2011 Cubs picks and signings thread

[Illini Iceman]

How can there not be something fundamentally wrong with a system that allows the commissioner to suppress valid signings at his own whim, therefore delaying the player receiving the money and the team from starting to develop the player by sending him to a minor league team? Going overslot is either allowed by the rules or not, and if it is allowed I don't understand how no one challenges the fact that MLB doesn't allow two willing parties to announce an agreement to terms.

[CubsWin]

How can there not be something fundamentally wrong with a system that allows the commissioner to suppress valid signings at his own whim, therefore delaying the player receiving the money and the team from starting to develop the player by sending him to a minor league team? Going overslot is either allowed by the rules or not, and if it is allowed I don't understand how no one challenges the fact that MLB doesn't allow two willing parties to announce an agreement to terms.

I understand your frustration, but the commissioner has always had a lot of latitude to butt in whenever he wants due to the "best interest of baseball" part of his job description. He's allowed to do anything he wants, so long as he can show that it is in the best interest of the sport. Not letting the teams with superior financial resources drive the bidding up for draftees is clearly in the best interests of baseball. The MLB CBA is up after this season. I expect to see this issue addressed in a more uniform way during the negotiation process for the new CBA.

[TruffleShuffle]

He's allowed to do anything he wants, so long as he can show that it is in the best interest of the sport. Not letting the teams with superior financial resources drive the bidding up for draftees is clearly in the best interests of baseball. The MLB CBA is up after this season. I expect to see this issue addressed in a more uniform way during the negotiation process for the new CBA.

 

except that hasn't been happening. at all. like not even close.

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/draft/2010/08/bonus-expenditures-2008-10/

 

biggest spenders in the draft from 2008-10 - the pirates. followed by a big market team (red sox), then the next seven teams on the list are nationals, orioles, royals, indians, rays, blue jays and rangers. meanwhile here are the bottom six teams: cubs, mets, marlins, phillies, braves, white sox. now i get that the teams toward the bottom tend to be drafting later, but still, the pirates, royals and rays are three notable small market teams that have been consistently going above slot money to draft hard-to-sign players. the mets, phillies, braves and white sox are kind of noted for rarely going above slot.

 

same with international free agency - the a's outbid everyone for ynoa, the pirates outbid everyone for luis heredia, the twins bought miguel sano, the rangers have been spending gobs of money in latin america, etc. smart small to mid-market teams have seen what the rays did and are copying their blueprint.

 

so really, the "best interests of baseball" argument would be a complete joke if selig ever tried to use it with respect to draft spending or international free agency. the system, as it is right now, works. teams that don't value amateur talent don't spend big bucks. teams that do value it do. and besides, it's not like selig is overturning these above-slot deals, he just lets the paperwork stew for a while, sends a nasty letter or e-mail to the offending team, then approves the signing. if he tried to overturn a deal like the one that samardzija got, MLB would be sued immediately. how exactly are his actions, as you put it, "not letting the teams with superior financial resources drive the bidding up for draftees"???

[SouthSideRyan]

"best interests of baseball" = "best interest of owners" Selig is an employee of the owners, and the owners want salaries artificially kept down. The MLBPA isn't in the business of protecting its future members, only its current members, so worrying about draftees being delayed in signing is way down their list of items for negotiation.

[CubsWin]

He's allowed to do anything he wants, so long as he can show that it is in the best interest of the sport. Not letting the teams with superior financial resources drive the bidding up for draftees is clearly in the best interests of baseball. The MLB CBA is up after this season. I expect to see this issue addressed in a more uniform way during the negotiation process for the new CBA.

 

except that hasn't been happening. at all. like not even close.

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/draft/2010/08/bonus-expenditures-2008-10/

 

biggest spenders in the draft from 2008-10 - the pirates. followed by a big market team (red sox), then the next seven teams on the list are nationals, orioles, royals, indians, rays, blue jays and rangers. meanwhile here are the bottom six teams: cubs, mets, marlins, phillies, braves, white sox. now i get that the teams toward the bottom tend to be drafting later, but still, the pirates, royals and rays are three notable small market teams that have been consistently going above slot money to draft hard-to-sign players. the mets, phillies, braves and white sox are kind of noted for rarely going above slot.

 

same with international free agency - the a's outbid everyone for ynoa, the pirates outbid everyone for luis heredia, the twins bought miguel sano, the rangers have been spending gobs of money in latin america, etc. smart small to mid-market teams have seen what the rays did and are copying their blueprint.

 

so really, the "best interests of baseball" argument would be a complete joke if selig ever tried to use it with respect to draft spending or international free agency. the system, as it is right now, works. teams that don't value amateur talent don't spend big bucks. teams that do value it do. and besides, it's not like selig is overturning these above-slot deals, he just lets the paperwork stew for a while, sends a nasty letter or e-mail to the offending team, then approves the signing. if he tried to overturn a deal like the one that samardzija got, MLB would be sued immediately. how exactly are his actions, as you put it, "not letting the teams with superior financial resources drive the bidding up for draftees"???

 

Thanks, good to know, but I guess I misspoke. By "superior financial resources" what I should have said was "teams that spend a lot on their draftees". I think Selig's reason for interfering here is to keep bonus sizes down. The NFL and NBA are both expected to pull back on the amount of money rookies are guaranteed in their initial contracts in their upcoming CBAs. This is Selig's way of doing that for the MLB.

 

And yes, SSR, I agree completely. Selig is doing this strictly for the owners. For this and most other league commissioners, the interests of baseball and the interests of the owners are almost always synonymous.

[davearm2]

How can there not be something fundamentally wrong with a system that allows the commissioner to suppress valid signings at his own whim, therefore delaying the player receiving the money and the team from starting to develop the player by sending him to a minor league team? Going overslot is either allowed by the rules or not, and if it is allowed I don't understand how no one challenges the fact that MLB doesn't allow two willing parties to announce an agreement to terms.

I've been wondering this very thing for some time.

 

You've got a whole bunch of elite players anxious to get their professional careers started off on the right foot (not to mention paid their bonus $$$), and yet they're being held off the field by the commissioner. It's not unrealistic that missing these 100 or so ABs could delay a guy's ETA in the bigleagues by a year.

 

Seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen. And given that many agents are attorneys, I'm surprised it hasn't happened already.

[jersey cubs fan]

How can there not be something fundamentally wrong with a system that allows the commissioner to suppress valid signings at his own whim, therefore delaying the player receiving the money and the team from starting to develop the player by sending him to a minor league team? Going overslot is either allowed by the rules or not, and if it is allowed I don't understand how no one challenges the fact that MLB doesn't allow two willing parties to announce an agreement to terms.

I've been wondering this very thing for some time.

 

You've got a whole bunch of elite players anxious to get their professional careers started off on the right foot (not to mention paid their bonus $$$), and yet they're being held off the field by the commissioner. It's not unrealistic that missing these 100 or so ABs could delay a guy's ETA in the bigleagues by a year.

 

Seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen. And given that many agents are attorneys, I'm surprised it hasn't happened already.

 

It's probably a case of letting sleeping dogs lie. Teams that are willing to pay overslot don't want to make a stink because they just want the player in the end. Players/agents don't make a stink because they don't want to force MLB's hand to make more of an effort to suppress bonuses. It would have to be hard to prove in a court of law that a delay of a few weeks or even months negatively affected their future earnings in a significant manner.

[Guest]

Selig apparently wants to push for hard slotting in the next CBA.

[javy knows my name]

Selig apparently wants to push for hard slotting in the next CBA.

 

Would anyone still watch after the fifth round or so?

[jersey cubs fan]

Selig apparently wants to push for hard slotting in the next CBA.

 

Would anyone still watch after the fifth round or so?

 

Does anyone still watch now?

[javy knows my name]

Selig apparently wants to push for hard slotting in the next CBA.

 

Would anyone still watch after the fifth round or so?

 

Does anyone still watch now?

 

Yes. Overslot pics are awesome.

[davell]

Sorry for no link, computer is running slow as hell.......But Tony Gwynn said Gretzky signed on Monday evidently.......

[tfarks]

Sorry for no link, computer is running slow as hell.......But Tony Gwynn said Gretzky signed on Monday evidently.......

 

So the Cubs are just stealth signing everybody and when Selig stops being a bitch we can all celebrate? Cool.

[MWV]

Sorry for no link, computer is running slow as hell.......But Tony Gwynn said Gretzky signed on Monday evidently.......

Signed with the Cubs or signed a letter of intent to commit to the Aztecs?

[Guest]

Sorry for no link, computer is running slow as hell.......But Tony Gwynn said Gretzky signed on Monday evidently.......

Signed with the Cubs or signed a letter of intent to commit to the Aztecs?

 

He would've signed his LOI a long time ago.

 

http://twitter.com/#!/elliottbaseball/status/94050206831747072

 

San Diego State coach/HOF Tony Gwynn on 1B Trevor Gretzky, 7th rounder, Cubs "We heard that he signed on Monday."

 

Bob Elliott is the baseball columnist for the Toronto Sun.

[Guest]

13th rounder Darien ("Trey") Martin has signed per BA.

[MWV]

Sorry for no link, computer is running slow as hell.......But Tony Gwynn said Gretzky signed on Monday evidently.......

Signed with the Cubs or signed a letter of intent to commit to the Aztecs?

 

He would've signed his LOI a long time ago.

 

http://twitter.com/#!/elliottbaseball/status/94050206831747072

 

San Diego State coach/HOF Tony Gwynn on 1B Trevor Gretzky, 7th rounder, Cubs "We heard that he signed on Monday."

 

Bob Elliott is the baseball columnist for the Toronto Sun.

I thought so. Thanks for the clarification.

[Guest]

I've heard the commissioner is sitting on 3 top-10 round signees and one of them is Vogelbach. It's possible Gretzky is another.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I've heard the commissioner is sitting on 3 top-10 round signees and one of them is Vogelbach. It's possible Gretzky is another.

 

Any chance hes also sitting on some early/mid rounders, say 11th and 14th round ? :)

[MSG T]

I've heard the commissioner is sitting on 3 top-10 round signees and one of them is Vogelbach. It's possible Gretzky is another.

 

Any chance hes also sitting on some early/mid rounders, say 11th and 14th round ? :)

 

 

I was just thinking, if he's sitting on those two, what will he do when Maples and Dunston sign?

[Wrigley Rat]

Gretzky signed.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-report-cubs-sign-draft-pick-gretzky-20110721,0,837919.story

[craig]

If Gretzky signed on Monday and it's Thursday today, I don't think the commish is sitting on that. But if Vogel is a million over, it's easy to imagine him holding that up.

 

I can easily imagine Gretzky getting overslot, but I don't think he's going to exactly be a big-ticket Selig-stopper deal. Devoss was $500 for a $350 slot and he got through. I doubt Gretzky is more than $150 over his slot, if that.

 

I'm not a huge Dunston fan, he's got some good peripheral tools if he can hit, but if he's not a really good hitter I don't think he'll be good for much. But I don't envision him being a super-duper superslot. Overslot to $500K, maybe. $700K, possible. But I don't think he's a 7-figures type prospect or anything like. Vogelbach might be a million over, but I don't think Dunston is going to be in that ballpark.

 

I also wonder if some of the Vogelbach stuff is a little speculative. That the Cubs have reached an agreement, I can totally believe that might be true. But I think that rumor is quite different from the rumors as to precisely how much the agreement is for. For example, the rumor that the agreement is done might be true, but it would surprise me if it ended up $1.2 instead of $1.65.

[Tryptamine]

Anyone find it strange that we've heard rumors and seen write ups involving the Cubs and just about every single super slot player, but there hasn't been a single thing about Baez? I thought he'd sign pretty quickly since he didn't seem like he would get much if any over slot. I thought Maples, Dunston, Vogelbach etc would be last minute types of deals and it seems to be the opposite.

[davell]

Anyone find it strange that we've heard rumors and seen write ups involving the Cubs and just about every single super slot player, but there hasn't been a single thing about Baez? I thought he'd sign pretty quickly since he didn't seem like he would get much if any over slot. I thought Maples, Dunston, Vogelbach etc would be last minute types of deals and it seems to be the opposite.

 

Right around the time we heard DeVoss was signing or had signed and it hadn't been reported yet, there was a blurb(can't remember from who) that said Baez was expected in shortly or something to that affect.

 

It's pretty easy to get excited with all this stuff going on right now. I just want to see Maples here. Getting him AND Dunston would be phenomenal. Craig, I think I'm going to disagree with you on how much of an overslot I expect Dunston to be. I think he'll get a mill personally. (not saying I see him being worth THAT much either) But, he does have some very nice upside and whatever amount we can get him to agree to, I'm going to be happy about it, since it's a change of philosophy, at the very least.

[Tryptamine]

Anyone find it strange that we've heard rumors and seen write ups involving the Cubs and just about every single super slot player, but there hasn't been a single thing about Baez? I thought he'd sign pretty quickly since he didn't seem like he would get much if any over slot. I thought Maples, Dunston, Vogelbach etc would be last minute types of deals and it seems to be the opposite.

 

Right around the time we heard DeVoss was signing or had signed and it hadn't been reported yet, there was a blurb(can't remember from who) that said Baez was expected in shortly or something to that affect.

 

It's pretty easy to get excited with all this stuff going on right now. I just want to see Maples here. Getting him AND Dunston would be phenomenal. Craig, I think I'm going to disagree with you on how much of an overslot I expect Dunston to be. I think he'll get a mill personally. (not saying I see him being worth THAT much either) But, he does have some very nice upside and whatever amount we can get him to agree to, I'm going to be happy about it, since it's a change of philosophy, at the very least.

 

Landing Vogelbach, Maples and Dunston was the dream from the get go. Now that we know Gretzky has signed as well, this has a chance to be a great draft. I would like to hear some news on Zych and Scott relatively soon too.