College Basketball 2011-2012

brinoch · February 10, 2012

Also, Bruce Weber is a pretty big whiner and a mediocre coach at best. The Illini played a good first half and shot well to start the second half. But they never answered IU's drives and took too many jumpers when Leonard was in the post or when cuts were open. I felt they were rushing their shots a bit as well. Leonard and Zeller are both really talented and watching them was pretty fun.

We have all pointed out the facts before. IU was clearly the more aggressive team. Layup attempts clearly don't tell the story, especially when most of the FTs were due to players driving to the hoop. The daggers in the game were Hulls getting to the baseline, finding Zeller for a dunk and 1. And then him getting in the lane and hitting Watford for the 3. IU made a legit effort to get to the rim on almost every drive in the 2nd half. That should be pretty clear from anyone watching the game. It also should be common sense that that's how most basketball games are officiated. The aggressive team gets the calls.

If you guys want to complain about the ticky-tack calls that got IU in the bonus in the 2nd, I also think IU was called for several of those in the 2nd half, albeit later in the half.

To be fair, watching the game, I noticed that at the beginning of the second half, IU was extremely aggressive in getting to the basket and there were a lot of fouls called. It was a more tightly called game than in the first half, and it seemed the refs made a conscious effort to tighten up the game. And in a tightly called game, that strongly favors the more aggressive team.

If the Illini fans in general weren't so crappy towards IU and hadn't been so disrespectful the last couple of years, I might be able to be more objective.

Oh, a thousand pardons sire. How awful of us to pick at IU for no reason.

Much better.

brinoch · February 10, 2012

I don't care what those numbers say, nobody gets the home court advantage that Wisconsin does. There's no way a team that only allows 55 points per game never fouls like them in Madison.

It seems different arenas have different types of games -- I always expect the games in Mackey or Breslin to be extremely physical without a lot of calls, for example. Perhaps the character of the teams is reflected in how the games are called. I do think B1G refs are terrible, and have been consistently so for a very long time.

Exile on Waveland · February 10, 2012

IU has finished dead last in both major sports for what, four years running?

They didn't do anything fast.

If the NCAA had balls the penalties for IUs cheating would've lasted longer. Let's not forget the basketball program was in the dumps because they hired a known cheater, and he *gasp* cheated again.

First, IU has finished dead last for one year running in basketball (last -- next to last -- last over the previous three seasons).

Second, as to IU's punishment -- which was deserved -- please compare and contrast the infractions and on-court/field repurcussions for Memphis basketball, Ohio State basketball, USC football, Ohio State football, etc. I think you'll find IU suffered severely for its sin -- and more severely for some more egregious infractions. (Lest we also not forget that Purdue was not banned from post-season play for arranging an improper $4,000 loan to a recruit.)

Exile on Waveland · February 10, 2012

Who do you think the rest of the Big Ten was playing?

Oh, tons of patsies for sure. As many as IU? Or equal enough across twelve teams to draw a reliable conclusion? I'm not sure that would be the case.

Sosa21MVP · February 10, 2012

IU has finished dead last in both major sports for what, four years running?

They didn't do anything fast.

If the NCAA had balls the penalties for IUs cheating would've lasted longer. Let's not forget the basketball program was in the dumps because they hired a known cheater, and he *gasp* cheated again.

First, IU has finished dead last for one year running in basketball (last -- next to last -- last over the previous three seasons).

Second, as to IU's punishment -- which was deserved -- please compare and contrast the infractions and on-court/field repurcussions for Memphis basketball, Ohio State basketball, USC football, Ohio State football, etc. I think you'll find IU suffered severely for its sin -- and more severely for some more egregious infractions. (Lest we also not forget that Purdue was not banned from post-season play for arranging an improper $4,000 loan to a recruit.)

Honestly, it wasn't Indiana's NCAA punishment that brought the program down. It was the fact that none of Sampson's players were willing to stick around and play for Crean. All those guys quit or got kicked off the team. If Bassett, Crawford, Ellis, etc all came back, it would have certainly eased the transition process for Crean. He would not have been required to do a mad, last minute recruiting scramble just to field a team in 2008-09.

SouthSideRyan · February 10, 2012

Right, the NCAA felt bad for Indiana because their team all left, so they gave them no punishment. I'm curious how long it took them to stop laughing when they added the postseason ban.

Exile on Waveland · February 10, 2012

IU has finished dead last in both major sports for what, four years running?

They didn't do anything fast.

If the NCAA had balls the penalties for IUs cheating would've lasted longer. Let's not forget the basketball program was in the dumps because they hired a known cheater, and he *gasp* cheated again.

First, IU has finished dead last for one year running in basketball (last -- next to last -- last over the previous three seasons).

Second, as to IU's punishment -- which was deserved -- please compare and contrast the infractions and on-court/field repurcussions for Memphis basketball, Ohio State basketball, USC football, Ohio State football, etc. I think you'll find IU suffered severely for its sin -- and more severely for some more egregious infractions. (Lest we also not forget that Purdue was not banned from post-season play for arranging an improper $4,000 loan to a recruit.)

Honestly, it wasn't Indiana's NCAA punishment that brought the program down. It was the fact that none of Sampson's players were willing to stick around and play for Crean. All those guys quit or got kicked off the team. If Bassett, Crawford, Ellis, etc all came back, it would have certainly eased the transition process for Crean. He would not have been required to do a mad, last minute recruiting scramble just to field a team in 2008-09.

The self-imposed punishment is part and parcel to the NCAA's punishment; I don't think you can separate those two things. The NCAA almost certainly came down softer on IU because of IU's actions in rectifying their awful, unforgivable mistake. IU sinned and has suffered; it's pretty difficult to make a claim otherwise.

SouthSideRyan · February 10, 2012

The self-imposed punishment is part and parcel to the NCAA's punishment; I don't think you can separate those two things. The NCAA almost certainly came down softer on IU because of IU's actions in rectifying their awful, unforgivable mistake. IU sinned and has suffered; it's pretty difficult to make a claim otherwise.

Self-imposed punishment meaning what exactly? Not re-admitting players who had failed out of school? Not forcing recruits/players who were weirded out by Tom Crean to stay at Indiana?

SouthSideRyan · February 10, 2012

Was playing Daniel Moore part of the sanctions? One of those make-a-wish foundation things?

brinoch · February 10, 2012

The self-imposed punishment is part and parcel to the NCAA's punishment; I don't think you can separate those two things. The NCAA almost certainly came down softer on IU because of IU's actions in rectifying their awful, unforgivable mistake. IU sinned and has suffered; it's pretty difficult to make a claim otherwise.

Self-imposed punishment meaning what exactly? Not re-admitting players who had failed out of school? Not forcing recruits/players who were weirded out by Tom Crean to stay at Indiana?

1. 3 years probation

2. 2 Years of restrictions on recruiting calls tighter than is permitted by the NCAA.

3. Reduced off-campus recruiting opportunities and took away a basketball scholarship for 2008-09. The off-campus recruiting penalties were extended to Tom Crean after he took the job in April, but IU opted to allow Crean 10 days to recruit off-campus.

4. The basketball staff also had one less coach available for recruiting during the 2007-08 recruiting year.

5. Sampson also voluntarily agreed to forego a $500,000 compensation increase for the 2007-2008 season.

Smack · February 10, 2012

IU has finished dead last in both major sports for what, four years running?

They didn't do anything fast.

If the NCAA had balls the penalties for IUs cheating would've lasted longer. Let's not forget the basketball program was in the dumps because they hired a known cheater, and he *gasp* cheated again.

First, IU has finished dead last for one year running in basketball (last -- next to last -- last over the previous three seasons).

Second, as to IU's punishment -- which was deserved -- please compare and contrast the infractions and on-court/field repurcussions for Memphis basketball, Ohio State basketball, USC football, Ohio State football, etc. I think you'll find IU suffered severely for its sin -- and more severely for some more egregious infractions. (Lest we also not forget that Purdue was not banned from post-season play for arranging an improper $4,000 loan to a recruit.)

Sorry, thanks for correcting my statement. IU has only averaged the worst finish in the league over those years, while finishing last most of the time.

Also, you're bringing up one isolated issue from 1995? Really? I mean it's only been 17 years and it pales in comparisson to Sampson and what IU wilfully brought on themselves.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Smack

CubColtPacer · February 10, 2012

Who do you think the rest of the Big Ten was playing?

Oh, tons of patsies for sure. As many as IU? Or equal enough across twelve teams to draw a reliable conclusion? I'm not sure that would be the case.

IU's shot 35 or more free throws 6 times this season (Savannah State, Butler, Howard, UMBC, Purdue, Illinois). 5 of those were at home. 3 of those were against teams they shouldn't have been playing. Illinois wasn't the highest either-IU shot 47 free throws in a game earlier in the season.

I would have been a lot more interested if the author had restricted his sample to top 150 teams. The patsies IMO don't give you a very clear picture. In those games, IU was just using its athleticism to overwhelm them. It's certainly possible that IU would still have the biggest distinction, but I'm guessing it would be a lot closer.

Smack · February 10, 2012

Also, lol.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/36567/what-in-the-world-was-tom-crean-thinking

SouthSideRyan · February 10, 2012

1. 3 years probation
2. 2 Years of restrictions on recruiting calls tighter than is permitted by the NCAA.
3. Reduced off-campus recruiting opportunities and took away a basketball scholarship for 2008-09. The off-campus recruiting penalties were extended to Tom Crean after he took the job in April, but IU opted to allow Crean 10 days to recruit off-campus.
4. The basketball staff also had one less coach available for recruiting during the 2007-08 recruiting year.
5. Sampson also voluntarily agreed to forego a $500,000 compensation increase for the 2007-2008 season.

1. BFD

2. I WONDER WHY

3. Funnier than the postseason ban.

4. How often are all coaches used for recruiting? How long was this "punishment" for? If it came about when the Sampson stuff came out, this was a 2 month punishment? If it was before the season when the other stuff happened(Senderoff maybe?), then it had nothing to do with what Indiana was being punished for.

5. That sounds like a reward for Indiana

So Indiana got restrictions on phone calls (It's just phone calls!!) and saved $500,000.

SouthSideRyan · February 10, 2012

Also, lol.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/36567/what-in-the-world-was-tom-crean-thinking

Worth it to secure Harris's commitment.

Exile on Waveland · February 10, 2012

The self-imposed punishment is part and parcel to the NCAA's punishment; I don't think you can separate those two things. The NCAA almost certainly came down softer on IU because of IU's actions in rectifying their awful, unforgivable mistake. IU sinned and has suffered; it's pretty difficult to make a claim otherwise.

Self-imposed punishment meaning what exactly? Not re-admitting players who had failed out of school? Not forcing recruits/players who were weirded out by Tom Crean to stay at Indiana?

Do we have to do this again? Seriously?

IU self-imploded a promising season by -- rightly, if too slowly -- firing Sampson mid-season (compare to the actions of cesspools like Memphis or Tennessee). None of the players remained (not all had failed out). None of the coaches remained. The athletic director is gone. The university president is gone. IU self-imposed sanctions (various recruiting restrictions, scholarship reduction), which the NCAA committee considered "substantial." And, yes, "the committee did note the current condition of the program." Which, again, was twenty-eight overall wins and eight Big Ten wins over three seasons. That's punishment.

IU did a lot wrong in hiring Sampson and staying with him a few months too long; but, beginning with their decision to fire IU, it's difficult to fault their handling of the situation. IU carpet-bombed their program. No, it's not the hari-kiri for every Hoosier fan that you would have preferred, but it resulted in some lean, lean times which other programs that paid players have not suffered through.

Sosa21MVP · February 10, 2012

Right, the NCAA felt bad for Indiana because their team all left, so they gave them no punishment. I'm curious how long it took them to stop laughing when they added the postseason ban.

No, what I was saying is the players left AFTER the NCAA punishment. The NCAA ruling by itself didn't cause IU to start over, it was Sampson's collection of miscreants quitting that did that. I'm not at all arguing the NCAA did the right thing either way.

Exile on Waveland · February 10, 2012

IU has finished dead last in both major sports for what, four years running?

They didn't do anything fast.

If the NCAA had balls the penalties for IUs cheating would've lasted longer. Let's not forget the basketball program was in the dumps because they hired a known cheater, and he *gasp* cheated again.

First, IU has finished dead last for one year running in basketball (last -- next to last -- last over the previous three seasons).

Second, as to IU's punishment -- which was deserved -- please compare and contrast the infractions and on-court/field repurcussions for Memphis basketball, Ohio State basketball, USC football, Ohio State football, etc. I think you'll find IU suffered severely for its sin -- and more severely for some more egregious infractions. (Lest we also not forget that Purdue was not banned from post-season play for arranging an improper $4,000 loan to a recruit.)

Sorry, thanks for correcting my statement. IU has only averaged the worst finish in the league over those years, while finishing last most of the time.

Also, you're bringing up one isolated issue from 1995? Really? I mean it's only been 17 years and it pales in comparisson to Sampson and what IU wilfully brought on themselves.

Ostensibly paying a player to secure his commitment pales in comparison to hiring a coach that makes too many phone calls (then that coach making too many phone calls)? Sorry, can't agree.

Further, the Sampson debacle was the one infraction IU has had in the modern era of basketball. IU had been the cleanest (competitive) major college basketball team for over a half century. The hiring of Sampson was the anomaly, not the norm.

Sosa21MVP · February 10, 2012

IU has finished dead last in both major sports for what, four years running?

They didn't do anything fast.

If the NCAA had balls the penalties for IUs cheating would've lasted longer. Let's not forget the basketball program was in the dumps because they hired a known cheater, and he *gasp* cheated again.

First, IU has finished dead last for one year running in basketball (last -- next to last -- last over the previous three seasons).

Second, as to IU's punishment -- which was deserved -- please compare and contrast the infractions and on-court/field repurcussions for Memphis basketball, Ohio State basketball, USC football, Ohio State football, etc. I think you'll find IU suffered severely for its sin -- and more severely for some more egregious infractions. (Lest we also not forget that Purdue was not banned from post-season play for arranging an improper $4,000 loan to a recruit.)

Honestly, it wasn't Indiana's NCAA punishment that brought the program down. It was the fact that none of Sampson's players were willing to stick around and play for Crean. All those guys quit or got kicked off the team. If Bassett, Crawford, Ellis, etc all came back, it would have certainly eased the transition process for Crean. He would not have been required to do a mad, last minute recruiting scramble just to field a team in 2008-09.

The self-imposed punishment is part and parcel to the NCAA's punishment; I don't think you can separate those two things. The NCAA almost certainly came down softer on IU because of IU's actions in rectifying their awful, unforgivable mistake. IU sinned and has suffered; it's pretty difficult to make a claim otherwise.

No. The NCAA ruling had nothing to do with those players deciding they didn't want to go to class or quit or whatever. They could have turned over a new leaf under Crean and banded together. They chose not to.

Magnetic Curses · February 10, 2012

Also, lol.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/36567/what-in-the-world-was-tom-crean-thinking

Worth it to secure Harris's commitment.

Crean bet Harris a backrub that he wouldn't get caught.

Smack · February 10, 2012

Also, lol.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/36567/what-in-the-world-was-tom-crean-thinking

Worth it to secure Harris's commitment.

Do you think Tom Crean showing up to see him unexpectedly, like a freakish stalker, had a negative impact?

Sosa21MVP · February 10, 2012

Also, lol.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/36567/what-in-the-world-was-tom-crean-thinking

Worth it to secure Harris's commitment.

Do you think Tom Crean showing up to see him unexpectedly, like a freakish stalker, had a negative impact?

The real question is will Purdue beat Indiana again in this decade? I'm not too sure about that one. :-k

Exile on Waveland · February 10, 2012

IU has finished dead last in both major sports for what, four years running?

They didn't do anything fast.

If the NCAA had balls the penalties for IUs cheating would've lasted longer. Let's not forget the basketball program was in the dumps because they hired a known cheater, and he *gasp* cheated again.

First, IU has finished dead last for one year running in basketball (last -- next to last -- last over the previous three seasons).

Second, as to IU's punishment -- which was deserved -- please compare and contrast the infractions and on-court/field repurcussions for Memphis basketball, Ohio State basketball, USC football, Ohio State football, etc. I think you'll find IU suffered severely for its sin -- and more severely for some more egregious infractions. (Lest we also not forget that Purdue was not banned from post-season play for arranging an improper $4,000 loan to a recruit.)

Honestly, it wasn't Indiana's NCAA punishment that brought the program down. It was the fact that none of Sampson's players were willing to stick around and play for Crean. All those guys quit or got kicked off the team. If Bassett, Crawford, Ellis, etc all came back, it would have certainly eased the transition process for Crean. He would not have been required to do a mad, last minute recruiting scramble just to field a team in 2008-09.

The self-imposed punishment is part and parcel to the NCAA's punishment; I don't think you can separate those two things. The NCAA almost certainly came down softer on IU because of IU's actions in rectifying their awful, unforgivable mistake. IU sinned and has suffered; it's pretty difficult to make a claim otherwise.

No. The NCAA ruling had nothing to do with those players deciding they didn't want to go to class or quit or whatever. They could have turned over a new leaf under Crean and banded together. They chose not to.

True . . . but the player's departure did impact the NCAA's decision. Again, after those players had left the NCAA's decision came down in November of 2008, and noted: "the committee did note the current condition of the program."

Magnetic Curses · February 10, 2012

Also, lol.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/36567/what-in-the-world-was-tom-crean-thinking

Worth it to secure Harris's commitment.

Do you think Tom Crean showing up to see him unexpectedly, like a freakish stalker, had a negative impact?

The real question is will Purdue beat Indiana again in this decade? I'm not too sure about that one. :-k

i'm beginning to wonder if indiana will have a letdown game this year. i don't see it.

SouthSideRyan · February 10, 2012

Also, lol.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/36567/what-in-the-world-was-tom-crean-thinking

Worth it to secure Harris's commitment.

Do you think Tom Crean showing up to see him unexpectedly, like a freakish stalker, had a negative impact?

Oh did he not commit to Indiana? My mistake.

College Basketball 2011-2012

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Create an account or sign in to comment

Create an account

Sign in

Member Statistics

Prospect News & Highlights

Recent News

Notes & Rumors

Recent Blogs