ESPN doing a great job of piling on

[GlassCow]

The year isn't going horribly enough, so why not spend time reminding us how the Yankees have 27 championships and we haven't won one in more than a century? Also, let's get in the jabs about Bartman to promote their upcoming 30 for 30 special about a ridiculous topic that only Cub haters ever talk or think about. The east coast bias is in full effect this weekend. Then again, maybe I'm just bitter.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm really looking forward to the 30 for 30 documentary. It's by the same guy who made Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room and Taxi to the Dark Side.

[nick23]

Who cares?

[Sosa21MVP]

Hey did you know Babe Ruth called his own shot at Wrigley once? :hello:

[Sammy Sofa]

Well, for a team as old as the Cubs they really haven't given the casual fan a lot to talk about.

[SpongeWorthy]

Its really hilarious how Cubs fans cant fathom how Bartman is a viable topic for a documentary

[davearm2]

Its really hilarious how Cubs fans cant fathom how Bartman is a viable topic for a documentary

I think it's more hilarious how anyone still thinks Bartman is a significant part of the story.

[Sammy Sofa]

Its really hilarious how Cubs fans cant fathom how Bartman is a viable topic for a documentary

 

Yeah. The guy got a raw deal, but it's a pretty unique story in the way everything played out. About the only other thing I can think of in baseball that's similar is the kid who screwed over the Orioles with the home run catch.

[KingCubsFan]

Its really hilarious how Cubs fans cant fathom how Bartman is a viable topic for a documentary

 

Yeah. The guy got a raw deal, but it's a pretty unique story in the way everything played out. About the only other thing I can think of in baseball that's similar is the kid who screwed over the Orioles with the home run catch.

That kid was responsible for a key homerun in a playoff game. Bartman interfered with a ball in foul play that Moises Alou, despite his temper tantrum, probably wasn't going to catch. If Alex Gonzalez doesn't choke, Bartman is a non story. Yet somehow nobody remembers Gonzalez.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Its really hilarious how Cubs fans cant fathom how Bartman is a viable topic for a documentary

 

Yeah. The guy got a raw deal, but it's a pretty unique story in the way everything played out. About the only other thing I can think of in baseball that's similar is the kid who screwed over the Orioles with the home run catch.

That kid was responsible for a key homerun in a playoff game. Bartman interfered with a ball in foul play that Moises Alou, despite his temper tantrum, probably wasn't going to catch. If Alex Gonzalez doesn't choke, Bartman is a non story. Yet somehow nobody remembers Gonzalez.

 

Plus, if you look at the famous picture, there are at leaast 2 other sets of hands reaching for the ball. Bartman was just the closest, and the fact that he looked like a goof with his headphones and turtleneck made him an easy scapegoat for the average meathead.

[Hawk4Hall]

A Gon had more to do with it that Bartman ever did.

[Guest]

Bartman is an afterthought in why the Cubs lost, but Alou was absolutely going to catch that ball and it should have been called interference.

[Sammy Sofa]

Its really hilarious how Cubs fans cant fathom how Bartman is a viable topic for a documentary

 

Yeah. The guy got a raw deal, but it's a pretty unique story in the way everything played out. About the only other thing I can think of in baseball that's similar is the kid who screwed over the Orioles with the home run catch.

That kid was responsible for a key homerun in a playoff game. Bartman interfered with a ball in foul play that Moises Alou, despite his temper tantrum, probably wasn't going to catch. If Alex Gonzalez doesn't choke, Bartman is a non story. Yet somehow nobody remembers Gonzalez.

 

Actually, the reviews of this doc make it sounds like it goes into everything that happened. That said, Bartman is clearly the heart of the story. Cubs fans can spin it all they want, but it was the start of a very dramatic series of events (and non-events in Dusty's inaction) wrapped in the larger context of where it was and what was at stake. Yes, Bartman was unfairly demonized and he didn't do anything wrong and he's not the reason the Cubs didn't go to the WS, but the repeated insistence of many Cubs fans like it's essentially a non-story and that the REAL story is Gonzalez booting the ball. It's not. A player screwing up a key play in a high pressure situation isn't unique. The Bartman situation and how people reacted to it is. That's why it's a story. Yes, most of the time people take a hack approach to remembering it or describing it, but it did inspire a very interesting reaction and series of events and a good documentary could do a lot with it. Hopefully this one will based on the skill of the guy behind it.

[davearm2]

Bartman is an afterthought in why the Cubs lost, but Alou was absolutely going to catch that ball and it should have been called interference.

Alou was clearly reaching over the railing to attempt to catch the ball. Bartman is reaching pretty much straight over his head. Any reasonable conclusion is that the ball would not have landed in the field of play. Thus interference should not have been called.

[Sammy Sofa]

Bartman is an afterthought in why the Cubs lost, but Alou was absolutely going to catch that ball and it should have been called interference.

Alou was clearly reaching over the railing to attempt to catch the ball. Bartman is reaching pretty much straight over his head. Any reasonable conclusion is that the ball would not have landed in the field of play. Thus interference should not have been called.

 

Yeah, I really don't understand how anyone could still think interference should have been called. I agree that Alou would have almost certainly caught the ball if nobody had gotten a finger on it, but (correct me if I'm wrong) since he's over the railing that means interference can't be called, right?

[Guest]

http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/vulture/2011/04/25/25_cubs.o.jpg/a_560x375.jpg

[TruffleShuffle]

http://www.nndb.com/people/979/000026901/steve-bartman.jpg

 

sure looks to me like the ball/alou's glove are over the railing, which is not part of the field.

[Sammy Sofa]

http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/vulture/2011/04/25/25_cubs.o.jpg/a_560x375.jpg

 

That's Alou already coming back down and pulling his arm back (note the closed glove). Here's Alou actually attempting to catch the ball (your pic would come in between these):

 

http://danthemantrivia.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/steve-bartman.jpg

 

He's going over the railing trying to catch it.

[Guest]

I still don't see how that's not in play. Bartman's fully extended, and Alou is barely reaching across his body with both of them next to the rail. But whatever, the same photos aren't going to convince either of us the other way.

[Sammy Sofa]

Well, I can't find bigger versions, but the images just before that basically show Bartman as part of a row of front seaters reaching up for the ball but not reaching over into the field of play (unless you're arguing that their hands several feet above the railing and technically a few inches over is interference). Everyone is reaching for it. Here's the biggest ones I can find:

 

http://cubbiescrib.com/files/2011/01/cubs.jpg

 

http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/image_pictures/0015/6299/steve_bartman_crop_340x234.jpg

 

The pics we posted before are after the ball has come down. Anything that could have conceivably called as interference on Bartman occurred after the ball was already uncatchable. Everything before that Alou is clearly reaching into the the stands far more than any of the fans are arguable reaching over the railing. His entire glove and part of his arm are past the railing.

Edited June 20, 2011 by Sammy Sofa

[erik316wttn]

Its really hilarious how Cubs fans cant fathom how Bartman is a viable topic for a documentary

 

Yeah. The guy got a raw deal, but it's a pretty unique story in the way everything played out. About the only other thing I can think of in baseball that's similar is the kid who screwed over the Orioles with the home run catch.

That kid was responsible for a key homerun in a playoff game. Bartman interfered with a ball in foul play that Moises Alou, despite his temper tantrum, probably wasn't going to catch. If Alex Gonzalez doesn't choke, Bartman is a non story. Yet somehow nobody remembers Gonzalez.

 

I do. If I ever see Alex Gonzalez cross the street in front of my car, I'll probably brake, but only before giving serious consideration to flooring the gas.

[bcl412]

Its really hilarious how Cubs fans cant fathom how Bartman is a viable topic for a documentary

 

Yeah. The guy got a raw deal, but it's a pretty unique story in the way everything played out. About the only other thing I can think of in baseball that's similar is the kid who screwed over the Orioles with the home run catch.

That kid was responsible for a key homerun in a playoff game. Bartman interfered with a ball in foul play that Moises Alou, despite his temper tantrum, probably wasn't going to catch. If Alex Gonzalez doesn't choke, Bartman is a non story. Yet somehow nobody remembers Gonzalez.

 

I do. If I ever see Alex Gonzalez cross the street in front of my car, I'll probably brake, but only before giving serious consideration to flooring the gas.

 

I'm pretty sure I'd have no idea what Alex Gonzalez looks like.

[erik316wttn]

Bartman is an afterthought in why the Cubs lost, but Alou was absolutely going to catch that ball and it should have been called interference.

 

Honestly I don't think he catches it. Even if he puts it in his glove, it would have been a snow-cone catch and I think the ball pops loose after his glove hits the railing on the way back down.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I found out today a fairly close family member is cheating on their spouse, and you guys making me think about Bartman is still the most depressing thought I've had.

[UMFan83]

Actually, the reviews of this doc make it sounds like it goes into everything that happened. That said, Bartman is clearly the heart of the story. Cubs fans can spin it all they want, but it was the start of a very dramatic series of events (and non-events in Dusty's inaction) wrapped in the larger context of where it was and what was at stake. Yes, Bartman was unfairly demonized and he didn't do anything wrong and he's not the reason the Cubs didn't go to the WS, but the repeated insistence of many Cubs fans like it's essentially a non-story and that the REAL story is Gonzalez booting the ball. It's not. A player screwing up a key play in a high pressure situation isn't unique. The Bartman situation and how people reacted to it is. That's why it's a story. Yes, most of the time people take a hack approach to remembering it or describing it, but it did inspire a very interesting reaction and series of events and a good documentary could do a lot with it. Hopefully this one will based on the skill of the guy behind it.

 

I buy the "series of events" thing. The Bartman play happened, causing Prior to point and scream at the guy from the mound. Maybe he was finished (although he went 1-2-3 in the 7th, I believe 2 of the 3 outs were to the warning track or thereabouts), maybe that caused him to lose his composure or maybe both, but immediately after that you get the walk, the run scoring hit, the Gonzalez play, the double to tie the game and in the blink of an eye the game is tied, and Dusty finally decides Prior has had enough.