettman short.

 

damn, beat me to it.

[jersey cubs fan]

So our fate is in the hands of the worst commissioner in pro sports, just great.

 

You're really selling Gary Bettman short.

 

damn, beat me to it.

 

Did Stern retire?

[apete6]

So our fate is in the hands of the worst commissioner in pro sports, just great.

 

You're really selling Gary Bettman short.

 

damn, beat me to it.

 

Did Stern retire?

 

Yeah, at the moment, you could make an argument for Selig to be the best pro commissioner. Goodell handled the lockout OK, but has made some dumb decisions as well (cramming London down our throats, the lockout in general, a few of the licensing issues with the NFL aren't great, too much preseason, etc...).

 

Bud has his problems (AS Game, replay, awful YouTube policy, blackouts, etc...), but he's also been primarily responsible for the Wild Card, realignment, MLB Network, solid attendance, etc. Better than Bettman and currently better than Stern.

[NeifiIsMyHomeBoy]

With the power of the player's union in MLB compared to the other leagues, it really is amazing that Selig has been able to avoid a work stoppage for 17 years, especially when implementing measures such as drug testing. Stern has presided over every work stoppage in the NBA while Bettman has lost an entire NHL season, and managed to lose a national ESPN contract in favor of a second rate cable channel. I'd easily put Bud ahead of both of them.