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Pat Gillick

davell

By davell,
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Elrhino

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I imagine his role would be similar to that of Bill Parcells when he was with the Dolphins. Basically he hires the next GM and helps remodel the infrastructure from his experience in an "executive consultant" role. He may not necessarily make all the decisions such as hiring the head coach or pulling the trigger on major trades, but he's definitely involved and eventually signs off on it.

 

Seems to be a popular gig among old guys who can't give up the sport, but don't have the stamina to put 70+ hour weeks into the job anymore.

 

White would be an intriguing possibility. You would have to think he would be a candidate given his ties with Gillick and that he interviewed with the Mets last year .

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MSG T

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Didn't he sign Howard to that horrific contract?

 

 

No. He "retired" after 2008. Rueben Amaro Jr signed Howard to his extension.

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Elrhino

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There was nothing wrong with the Howard contract they originally signed in 09, given his age and previous production at the time. It was the needless extension 1 year later with the outrageous payraise that made it bad.

 

Phillies seem to have survived, though.

 

FWIW, while Gillick was with the Phillies he was on a fairly tight leash from Philly ownership as far as spending money goes (to the point that he was nicknamed "Stand" Pat Gillick). Most of his moves were of the bargain basement variety (most notably signing Werth coming off of injury for $850k). It wasn't until they won the WS in 08 and started filling up the new stadium that they were allowed to spend money.

jersey cubs fan GOAT

jersey cubs fan

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Didn't he sign Howard to that horrific contract?

 

He retired a year and a half before that contract was signed.

 

It was his hand-chosen successor though.

 

And the team hasn't let their foot off the pedal in a decade of dominance.

idakepps College Ball

idakepps

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yeah, the "stand pat" nickname was definitely from toronto:

 

http://www.torontosun.com/sports/columnists/bob_elliott/2010/12/06/16450661.html

 

I think Wilken would stay in the Gillick scenario. If Rickets likes what he sees out of Wilken and wants to get rid of Hendry I could see this happening. It could even be set up so that Gillick sets it up so Wilken becomes the GM later.

 

That's not to say that's the case, but....

jersey cubs fan GOAT

jersey cubs fan

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They could win five more WS, and it'd still be an awful contract for an overrated player.

And it still wouldn't matter because it's dumb as he'll to judge a gm on an individual deal when the only thing that matters are the results.

Pushfrog98 ACL Cubs

Pushfrog98

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They could win five more WS, and it'd still be an awful contract for an overrated player.

Are you saying you'd rather have "reasonable" contracts no no WS wins?

Pushfrog98 ACL Cubs

Pushfrog98

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They could win five more WS, and it'd still be an awful contract for an overrated player.

Are you saying you'd rather have "reasonable" contracts no no WS wins?

 

Yes. That is exactly what I said.

Sorry, I phrased that incorrectly. You're saying that even if the Cubs won 5 world series' within a decade, you'd be still be bitching about 1 bad contract on the team.

SouthSideRyan MVP

SouthSideRyan

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They could win five more WS, and it'd still be an awful contract for an overrated player.

Are you saying you'd rather have "reasonable" contracts no no WS wins?

 

Yes. That is exactly what I said.

Sorry, I phrased that incorrectly. You're saying that even if the Cubs won 5 world series' within a decade, you'd be still be bitching about 1 bad contract on the team.

 

No. The point is obviously the end goal is to win the world series, but the same way a world series winning manager isn't automatically good, neither is a world series winning GM, and when you're looking to hire either you don't simply look at what their end results were. Kenny Williams trading Carlos Lee for Scott Podsednik doesn't automatically become a smart move because the White Sox won a world series. Garagiola Jr putting the D-Backs in severe debt doesn't become intelligent because Mariano Rivera blew a save in game 7.

 

The fact that Gillick's protege in Philly thought that contract for Howard was a good idea is something to be concerned about when talking about Gillick. Gooney makes a good point that it hasn't hamstrung them, but the fact that they have a payroll pushing 170M isn't hurting them either. It's a bit of chicken or egg: Did the success of the Phillies lead to the 170M payroll, or is their success a byproduct of said payroll.

 

I'm not trying to argue that Hendry is a better GM than Amaro, or that Gillick will be a failure, but that Howard contract is certainly an eyesore.

jersey cubs fan GOAT

jersey cubs fan

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Gooney makes a good point that it hasn't hamstrung them, but the fact that they have a payroll pushing 170M isn't hurting them either. It's a bit of chicken or egg: Did the success of the Phillies lead to the 170M payroll, or is their success a byproduct of said payroll.

 

I'm not trying to argue that Hendry is a better GM than Amaro, or that Gillick will be a failure, but that Howard contract is certainly an eyesore.

 

Philly's payroll was fairly flat through the era of Gillick's tenure when the team became a dominant force. It didn't skyrocket until after they won a world series when the higher ups chose capitalize on a resurgent fan base by telling them they weren't going to pull an Arizona and fall apart.

 

Winning a world series doesn't make you a great GM. Being well over .500 every year and winning 90+ with regularity sure does. Kenny Williams has barely outperformed Jim Hendry but he got lucky with one title to sooth the masses and his boss. Other guys were pump and dump GMs but that is an entirely different scenario.

Guest

Guest

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Howard's contract is only an eyesore if it hampers them in pursuing other players. It doesn't appear that is the case right now.

 

Everything is relative. Howard is probably overpaid relative to his production, but not relative to the team's ability to field a consistently winning team. If in the future it stops them from pursing talent, then it will be a problem.

SouthSideRyan MVP

SouthSideRyan

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Everything is relative. Howard is probably overpaid relative to his production, but not relative to the team's ability to field a consistently winning team. If in the future it stops them from pursing talent, then it will be a problem.

 

As I said earlier, you could say the same thing about Soriano in '07 and '08.

KingCubsFan ACL Cubs

KingCubsFan

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Gooney makes a good point that it hasn't hamstrung them, but the fact that they have a payroll pushing 170M isn't hurting them either. It's a bit of chicken or egg: Did the success of the Phillies lead to the 170M payroll, or is their success a byproduct of said payroll.

 

I'm not trying to argue that Hendry is a better GM than Amaro, or that Gillick will be a failure, but that Howard contract is certainly an eyesore.

 

Philly's payroll was fairly flat through the era of Gillick's tenure when the team became a dominant force. It didn't skyrocket until after they won a world series when the higher ups chose capitalize on a resurgent fan base by telling them they weren't going to pull an Arizona and fall apart.

 

Winning a world series doesn't make you a great GM. Being well over .500 every year and winning 90+ with regularity sure does. Kenny Williams has barely outperformed Jim Hendry but he got lucky with one title to sooth the masses and his boss. Other guys were pump and dump GMs but that is an entirely different scenario.

So Brian Cashman and Theo Epstein are the only "great" GM's in baseball?

Hairyducked Idiot All-Star

Hairyducked Idiot

Old-Timey Member
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Gooney makes a good point that it hasn't hamstrung them, but the fact that they have a payroll pushing 170M isn't hurting them either. It's a bit of chicken or egg: Did the success of the Phillies lead to the 170M payroll, or is their success a byproduct of said payroll.

 

I'm not trying to argue that Hendry is a better GM than Amaro, or that Gillick will be a failure, but that Howard contract is certainly an eyesore.

 

Philly's payroll was fairly flat through the era of Gillick's tenure when the team became a dominant force. It didn't skyrocket until after they won a world series when the higher ups chose capitalize on a resurgent fan base by telling them they weren't going to pull an Arizona and fall apart.

 

Winning a world series doesn't make you a great GM. Being well over .500 every year and winning 90+ with regularity sure does. Kenny Williams has barely outperformed Jim Hendry but he got lucky with one title to sooth the masses and his boss. Other guys were pump and dump GMs but that is an entirely different scenario.

So Brian Cashman and Theo Epstein are the only "great" GM's in baseball?

 

When you think about it, there's so much variance in how talent translates to wins. And there's so much variance in how talent develops. And it's nearly a perfect information system with the pervasiveness of stats and scouting. Maybe there's just not a lot a GM can do to break themselves from the pack these days?

treebird All-Star

treebird

Old-Timey Member
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Posted
Gooney makes a good point that it hasn't hamstrung them, but the fact that they have a payroll pushing 170M isn't hurting them either. It's a bit of chicken or egg: Did the success of the Phillies lead to the 170M payroll, or is their success a byproduct of said payroll.

 

I'm not trying to argue that Hendry is a better GM than Amaro, or that Gillick will be a failure, but that Howard contract is certainly an eyesore.

 

Philly's payroll was fairly flat through the era of Gillick's tenure when the team became a dominant force. It didn't skyrocket until after they won a world series when the higher ups chose capitalize on a resurgent fan base by telling them they weren't going to pull an Arizona and fall apart.

 

Winning a world series doesn't make you a great GM. Being well over .500 every year and winning 90+ with regularity sure does. Kenny Williams has barely outperformed Jim Hendry but he got lucky with one title to sooth the masses and his boss. Other guys were pump and dump GMs but that is an entirely different scenario.

So Brian Cashman and Theo Epstein are the only "great" GM's in baseball?

 

When you think about it, there's so much variance in how talent translates to wins. And there's so much variance in how talent develops. And it's nearly a perfect information system with the pervasiveness of stats and scouting. Maybe there's just not a lot a GM can do to break themselves from the pack these days?

 

?

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