Re: New GM/Cubs Future News Articles

[Hollandsworths mug]

Honest question. What has McNutt done?

 

I know you're finding this extraordinarily difficult, but McNutt is not, nor has he ever been, the point. The point is that if Boston is demanding actual value like Garza/McNutt when they've already agreed to let him interview for a job where he gets more money and a promotion, and they'd have to pay huge money to keep a pissed off Theo for one year if it didn't go through, and they've already leaked that they've promoted a new GM, then they are out of their minds.

 

And I agree with you 100% that the Red Sox are being douches here. And I did not say I wanted to give up on McNutt. However, we have proclaimed far too many Cubs prospects to be: "untouchable" only to see them flop.

Edited October 17, 2011 by Hollandsworth's mug

[C.C.]

No, I get that, but I see Hahn's name get mentioned and I don't get why? It's not like the farm system is bursting with talent (I'm sure he's part of the drafting). I just don't know why he's even in the discussion of our next GM.

[davearm2]

You mean if the Cubs put McNutt on eBay, what would other MLB teams bid?

 

Something on par with what gets spent on high draft picks and top international guys, I suppose.

 

$1M? $2M?

 

What's the correct answer?

 

A lot higher.

 

McNutt is older than your basic draft pick, has had more success closer to the big leagues, and the signing of draft picks is artificially lowered by their inability to negotiate with multiple teams.

Let's just assume you're right, and a well-regarded AA prospect is worth $10M.

 

In that case, what is the monetary value of a GM with a stellar record of drafting and developing many of those well-regarded AA prospects?

 

Less than the value of one such prospect? Really?

[minnesotacubsfan]

No, I get that, but I see Hahn's name get mentioned and I don't get why? It's not like the farm system is bursting with talent (I'm sure he's part of the drafting). I just don't know why he's even in the discussion of our next GM.

 

someone has to take the credit for the 2005 WS win, and hell be damned if its Ozzie or Williams

[SouthSideRyan]

You mean if the Cubs put McNutt on eBay, what would other MLB teams bid?

 

Something on par with what gets spent on high draft picks and top international guys, I suppose.

 

$1M? $2M?

 

What's the correct answer?

 

A lot higher.

 

McNutt is older than your basic draft pick, has had more success closer to the big leagues, and the signing of draft picks is artificially lowered by their inability to negotiate with multiple teams.

Let's just assume you're right, and a well-regarded AA prospect is worth $10M.

 

In that case, what is the monetary value of a GM with a stellar record of drafting and developing many of those well-regarded AA prospects?

 

Less than the value of one such prospect? Really?

 

Do you think Theo would get 10M/Y if he were a free agent?

 

ETA: Hi Gooney

[Hairyducked Idiot]

And I agree with you 100% that the Red Sox are being douches here. And I did not say I wanted to give up on McNutt. Hwoever, we have proclaimed far too many Cubs prospects to be: "untouchable" only to see them flop.

 

The fact that you think Corey Patterson was ultimately a flop shows that you are fantastically misunderstanding baseball teams and player value.

 

Would it have been cool if Patterson hadn't hurt his knee or had developed some plate discipline or something? Sure.

 

But the Cubs got several starting-caliber seasons out of him for a fraction of the money it would have cost to go out and get a free agent.

 

Imagine the 2012 Cubs only had to pay Marlon Byrd and Ryan Dempster $500k each. That's what you get out of prospects who can step in to the big leagues and be adequate.

Edited October 17, 2011 by Hairyducked Idiot

[Hairyducked Idiot]

 

In that case, what is the monetary value of a GM with a stellar record of drafting and developing many of those well-regarded AA prospects?

 

That's pretty easy. 5 years/$18.5 million.

[Hollandsworths mug]

And none of us know if McNutt is indeed the piece the Red Sox want. The story about them wanting Garza (a guy who has been a stud) is where you draw the line. But for McNutt, GMAB.

 

Okay, what do you believe the value of a well-regarded AA prospect to be?

 

Depends on the situation. What did you believe Corey Patterson's value was?

 

 

Extremely high when he was still a minor leaguer. I would've been pissed had we traded him for a GM.

 

And he was an every day player who turned out to be a pretty decent sized bust.

[C.C.]

No, I get that, but I see Hahn's name get mentioned and I don't get why? It's not like the farm system is bursting with talent (I'm sure he's part of the drafting). I just don't know why he's even in the discussion of our next GM.

 

someone has to take the credit for the 2005 WS win, and hell be damned if its Ozzie or Williams

 

LOL!

[MSG T]

No, I get that, but I see Hahn's name get mentioned and I don't get why? It's not like the farm system is bursting with talent (I'm sure he's part of the drafting). I just don't know why he's even in the discussion of our next GM.

 

Here's a older fangraphs article, posted when it first came out, that brings up some of the candidates (Hahn's listed first). As was discussed when this first came up, pretty much everyone listed, short of Colletti, would be acceptable.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/candidates-for-the-chicago-general-manager-job/

Edited October 17, 2011 by MSG T

[Hollandsworths mug]

And I agree with you 100% that the Red Sox are being douches here. And I did not say I wanted to give up on McNutt. Hwoever, we have proclaimed far too many Cubs prospects to be: "untouchable" only to see them flop.

 

The fact that you think Corey Patterson was ultimately a flop shows that you are fantastically misunderstanding baseball teams and player value.

 

Would it have been cool if Patterson hadn't hurt his knee or had developed some plate discipline or something? Sure.

 

But the Cubs got several starting-caliber seasons out of him for a fraction of the money it would have cost to go out and get a free agent.

 

Imagine the 2012 Cubs only had to pay Marlon Byrd and Ryan Dempster $500k each. That's what you get out of prospects who can step in to the big leagues and be adequate.

 

Corey Patterson was indeed a flop.

[Guest]

Honest question. What has McNutt done?

 

I know you're finding this extraordinarily difficult, but McNutt is not, nor has he ever been, the point. The point is that if Boston is demanding actual value like Garza/McNutt when they've already agreed to let him interview for a job where he gets more money and a promotion, and they'd have to pay huge money to keep a pissed off Theo for one year if it didn't go through, and they've already leaked that they've promoted a new GM, then they are out of their minds.

Ok, so Boston is out of their mind. Let's say you are correct. Is your contention that the Cubs should walk away b/c they should not be asking for anything worth anything?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

*tags out of this one*

 

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it not dumb.

[davearm2]

You mean if the Cubs put McNutt on eBay, what would other MLB teams bid?

 

Something on par with what gets spent on high draft picks and top international guys, I suppose.

 

$1M? $2M?

 

What's the correct answer?

 

A lot higher.

 

McNutt is older than your basic draft pick, has had more success closer to the big leagues, and the signing of draft picks is artificially lowered by their inability to negotiate with multiple teams.

Let's just assume you're right, and a well-regarded AA prospect is worth $10M.

 

In that case, what is the monetary value of a GM with a stellar record of drafting and developing many of those well-regarded AA prospects?

 

Less than the value of one such prospect? Really?

 

Do you think Theo would get 10M/Y if he were a free agent?

 

ETA: Hi Gooney

Every team in baseball would fall all over themselves to pay $10M to have Epstein under control for 6 years, like you get with the prospect.

 

So if we make your question apples-to-apples, the answer is absolutely yes.

[KingCubsFan]

And none of us know if McNutt is indeed the piece the Red Sox want. The story about them wanting Garza (a guy who has been a stud) is where you draw the line. But for McNutt, GMAB.

 

Okay, what do you believe the value of a well-regarded AA prospect to be?

 

Depends on the situation. What did you believe Corey Patterson's value was?

Corey Patterson was 10x the prospect McNutt is. A better comparison would have been someone like Ben Christensen.

[Guest]

Let's just assume you're right, and a well-regarded AA prospect is worth $10M.

 

In that case, what is the monetary value of a GM with a stellar record of drafting and developing many of those well-regarded AA prospects?

 

Less than the value of one such prospect? Really?

 

To the Red Sox? Absolutely. They've let him interview, they know he's not happy and won't be back after next year, they know they owe him a ton of money for that one year, and they know they've probably already promoted Cherington.

 

 

This situation is not happening in a vacuum. It's not a free agent negotiation, it's trading for a potential free agent the current team can't afford, or trading for Milton Bradley after an organization got sick of him.

[Vinestal]

I have a growing hate for the RedSox, this should have been over last week but they are trying really hard to rake us over the coals. I think they should just make Byrnes the GM and wait till Epstein's contract expires then rape Boston's front office.

[squally1313]

And none of us know if McNutt is indeed the piece the Red Sox want. The story about them wanting Garza (a guy who has been a stud) is where you draw the line. But for McNutt, GMAB.

 

Okay, what do you believe the value of a well-regarded AA prospect to be?

 

Depends on the situation. What did you believe Corey Patterson's value was?

 

 

Extremely high when he was still a minor leaguer. I would've been pissed had we traded him for a GM.

 

And he was an every day player who turned out to be a pretty decent sized bust.

 

Oh my god. Really? Since when does "every day player" who is COST CONTROLLED equal being a bust? Do you know valuable it is to get league average production for less than $500,000 a year?

[SouthSideRyan]

You mean if the Cubs put McNutt on eBay, what would other MLB teams bid?

 

Something on par with what gets spent on high draft picks and top international guys, I suppose.

 

$1M? $2M?

 

What's the correct answer?

 

A lot higher.

 

McNutt is older than your basic draft pick, has had more success closer to the big leagues, and the signing of draft picks is artificially lowered by their inability to negotiate with multiple teams.

Let's just assume you're right, and a well-regarded AA prospect is worth $10M.

 

In that case, what is the monetary value of a GM with a stellar record of drafting and developing many of those well-regarded AA prospects?

 

Less than the value of one such prospect? Really?

 

Do you think Theo would get 10M/Y if he were a free agent?

 

ETA: Hi Gooney

Every team in baseball would fall all over themselves to pay $10M to have Epstein under control for 6 years, like you get with the prospect.

 

So if we make your question apples-to-apples, the answer is absolutely yes.

 

WHAT?

[Guest]

Honest question. What has McNutt done?

 

I know you're finding this extraordinarily difficult, but McNutt is not, nor has he ever been, the point. The point is that if Boston is demanding actual value like Garza/McNutt when they've already agreed to let him interview for a job where he gets more money and a promotion, and they'd have to pay huge money to keep a pissed off Theo for one year if it didn't go through, and they've already leaked that they've promoted a new GM, then they are out of their minds.

Ok, so Boston is out of their mind. Let's say you are correct. Is your contention that the Cubs should walk away b/c they should not be asking for anything worth anything?

 

Eventually they should, if need be. If the Red Sox are so out there that they can only be talked down from super-crazy(Garza) to crazy(McNutt), then once that starts inhibiting Ricketts/the Cubs' ability to continue with the offseason, you move on. You go after one of those name candidates like Beane/Cashman/Friedman. Now that I've heard it, the idea of hiring Byrnes and then making Epstein the President next offseason is quite clever. I was more than fine with Hahn when Hendry was fired, and I still think he'd do a good job. It wouldn't come to that though, because as crazy as the Red Sox might be right now, they have millions of dollars to lose on top of goodwill, while the Cubs only have goodwill to lose. They'd cave.

[Hollandsworths mug]

Oh my god. Really? Since when does "every day player" who is COST CONTROLLED equal being a bust? Do you know valuable it is to get league average production for less than $500,000 a year?

 

Was Corey Patterson supposed to be a "league average player? Was that what he was touted to be or was the term: 5 tools/can't miss prospect the general norm?

 

The point is you do not walk away from Epstein if it costs you a minor league player. And yes, the Red Sox are being douches about it.

Edited October 17, 2011 by Hollandsworth's mug

[Hairyducked Idiot]

So now your argument is that Corey Patterson wasn't really that valuable because the expectations were higher.

 

So if we had all really hated him or something on the way up, that would have made him more valuable to the team.

 

Not all minor league players are created equal. A minor-league player who looks nearly ready to contribute to the MLB roster in any way is significantly more valuable than a low-A lottery ticket.

Edited October 17, 2011 by Hairyducked Idiot

[minnesotacubsfan]

So now your argument is that Corey Patterson wasn't really that valuable because the expectations were higher.

 

So if we had all really hated him or something on the way up, that would have made him more valuable to the team.

 

 

you said you were done in here. go hunt some ducks.

[SouthSideRyan]

Oh my god. Really? Since when does "every day player" who is COST CONTROLLED equal being a bust? Do you know valuable it is to get league average production for less than $500,000 a year?

 

Was Corey Patterson supposed to be a "league average player? Was that what he was touted to be or was the term: 5 tools/can't miss prospect the general norm?

 

 

WHO [expletive] CARES WHAT PATTERSON WAS TOUTED TO BE?? YOU DON'T LOSE VALUE BECAUSE YOU HOPED A GUY WOULD BECOME SOMETHING ELSE HE STILL HAS THAT VALUE HOLY [expletive]

[Hairyducked Idiot]

So now your argument is that Corey Patterson wasn't really that valuable because the expectations were higher.

 

So if we had all really hated him or something on the way up, that would have made him more valuable to the team.

 

 

you said you were done in here. go hunt some ducks.

 

This is the internet. No one who ever says they are done is actually done. Not once has a Declaration of Done ever been followed-up on.

 

 

If the Red Sox actually asked for Garza, then I'm finally beginning to think we'll have to walk away. And that's fine. What a batpoop insane organization.