Pujols signs with Angels pg 151

[davell]

I think losing Ramirez doesn't help our cause whatsoever to get Pujols or Prince. If the money is close, I figure they'll go to the team with the most help currently around them. On another note, Levine made it a point to mention that Prince may not want to play in Chicago today in his chat like half a dozen times. Maybe he's already heard that somewhere, I guess.

[Guest]

I wasn't just talking from the perspective that we need one of them, but just pointing out when you have this much money to spend in free agency and you know you're not spending it on 3B, well.... how many other places can you spend it?

 

 

1b, starting rotation. If you really wanted to, you could probably upgrade 2b or CF with a free agent as well.

 

I'm starting to think that 2012 is really going to be ugly unless Theo has some magic trades to make. To me it's looking like Pena or LaHair at 1B, Flaherty/Baker/DeWitt at 3B, Byrd/Colvin in RF, and no Wilson in the rotation.

 

 

So you expect them to roll with like a $100M payroll?

[Guest]

I think losing Ramirez doesn't help our cause whatsoever to get Pujols or Prince. If the money is close, I figure they'll go to the team with the most help currently around them. On another note, Levine made it a point to mention that Prince may not want to play in Chicago today in his chat like half a dozen times. Maybe he's already heard that somewhere, I guess.

 

He's been saying that forever. And he says it like it's his opinion.. "Why would anyone good want to come here??!"

 

Oh, I don't know... a major market, great front office and something like 70 million coming off the books over the next two seasons. Other than that stuff, no reason.

[jersey cubs fan]

I think losing Ramirez doesn't help our cause whatsoever to get Pujols or Prince. If the money is close, I figure they'll go to the team with the most help currently around them.

 

Yeah, it's going to be really tough to sell guys on the whole "chance to win" idea. It's going to have to be about the money for now.

[Guest]

I think losing Ramirez doesn't help our cause whatsoever to get Pujols or Prince. If the money is close, I figure they'll go to the team with the most help currently around them.

 

Yeah, it's going to be really tough to sell guys on the whole "chance to win" idea. It's going to have to be about the money for now.

 

 

You shifted your opinion entirely based on letting Ramirez walk?

[jersey cubs fan]

I think losing Ramirez doesn't help our cause whatsoever to get Pujols or Prince. If the money is close, I figure they'll go to the team with the most help currently around them.

 

Yeah, it's going to be really tough to sell guys on the whole "chance to win" idea. It's going to have to be about the money for now.

 

 

You shifted your opinion entirely based on letting Ramirez walk?

 

Huh?

 

I think the Cubs are capable of fielding a decent team next year, but it will require bringing in a couple studs. The problem is the team without those studs pretty much sucks, so you'd have to convince them to come with money. That's been my opinion all along. The lack of Ramirez just makes the supporting cast look that much worse.

[Guest]

I think losing Ramirez doesn't help our cause whatsoever to get Pujols or Prince. If the money is close, I figure they'll go to the team with the most help currently around them.

 

Yeah, it's going to be really tough to sell guys on the whole "chance to win" idea. It's going to have to be about the money for now.

 

 

You shifted your opinion entirely based on letting Ramirez walk?

 

Huh?

 

I think the Cubs are capable of fielding a decent team next year, but it will require bringing in a couple studs. The problem is the team without those studs pretty much sucks, so you'd have to convince them to come with money. That's been my opinion all along. The lack of Ramirez just makes the supporting cast look that much worse.

 

 

Gotcha. I don't disagree.

[davell]

I think a quick trade for some middle of the order help would certainly entice Pujols or Fielder quite a bit. I doubt we have enough to actually land Wright, but I could see us trying anyway. My guess is it's the only direction we can really go, because the FA hitting absolutely sucks in this class at positions we could stand to improve in.

[jersey cubs fan]

I think a quick trade for some middle of the order help would certainly entice Pujols or Fielder quite a bit. I doubt we have enough to actually land Wright, but I could see us trying anyway. My guess is it's the only direction we can really go, because the FA hitting absolutely sucks in this class at positions we could stand to improve in.

 

I think we'd be better off letting the money do the talking for now and have Theo/Hoyer talk to them about future plans.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

Another offseason I wouldn't mind seeing:

 

Pujols 8 years 250 million

 

Sign CJ Wilson 5 years 86 million

 

Resign Shark at whatever 80% of last year's pay was.

 

Trade: Ryan Flaherty, Chris Carpenter, Nick Struck/Robert Whitenack, Austin Kirk, and Reggie Golden to the Padres for 3B Chase Headley and LHP Clayton Richard.

 

Trade Marlon Byrd to the Indians for RHP Zach Putnam.

 

Sign Grady Sizemore at for 1 year 8 million with performance based incentives that can almost double it.

 

Trade CL Carlos Marmol and RHP Randy Wells to the Phillies for RHP Phillippe Aumont, Jiwan James, Maikel Franco, and further fodder.

 

Sign Jon Broxton to 1 year 5 million incentive laden deal.

 

Sign former Yankees propsect Andrew Brackman to a minor league deal.

 

SP depth:

 

Wilson

Garza

Dempster

Zambrano

Cashner

Richard

Coleman

Putnam

 

Bullpen:

 

Brackman

Beliveau

Gaub

Putnam

Aumont

Russell

Shark

Broxton

Marshall

 

(Cashner can be bullpen or rotation since it's up in the air)

 

etc.

 

1B: Pujols

2B: LeMahieu (Yeah...)

SS: Castro

3B: Headley

 

OF:

 

Soriano

Sizemore

Colvin

Jackson

 

That's a rough version...I don't feel like I made the OF better here by getting rid of Jackson and replacing him with Sizemore...there's more upside, but way more volatility there.

[Guest]

Why would you start Colvin over Jackson?

[17 Seconds]

Is there any chance at all that the Yankees don't offer Wilson at least 100 million? They are desperate for starting pitching and they know they can get away with overpaying guys.

[davell]

I'm more worried that CJ's comments yesterday definitely made it sound like Texas has the ball and has to drop it, in order for him to leave.

[17 Seconds]

with the stacked class of free agent starting pitching that iwll be available next offseason, i'm not even that interested in wilson.

[davell]

I put this in another thread as well, but I think it breaks down like this basically: we need 2 middle of the order type hitters and 2 frontline pitchers. I think the goal should be have them all by the end of NEXT offseason. It shouldn't matter when we acquire them, because we don't have the money to go get them all right now. My guess is we get one this offseason and another over the course of next season, leaving us needing 2 over the following offseason. Next offseason's pitching class will dwindle a bit, but for now the class includes Matt Cain, fausto Carmona, John Danks, Gavin Floyd, Zack Greinke, Cole Hamels, Tim Hudson, Francisco Liriano, Shaun Marcum, Jake Peavy, Anibal Sanchez.Jonathan Sanchez, Joe Saunders, and Scott Shields. Not to mention trade possibilities will pop up as well. But, with cost controlled cheap players we have currently, we've got around 30 or 35 mill to spend this offseason. And it looks like we'll have a little more than that for next offseason as well. And while most media types look at this as a longterm rebuild, I bet Theo is looking at it more like I am, which is we can add 4 impact players before the 2013 season starts and it's just a matter of figuring out what combinations work the best for us.

[17 Seconds]

they only need 1 frontline starting pitcher, and then another middle of the rotation guy. garza is a very good second starter,

[Guest]

they only need 1 frontline starting pitcher, and then another middle of the rotation guy. garza is a very good second starter,

 

 

Two would be [expletive] awesome, though. And we should have the resources to do it. Especially if the farm system has produced some decently productive complimentary pieces heading into 2013.

 

I'd love to have a ridiculous youngish rotation again (hopefully it ends up better this time).

[davell]

True, but I want to build a powerhouse. Although some of what I listed as available for next offseason would be construed as middle of the rotation guys anyway. Of course, the real hope is we'll have a guy step up from the system and give us another guy on top of what we can add monetarily as well.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

Is there any chance at all that the Yankees don't offer Wilson at least 100 million? They are desperate for starting pitching and they know they can get away with overpaying guys.

 

Alot of chance probably...

 

David, only early on if that...I see Jackson getting a little AAA time. You'd think the bigger knock is that my rich team is relying somewhat heavily on Sizemore there. Theo's Red Sox FO always had a little crush on Beltran, who I'd love for a deal similar to what many want to give to Ramirez. Even then that's alot of relying on recently injured OFs...Still huuuuge Beltran fan myself...Anyway good to know that 430 didn't mean overly crazy plan...,

Edited November 2, 2011 by KingKongvs.Godzilla

[dew1679666265]

Is there any chance at all that the Yankees don't offer Wilson at least 100 million? They are desperate for starting pitching and they know they can get away with overpaying guys.

 

It's possible, but I don't think they'll be major players for CJ unless the Steinbrenners fall in love with him. They just gave an extension to CC at 5/122 (24 AAV) and have Teixeira, ARod, Burnett, Jeter, Cano, Soriano, Granderson all locked up for long periods of time (a couple through 2013, the rest through 2015-2017).

 

Obviously that's not going to stop them if they really want Wilson, but Cashman doesn't tend to be the free spender that the Steinbrenners are. After investing the big money in CC, I could see them making a push for Oswalt, Buerhle, or Edwin Jackson who they can get for lesser money and years. I could be wrong, but I don't think it's a shoe-in they jump in with a major money deal.

 

with the stacked class of free agent starting pitching that iwll be available next offseason, i'm not even that interested in wilson.

 

Here's the problem - there's plenty of reason to believe most of the pitchers currently slated to be available, won't be.

 

Matt Cain - the Giants aren't a poor team and could afford to bring Cain back with the young, cheap talent they have coming up. If they can dump some Zito salary on somebody this year or next, that makes it all the more likely they retain Cain.

 

John Danks - could be had in trade this offseason potentially, but will cost a lot. As for the 2013 offseason, the Sox aren't in a financial bind at this point and there's really no reason for them to let a young pitcher like Danks walk for nothing. I'd expect him to be re-signed if they can't get a trade done.

 

Zack Greinke - very likely to near certain to be on the market unless the Brewers fall out of the race and deal him midseason.

 

Cole Hamels - the Phillies have a higher payroll than the Cubs, have already let Oswalt go, and only have Halladay and Lee currently set in their rotation. They have prospects, but also no reason not to bring back Hamels. I'd be surprised if they let him walk.

 

Anibal Sanchez - probably second to Greinke as most likely to be a FA next season, but is also very good trade bait at the deadline if Florida's out of it.

 

James Shields - has an extremely affordable $9 million option with the Rays - no reason for them to not pick it up.

 

So basically there's a really good chance that only two of those guys hit free agency and that's if they're not traded. If Wilson becomes a FA, then he's a certainty to be available and we have the money to get him. He's also comparable to every pitcher in that list and better than a number of them. There's really no reason to pass on him with the thought that somebody better might come available next year.

[17 Seconds]

Is there any chance at all that the Yankees don't offer Wilson at least 100 million? They are desperate for starting pitching and they know they can get away with overpaying guys.

 

Alot of chance probably...

 

they have no other holes to fill, they're desperate for starting pitching, and wilson is the only legitmately good/proven guy on the market. i don't see how they don't offer him AT LEAST 100 million.

 

the yankees number 2 starter in the playoffs last year was freddy garcia. who did they have beyond that? burnett? colon?

 

yeah, they're going to go hard after wilson.

Edited November 2, 2011 by 17 Seconds

[dew1679666265]

I'm more worried that CJ's comments yesterday definitely made it sound like Texas has the ball and has to drop it, in order for him to leave.

 

This is my biggest concern. I think there's a good chance he never hits the market.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

Is there any chance at all that the Yankees don't offer Wilson at least 100 million? They are desperate for starting pitching and they know they can get away with overpaying guys.

 

Alot of chance probably...

 

they have no other holes to fill, they're desperate for starting pitching, and wilson is the only legitmately good/proven guy on the market. i don't see how they don't offer him AT LEAST 100 million.

 

the yankees number 2 starter in the playoffs last year was freddy garcia. who did they have beyond that? burnett? colon?

 

yeah, they're going to go hard after wilson.

 

That doesn't mean they a) land him or b) throw another long term 100 million contract out with Cano still not locked up long term.

[Guest]

Kingkong, why would you slate Colvin ahead of Jackson in your 2012 plan?

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm more worried that CJ's comments yesterday definitely made it sound like Texas has the ball and has to drop it, in order for him to leave.

 

This is my biggest concern. I think there's a good chance he never hits the market.

 

Yeah, I didn't know about the monster TV deal the Rangers set up last year. Those guys have money to burn.