Can the starting pitching be fixed for 2012?

[Tracer Bullet]

These reports are crazy. From a lot of what I've read, I think I'd like Hendry. But I'd still fire his ass in a heartbeat.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

I'd fire Hendry on the condition that the new guy is really good. I don't think the Cubs are far off from being competitive given than someone makes the very obvious right moves (sign Fielder/Pujols + add a pitcher or two + probably an OF bat + bring back Ramirez or figure out a 3B plan). You get 3/4 those things done and this team can compete in this crap division.

 

There's other ways to boost the talent in the FO without firing Hendry. One even seems to be in the talks with Pat Gillick maybe coming on as a big title consultant to act as a pillar of wisdom and experience in the FO. It's a good idea, I think.

 

And weirdly enough, I do feel there's something to Hendry giving us a leg up in bringing in one of the 1B. Why would they want to come to a franchise that has just fired it's longtime GM and plans to go in a completely new direction? That's a pretty dramatic change to be making while trying to pursue one of two of the ten best bats in baseball.

[Tarver]

I'd fire Hendry on the condition that the new guy is really good. I don't think the Cubs are far off from being competitive given than someone makes the very obvious right moves (sign Fielder/Pujols + add a pitcher or two + probably an OF bat + bring back Ramirez or figure out a 3B plan). You get 3/4 those things done and this team can compete in this crap division.

 

There's other ways to boost the talent in the FO without firing Hendry. One even seems to be in the talks with Pat Gillick maybe coming on as a big title consultant to act as a pillar of wisdom and experience in the FO. It's a good idea, I think.

 

And weirdly enough, I do feel there's something to Hendry giving us a leg up in bringing in one of the 1B. Why would they want to come to a franchise that has just fired it's longtime GM and plans to go in a completely new direction? That's a pretty dramatic change to be making while trying to pursue one of two of the ten best bats in baseball.

 

While it isn't fair and I don't necessarily agree with it all, every columnist/talking head (even the ones I think a lot of people around here respect) has bashed the Cubs since the deadline. This team is the laughing stock of the league right now. Someone has to be held accountable.

 

By your logic we should never make a move. Too much acceptance of loser culture in this fanbase.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

I'd fire Hendry on the condition that the new guy is really good. I don't think the Cubs are far off from being competitive given than someone makes the very obvious right moves (sign Fielder/Pujols + add a pitcher or two + probably an OF bat + bring back Ramirez or figure out a 3B plan). You get 3/4 those things done and this team can compete in this crap division.

 

There's other ways to boost the talent in the FO without firing Hendry. One even seems to be in the talks with Pat Gillick maybe coming on as a big title consultant to act as a pillar of wisdom and experience in the FO. It's a good idea, I think.

 

And weirdly enough, I do feel there's something to Hendry giving us a leg up in bringing in one of the 1B. Why would they want to come to a franchise that has just fired it's longtime GM and plans to go in a completely new direction? That's a pretty dramatic change to be making while trying to pursue one of two of the ten best bats in baseball.

 

While it isn't fair and I don't necessarily agree with it all, every columnist/talking head (even the ones I think a lot of people around here respect) has bashed the Cubs since the deadline. This team is the laughing stock of the league right now. Someone has to be held accountable.

 

By your logic we should never make a move. Too much acceptance of loser culture in this fanbase.

 

That's not my logic at all, and while this year sucks that doesn't mean they're bound to suck next year. All these little things...people laughing, calling for heads, and being a league wide joke (which I guess is new to the Cubs)...are a product of not winning.

[Soul]

I'd fire Hendry on the condition that the new guy is really good. I don't think the Cubs are far off from being competitive given than someone makes the very obvious right moves (sign Fielder/Pujols + add a pitcher or two + probably an OF bat + bring back Ramirez or figure out a 3B plan). You get 3/4 those things done and this team can compete in this crap division.

 

There's other ways to boost the talent in the FO without firing Hendry. One even seems to be in the talks with Pat Gillick maybe coming on as a big title consultant to act as a pillar of wisdom and experience in the FO. It's a good idea, I think.

 

And weirdly enough, I do feel there's something to Hendry giving us a leg up in bringing in one of the 1B. Why would they want to come to a franchise that has just fired it's longtime GM and plans to go in a completely new direction? That's a pretty dramatic change to be making while trying to pursue one of two of the ten best bats in baseball.

 

While it isn't fair and I don't necessarily agree with it all, every columnist/talking head (even the ones I think a lot of people around here respect) has bashed the Cubs since the deadline. This team is the laughing stock of the league right now. Someone has to be held accountable.

 

By your logic we should never make a move. Too much acceptance of loser culture in this fanbase.

 

That's not my logic at all, and while this year sucks that doesn't mean they're bound to suck next year. All these little things...people laughing, calling for heads, and being a league wide joke (which I guess is new to the Cubs)...are a product of not winning.

 

But any team can say that.

[Guest]

That's not my logic at all, and while this year sucks that doesn't mean they're bound to suck next year. All these little things...people laughing, calling for heads, and being a league wide joke (which I guess is new to the Cubs)...are a product of not winning.

 

But any team can say that.

 

No. The number of teams with less hope for next year than the Cubs is decidedly above zero.

[SouthSideRyan]

Why would they want to come to a franchise that has just fired it's longtime GM and plans to go in a completely new direction?

 

Because the longtime GM put them in a terrible hole, and a new direction would mean becoming good?

[Little Slide Rooter]

Why would they want to come to a franchise that has just fired it's longtime GM and plans to go in a completely new direction?

 

Because the longtime GM put them in a terrible hole, and a new direction would mean becoming good?

 

That and the fact that they'd offer them lots of money. Most players tend to like that type of compensation, no matter the team or its direction.

 

Additionally, maybe there's something to be said about coming to a team like the Cubs and being the cornerstone of a 2-3 year building process, and being able to compete all the while as opposed to joining the Yankees or Red Sox and simply being another piece. When the Cubs finally do win it all, every player, manager, and executive is going to wish they could have been a part of it.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I'd fire Hendry on the condition that the new guy is really good. I don't think the Cubs are far off from being competitive given than someone makes the very obvious right moves (sign Fielder/Pujols + add a pitcher or two + probably an OF bat + bring back Ramirez or figure out a 3B plan). You get 3/4 those things done and this team can compete in this crap division.

 

There's other ways to boost the talent in the FO without firing Hendry. One even seems to be in the talks with Pat Gillick maybe coming on as a big title consultant to act as a pillar of wisdom and experience in the FO. It's a good idea, I think.

 

And weirdly enough, I do feel there's something to Hendry giving us a leg up in bringing in one of the 1B. Why would they want to come to a franchise that has just fired it's longtime GM and plans to go in a completely new direction? That's a pretty dramatic change to be making while trying to pursue one of two of the ten best bats in baseball.

 

While it isn't fair and I don't necessarily agree with it all, every columnist/talking head (even the ones I think a lot of people around here respect) has bashed the Cubs since the deadline. This team is the laughing stock of the league right now. Someone has to be held accountable.

 

By your logic we should never make a move. Too much acceptance of loser culture in this fanbase.

 

That's not my logic at all, and while this year sucks that doesn't mean they're bound to suck next year. All these little things...people laughing, calling for heads, and being a league wide joke (which I guess is new to the Cubs)...are a product of not winning.

 

But any team can say that.

 

Can any team say they have a massive financial advantage over their crappy division which stands to get much worse this offseason due to free agent departures?

[Soul]

I'd fire Hendry on the condition that the new guy is really good. I don't think the Cubs are far off from being competitive given than someone makes the very obvious right moves (sign Fielder/Pujols + add a pitcher or two + probably an OF bat + bring back Ramirez or figure out a 3B plan). You get 3/4 those things done and this team can compete in this crap division.

 

There's other ways to boost the talent in the FO without firing Hendry. One even seems to be in the talks with Pat Gillick maybe coming on as a big title consultant to act as a pillar of wisdom and experience in the FO. It's a good idea, I think.

 

And weirdly enough, I do feel there's something to Hendry giving us a leg up in bringing in one of the 1B. Why would they want to come to a franchise that has just fired it's longtime GM and plans to go in a completely new direction? That's a pretty dramatic change to be making while trying to pursue one of two of the ten best bats in baseball.

 

While it isn't fair and I don't necessarily agree with it all, every columnist/talking head (even the ones I think a lot of people around here respect) has bashed the Cubs since the deadline. This team is the laughing stock of the league right now. Someone has to be held accountable.

 

By your logic we should never make a move. Too much acceptance of loser culture in this fanbase.

 

That's not my logic at all, and while this year sucks that doesn't mean they're bound to suck next year. All these little things...people laughing, calling for heads, and being a league wide joke (which I guess is new to the Cubs)...are a product of not winning.

 

But any team can say that.

 

Can any team say they have a massive financial advantage over their crappy division which stands to get much worse this offseason due to free agent departures?

 

No. But any team can say they might be better next year. I don't see how that means we should keep Hendry. We could do better with a better GM, too, so even if we agree the Cubs have a good chance of being better with Hendry, it *still* doesn't mean we should keep him.

[KingCubsFan]

I'd fire Hendry on the condition that the new guy is really good. I don't think the Cubs are far off from being competitive given than someone makes the very obvious right moves (sign Fielder/Pujols + add a pitcher or two + probably an OF bat + bring back Ramirez or figure out a 3B plan). You get 3/4 those things done and this team can compete in this crap division.

 

There's other ways to boost the talent in the FO without firing Hendry. One even seems to be in the talks with Pat Gillick maybe coming on as a big title consultant to act as a pillar of wisdom and experience in the FO. It's a good idea, I think.

 

And weirdly enough, I do feel there's something to Hendry giving us a leg up in bringing in one of the 1B. Why would they want to come to a franchise that has just fired it's longtime GM and plans to go in a completely new direction? That's a pretty dramatic change to be making while trying to pursue one of two of the ten best bats in baseball.

 

While it isn't fair and I don't necessarily agree with it all, every columnist/talking head (even the ones I think a lot of people around here respect) has bashed the Cubs since the deadline. This team is the laughing stock of the league right now. Someone has to be held accountable.

 

By your logic we should never make a move. Too much acceptance of loser culture in this fanbase.

 

That's not my logic at all, and while this year sucks that doesn't mean they're bound to suck next year. All these little things...people laughing, calling for heads, and being a league wide joke (which I guess is new to the Cubs)...are a product of not winning.

 

But any team can say that.

 

Can any team say they have a massive financial advantage over their crappy division which stands to get much worse this offseason due to free agent departures?

We have a massive financial advantage over our division every year. Look where it's gotten us. And if the Cardinals lose Pujols, they'll have more money to spend with a better core.

[SouthSideRyan]

We have a massive financial advantage over our division every year. Look where it's gotten us. And if the Cardinals lose Pujols, they'll have more money to spend with a better core.

 

They'll also have lost Pujols.

[KingCubsFan]

We have a massive financial advantage over our division every year. Look where it's gotten us. And if the Cardinals lose Pujols, they'll have more money to spend with a better core.

 

They'll also have lost Pujols.

Right, but they'll still have Holliday and Wainwright, along with productive cheap players like Jaime Garcia, Jay and Frese and elite prospects in Shelby Miller and that other guy whose name I can't remember offhand.

 

We have Starlin Castro and Brett Jackson. That's pretty much it.

[SouthSideRyan]

We have a massive financial advantage over our division every year. Look where it's gotten us. And if the Cardinals lose Pujols, they'll have more money to spend with a better core.

 

They'll also have lost Pujols.

Right, but they'll still have Holliday and Wainwright, along with productive cheap players like Jaime Garcia, Jay and Frese and elite prospects in Shelby Miller and that other guy whose name I can't remember offhand.

 

We have Starlin Castro and Brett Jackson. That's pretty much it.

 

Carlos Martinez? He's in high A ball and has 120 professional innings under his belt. Wainwright is coming back from TJS, and he's still not a guarantee to even come back.

[jersey cubs fan]

We have a massive financial advantage over our division every year. Look where it's gotten us. And if the Cardinals lose Pujols, they'll have more money to spend with a better core.

 

They'll also have lost Pujols.

Right, but they'll still have Holliday and Wainwright, along with productive cheap players like Jaime Garcia, Jay and Frese and elite prospects in Shelby Miller and that other guy whose name I can't remember offhand.

 

We have Starlin Castro and Brett Jackson. That's pretty much it.

 

And Garza, Dempster and Zambrano. Soto and Ramirez possibly.

[Little Slide Rooter]

We have a massive financial advantage over our division every year. Look where it's gotten us. And if the Cardinals lose Pujols, they'll have more money to spend with a better core.

 

They'll also have lost Pujols.

Right, but they'll still have Holliday and Wainwright, along with productive cheap players like Jaime Garcia, Jay and Frese and elite prospects in Shelby Miller and that other guy whose name I can't remember offhand.

 

We have Starlin Castro and Brett Jackson. That's pretty much it.

 

And Garza, Dempster and Zambrano. Soto and Ramirez possibly.

 

As well as Byrd, Marshall, Marmol, Cashner. Even Soriano can us 20 some home runs a year until he finally goes away. Its not like we dont have our share of good pieces.

[Guest]

We have a massive financial advantage over our division every year. Look where it's gotten us. And if the Cardinals lose Pujols, they'll have more money to spend with a better core.

 

They'll also have lost Pujols.

Right, but they'll still have Holliday and Wainwright, along with productive cheap players like Jaime Garcia, Jay and Frese and elite prospects in Shelby Miller and that other guy whose name I can't remember offhand.

 

We have Starlin Castro and Brett Jackson. That's pretty much it.

 

And Garza, Dempster and Zambrano. Soto and Ramirez possibly.

I'm going to go out on limb here and bet Zambrano is not with the Cubs next year. I think Big Z has done and said enough that they will cut ties with him and it will cost the Cubs a lot of dough to rid themselves of him. I think they'll get a couple of starters in FA and Hendry will put his usual, "hope we get lucky" strategy into play.

 

I would love to seem them go hard after Fielder first, but make a take it or leave it offer to Pujols for close to whatever they think he's going to get from LAA or St. Louis. In the end though, I don't think he leaves St. Louis.

[KingCubsFan]

We have a massive financial advantage over our division every year. Look where it's gotten us. And if the Cardinals lose Pujols, they'll have more money to spend with a better core.

 

They'll also have lost Pujols.

Right, but they'll still have Holliday and Wainwright, along with productive cheap players like Jaime Garcia, Jay and Frese and elite prospects in Shelby Miller and that other guy whose name I can't remember offhand.

 

We have Starlin Castro and Brett Jackson. That's pretty much it.

 

And Garza, Dempster and Zambrano. Soto and Ramirez possibly.

Forgot about Garza and Soto (although I also forgot Molina). Dempster, Zambrano and Ramirez aren't part of any core going forward, as they could all be gone this year or next year.

[jersey cubs fan]

Forgot about Garza and Soto (although I also forgot Molina). Dempster, Zambrano and Ramirez aren't part of any core going forward, as they could all be gone this year or next year.

 

If a 30 year old coming off TJS with expensive club options gets to be considered part of a team's core, then Dempster, Zambrano and Ramirez can as well.

[davearm2]

While it isn't fair and I don't necessarily agree with it all, every columnist/talking head (even the ones I think a lot of people around here respect) has bashed the Cubs since the deadline. This team is the laughing stock of the league right now. Someone has to be held accountable.

You want the Cubs to make major decisions about the direction of the franchise based upon media frenzy?

 

And you don't even agree with the frenzy, or think it's fair?

 

Surely I'm missing something here.

[CubColtPacer]

We have a massive financial advantage over our division every year. Look where it's gotten us. And if the Cardinals lose Pujols, they'll have more money to spend with a better core.

 

They'll also have lost Pujols.

Right, but they'll still have Holliday and Wainwright, along with productive cheap players like Jaime Garcia, Jay and Frese and elite prospects in Shelby Miller and that other guy whose name I can't remember offhand.

 

We have Starlin Castro and Brett Jackson. That's pretty much it.

 

And Garza, Dempster and Zambrano. Soto and Ramirez possibly.

Forgot about Garza and Soto (although I also forgot Molina). Dempster, Zambrano and Ramirez aren't part of any core going forward, as they could all be gone this year or next year.

 

Well if you count Dempster and Zambrano being gone then the Cubs would have much more money available than the Cardinals will. I'm not sure if the discussion is who can build a better team in 2012 or which team has the better situation for beyond that, but Dempster and Z have to be counted if we're just talking about 2012, and the Cubs have a bigger amount of money to spend if we're talking post 2012.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

We have a massive financial advantage over our division every year. Look where it's gotten us.

 

It's gotten us to division titles immediately after awful seasons twice in the last decade. No reason not to try for a third.

[KingCubsFan]

Well if you count Dempster and Zambrano being gone then the Cubs would have much more money available than the Cardinals will. I'm not sure if the discussion is who can build a better team in 2012 or which team has the better situation for beyond that, but Dempster and Z have to be counted if we're just talking about 2012, and the Cubs have a bigger amount of money to spend if we're talking post 2012.

My original comment was meant to address both this year and in the future, and was made in the context of keeping Hendry because we'll have a lot of money to spend this offseason and the rest of the division will get worse. As I originally stated, we always have a financial advantage. And all that's gotten us is one 90 win team and another fluke division title in the recent past. Hendry has shown time and time again that he can't effectively utilize our large financial advantage, so why are people potentially using that as a reason to keep him another year? The Cardinals could potentially have the same amount of money this offseason, and they have better pieces for the future (and the present). Sure we'll have more money in 2012 too, but that's because we'll have lost several pieces that we'll have to replace through free agency because we'll likely have no cheap young players to fill those roles. The Cardinals won't have to do that as much. Hendry's mismanagement has left this team in shambles, and the fact that he may be able to buy us an 85 win team (and I think the 2006 team was MUCH better equipped for a rebound than this team) because we have so much money coming off the books is not a good reason to keep him. In fact, there's no good reason to keep him. He should be gone.

[Soul]

We have a massive financial advantage over our division every year. Look where it's gotten us.

 

It's gotten us to division titles immediately after awful seasons twice in the last decade. No reason not to try for a third.

 

Of course. Let's try with someone better than Jim.

[SouthSideRyan]

Arguing that Hendry should stay vs. arguing that the Cardinals are set up better than us going forward are 2 different things.

 

I just noticed Cots has Wainwright's options as vested for his top 5 finish in CYA in 2010, so he is there for better or worse.

 

I don't get your argument that the Cubs are losing more valuable pieces that must be replaced via FA than the Cardinals. The Cardinals have Pujols, Berkman, and Carpenter as FAs. The Cubs have Carlos Pena, John Grabow, and Kerry Wood.