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2011 Chicago Bulls Playoff Thread (5/26 7:30pm CST - TNT)

chuckywang

By chuckywang,
in Other Sports

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Andy GOAT

Andy

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I know I have a great hatred for Haslem from the '06 and '07 playoffs, I want to say he clothes-lined Kirk, was there something else or just general thugery?

 

James Posey was the Heat who clotheslined Kirk.

Wasn't a clothesline, it was a premeditated free-safety hit in the open floor. It was the dirtiest play I've ever witnessed live in the NBA, and considering I watched Rajon Rondo a few years later that is saying something.

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bukie All-Star

bukie

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I know I have a great hatred for Haslem from the '06 and '07 playoffs, I want to say he clothes-lined Kirk, was there something else or just general thugery?

 

James Posey was the Heat who clotheslined Kirk.

Wasn't a clothesline, it was a premeditated free-safety hit in the open floor. It was the dirtiest play I've ever witnessed live in the NBA, and considering I watched Rajon Rondo a few years later that is saying something.

Yeah, it was Deng he clotheslined.

SouthSideRyan MVP

SouthSideRyan

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I know I have a great hatred for Haslem from the '06 and '07 playoffs, I want to say he clothes-lined Kirk, was there something else or just general thugery?

 

James Posey was the Heat who clotheslined Kirk.

Wasn't a clothesline, it was a premeditated free-safety hit in the open floor. It was the dirtiest play I've ever witnessed live in the NBA, and considering I watched Rajon Rondo a few years later that is saying something.

 

Haha, ok.

Sammy Sofa GOAT

Sammy Sofa

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I know I have a great hatred for Haslem from the '06 and '07 playoffs, I want to say he clothes-lined Kirk, was there something else or just general thugery?

 

James Posey was the Heat who clotheslined Kirk.

Wasn't a clothesline, it was a premeditated free-safety hit in the open floor. It was the dirtiest play I've ever witnessed live in the NBA, and considering I watched Rajon Rondo a few years later that is saying something.

 

Haha, ok.

 

Hey man, you're talking about a span of NBA basketball from Posey to Rondo. That IS saying something. And what a coincidence that both plays happened against the Bulls.

Derwood GOAT

Derwood

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I know I have a great hatred for Haslem from the '06 and '07 playoffs, I want to say he clothes-lined Kirk, was there something else or just general thugery?

 

James Posey was the Heat who clotheslined Kirk.

Wasn't a clothesline, it was a premeditated free-safety hit in the open floor. It was the dirtiest play I've ever witnessed live in the NBA, and considering I watched Rajon Rondo a few years later that is saying something.

 

Haha, ok.

 

rawaction Chicago Cubs

rawaction

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
raw, you're just saying some silly things in this thread.

 

Kobe did not approach Jordan as a pure athlete at any point in his career.

 

Maybe not. But the Lebron thing stands.

Andy GOAT

Andy

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I know I have a great hatred for Haslem from the '06 and '07 playoffs, I want to say he clothes-lined Kirk, was there something else or just general thugery?

 

James Posey was the Heat who clotheslined Kirk.

Wasn't a clothesline, it was a premeditated free-safety hit in the open floor. It was the dirtiest play I've ever witnessed live in the NBA, and considering I watched Rajon Rondo a few years later that is saying something.

 

Haha, ok.

 

Hey man, you're talking about a span of NBA basketball from Posey to Rondo. That IS saying something. And what a coincidence that both plays happened against the Bulls.

The remark was clearly qualified with 'witnessed live', so it should be pretty obvious that the chances of it being a Bulls game are exponentially better because of that.

Andy GOAT

Andy

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
You were there for both? OK, now I'm jealous.

I was not there. I guess I should have said 'as they happened'. My bad.

SpongeWorthy Iowa Cubs

SpongeWorthy

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I hate old timey fetishists but it really is pretty hilarious some of the physical plays from the 80s and early 90s that only drew run of the mill personal fouls.
DivineBovine Myrtle Beach Pelicans

DivineBovine

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

 

I'd agree that LeBron is more physically gifted than MJ. It's not a landslide, but I'd say so.

 

LeBron has a lot of skills- namely his ballhandling and passing- but so much of his play is based on being bigger, stronger and faster than everyone else. He gets a lot of his rebounds, steals, blocks, and easy fast break baskets just because of his physical ability.

 

But in terms of comparing the players, there's no comparison. Jordan was a far more skilled player. And a lot has to do with killer instinct. And by killer instinct, I don't mean crying if you lose or beating your chest when you win. I mean the willingness to work harder than everyone else and not accept losing. Think about how MJ developed the unguardable turnaround fadaway in the post as his career went on. Or developing a 3 point shot. That's killer instinct. Not joining 2 other all-stars and throwing a championship party in the summer.

 

LeBron hasn't really improved his game in the past 3 years. That's what happens when you rely on overwhelming talent all your life.

 

The fact that he says 2 inches taller and 20 lbs heavier and they are similar gives the edge to LeBron. Runs circles around was probably a bit much, but LeBron is better athletically than Jordan was. Kobe is too.

 

As for LeBron not improving his game, I think he's a better defender and shooter than he was 2 years ago. And when you're the best player in the league, any improvement is going to be looked at as marginal anyway.

 

 

I disagree. LeBron can improve a lot of ways. And I'd argue that he's not the best player in the league. In terms of raw stats, maybe. I'm going to bring up the championship and wins argument like anyone else. It might be unfair, but I'll judge a player based on how well his team does. Because I don't think stats always tell the whole story in basketball. It was one thing when he was playing with Cleveland, which was actually a decent supporting cast. But now he's playing with 2 other all-stars. If he's so damn good, then the Heat should easily win the championship this year. But what if he doesn't? The LeBron apologists will point out the Heat have no bench, a crap coach. But LeBron apologists will make the assumption that he's the best player because of his stats, and assume that if he doesn't win it's not his fault. I'm the opposite. I'll judge him based on his team's performance, and conclude the stats are misleading if he doesn't win.

 

To me, carrying the entire scoring load for your team in crunchtime when everyone knows you're shooting and nobody else is hitting shots is more important than a few fast break dunks, getting a few assists hitting an open shooter, or getting a rebound with nobody around you. No doubt about it, LeBron is one of the best rotisserie players in the history of basketball. No wonder Hollinger loves him so much. But is he necessarily the best?

 

As for his improvement, LeBron can be a much better offensive player than he is. Jordan and Kobe were better players, IMO, because they could carry a team offensively. LeBron has no go to moves. A huge percentage of his offense is fast breaks and dunks. Michael and Kobe both developed a fadeaway jumper in the post. If LeBron could ever do that, he'd be unguardable. And why isn't his shot better? He can jump and shoot over anyone. But too bad he doesn't have killer instinct. I wouldn't really expect that from a guy who has been the most talented and most hyped guy at any level he played since he was 14.

SouthSideRyan MVP

SouthSideRyan

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
A huge percentage of his offense is fast breaks and dunks

 

Lebron takes less shots at the rim (Why are we looking down on this again?) than Derrick Rose. To go along with this he shoots at a better rate from every distance except 3 (0.2% advantage to Rose in eFG%)

 

And why isn't his shot better?

 

Was that a serious question?

Careless Knoxville Smokies

Careless

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
That Gibson dunk was so sudden, so unexpected, that I flipped my [expletive].

I woke my daughter up yelling at that.

 

My whole family was asleep upstairs during the 2nd Gibson dunk and I just dropped on the floor and screamed into the carpet. My son had just gone to sleep around the 1st dunk so I just pumped my fist and did some crazy kicking motion that my wife thought was interesting.

 

Anytime, I yell and cheer at the Bulls when my 4yo son is awake, even if he's in the other room, he'll yell "Gimme the hot sauce!"

lol I've taught my daughter to root for the Bulls, but she makes it sound like a race war. "The white ones are good and the red ones are bad!"

Banedon GOAT

Banedon

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted
That Gibson dunk was so sudden, so unexpected, that I flipped my [expletive].

I woke my daughter up yelling at that.

 

My whole family was asleep upstairs during the 2nd Gibson dunk and I just dropped on the floor and screamed into the carpet. My son had just gone to sleep around the 1st dunk so I just pumped my fist and did some crazy kicking motion that my wife thought was interesting.

 

Anytime, I yell and cheer at the Bulls when my 4yo son is awake, even if he's in the other room, he'll yell "Gimme the hot sauce!"

lol I've taught my daughter to root for the Bulls, but she makes it sound like a race war. "The white ones are good and the red ones are bad!"

 

Oh yeah...the same thing happens here too. We always have to make clear who the good guys and bad guys are by jersey color. Also, my son thinks "The Bulls" are synonymous with "Derrick Rose". He'll routinely ask me if Derrick Rose won the night before. The only other Bull he knows by name is MJ, from watching me play NBA2k11.

SouthSideRyan MVP

SouthSideRyan

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
That Gibson dunk was so sudden, so unexpected, that I flipped my [expletive].

I woke my daughter up yelling at that.

 

My whole family was asleep upstairs during the 2nd Gibson dunk and I just dropped on the floor and screamed into the carpet. My son had just gone to sleep around the 1st dunk so I just pumped my fist and did some crazy kicking motion that my wife thought was interesting.

 

Anytime, I yell and cheer at the Bulls when my 4yo son is awake, even if he's in the other room, he'll yell "Gimme the hot sauce!"

lol I've taught my daughter to root for the Bulls, but she makes it sound like a race war. "The white ones are good and the red ones are bad!"

 

Road games are going to be tricky.

DivineBovine Myrtle Beach Pelicans

DivineBovine

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
A huge percentage of his offense is fast breaks and dunks

 

Lebron takes less shots at the rim (Why are we looking down on this again?) than Derrick Rose. To go along with this he shoots at a better rate from every distance except 3 (0.2% advantage to Rose in eFG%)

 

And why isn't his shot better?

 

Was that a serious question?

 

 

I never said DRose is better than LeBron. I was comparing him to Kobe and MJ.

 

And its tough to compare a 6-8 forward to a 6-2 PG. But DRose is much better at driving to the basket. He makes more contested drives to the rim. There's no question who I'd rather have with the ball if you absolutely needed a basket. I know stats will always say that LeBron is the best player ever. But that was my whole point. I don't always buy the stats. If LeBron wins 5 or 6 championships, I'll change my mind.

 

And yes, the shot question was a serious one. A lot of guys have developed a shot as their careers have gone on. A guy who is 6-8, has crazy strength and a crazy vertical, who is supposed to be the best player in basketball (and who many argue is the best of all time), should have a better shot. He's not a 6-2 PG who has to work a bit harder to get a shot.

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