Pujols signs with Angels pg 151

[Sammy Sofa]

CURSES.

 

Make that 35 instead of 32.

 

And make my next one a double.

[jersey cubs fan]

Wouldn't a team be able to get out of a contract if it was revealed a player was, say, 3 years older than they claimed to be when they signed the deal? I think with Soriano the teams involved claimed they knew what was up, but how would that work if Pujols turned out to be 35 instead of 32 and the Cubs claimed they were duped?

 

It worked that way on Liar, Liar so I assume that's true.

[Sammy Sofa]

So nobody actually knows?

[bukie]

Well, the most relevant recent example I can think of was Soriano. I don't think any reduction or modification in contract resulted when they discovered he was 3 years old than he claimed.

[Sammy Sofa]

Well, the most relevant recent example I can think of was Soriano. I don't think any reduction or modification in contract resulted when they discovered he was 3 years old than he claimed.

 

But as I said, both the Yankees and Rangers claimed they knew what was up so neither side accused Soriano of anything that could seemingly impact his contract. My question is if a team claims that they were duped by the player when they signed him do they have options after the fact if it's revealed he's older than he claims?

[jersey cubs fan]

Well, the most relevant recent example I can think of was Soriano. I don't think any reduction or modification in contract resulted when they discovered he was 3 years old than he claimed.

 

But as I said, both the Yankees and Rangers claimed they knew what was up so neither side accused Soriano of anything that could seemingly impact his contract. My question is if a team claims that they were duped by the player when they signed him do they have options after the fact if it's revealed he's older than he claims?

 

Teams have gotten out of contracts to younger imported free agents that were proven to have lied, have they not? If you can get out of the contract for a 21 year old prospect who said he was 17, I don't see why you couldn't get out of a contract for a 35 year old free agent who said he was 31. I'm sure the latter will have better lawyers and be able to come to a buyout, but the owner should have a leg to stand on, unless he knew what was up all along and just chose to try and get out of the deal.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Well, the most relevant recent example I can think of was Soriano. I don't think any reduction or modification in contract resulted when they discovered he was 3 years old than he claimed.

 

But as I said, both the Yankees and Rangers claimed they knew what was up so neither side accused Soriano of anything that could seemingly impact his contract. My question is if a team claims that they were duped by the player when they signed him do they have options after the fact if it's revealed he's older than he claims?

 

Teams have gotten out of contracts to younger imported free agents that were proven to have lied, have they not? If you can get out of the contract for a 21 year old prospect who said he was 17, I don't see why you couldn't get out of a contract for a 35 year old free agent who said he was 31. I'm sure the latter will have better lawyers and be able to come to a buyout, but the owner should have a leg to stand on, unless he knew what was up all along and just chose to try and get out of the deal.

 

Those international players likely didnt have the MLBPA backing them. Even if we could cut ties with Soriano and get off scot free, I don't know if it would be worth their wrath.

[javy knows my name]

Well, the most relevant recent example I can think of was Soriano. I don't think any reduction or modification in contract resulted when they discovered he was 3 years old than he claimed.

 

What am I missing about what happened with Tejada? I thought it would be a perfect example of this exact thing happening, and the team he was on didn't really have (or at least seek) any recourse with regards to violation of terms. Someone help me; I'm lost.

[Sammy Sofa]

Well, the most relevant recent example I can think of was Soriano. I don't think any reduction or modification in contract resulted when they discovered he was 3 years old than he claimed.

 

What am I missing about what happened with Tejada? I thought it would be a perfect example of this exact thing happening, and the team he was on didn't really have (or at least seek) any recourse with regards to violation of terms. Someone help me; I'm lost.

 

[expletive], that's a good point; I forgot about Tejada.

[Have a seat, Neifi]

Bill Ladson of MLB.com reporting that the Nats apparently will not pursue Prince Field this offseason.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

Watching Fielder the past couple of years and then seeing a highlight tonight....why does his size worry anyone in any significant way? The guy's built like a tank rather than the tub of lard his height/weight numbers would make it look.

 

I still don't lean towards him in the Pujols vs. Fielder debate, but at worst he's 1ab to Pujols.

[Little Slide Rooter]

One thing that's really starting to drive me nuts is that every-time I turn on the radio and they're talking Cubs, they seem to talk as though developing the farm system and acquiring veterans through trades and FA is an either or proposition. The Yankees, Red Sox, and Phillies will gladly tell you that you can produce top players from the farm and trade for or sign star players too. As for those who talk about teams who produce the stars racking up top draft picks, when was the last time the Yankees or Red Sox had a top 10 pick, yet they manage to produce stars without a problem, plus they each seem to have at least 1 big acquisition every off season.

 

To go further, these same people seem to talk as though if we were to sign Pujols or Fielder, and we don't win the 2012 World Series, it's a failure and a waste of money. Really? because I assumed that either one of those guy would demand at least 6 years, and in the next 2-3 offseason, we have a LOT of money coming off the books, and a lot of elite talent potentially hitting the market. If we make some big signings, a trade here and there, and produce some quality players from the farm, even if they're not stars, we can actually look like a big market team again.

 

A lot of people are just too gun shy after Soriano, Bradley, and Zambrano, and seem to assume that any player we give more than a 3/20 contract to will turn into a pumpkin within 2 years.

 

This is why I'd love to see Cashman or Epstein come to town, as unlikely as it is. They won't sit around and wait until 2015 to win.

[Guest]

One thing that's really starting to drive me nuts is that every-time I turn on the radio and they're talking Cubs, they seem to talk as though developing the farm system and acquiring veterans through trades

 

I mega-loathe this kind of talk. The Cubs are not the A's or the Twins, they are a major market and can afford to develop the farm system and improve the major league team at the same time. It's really mind-boggling that there are people who call themselves "Cubs fans" who think the Cubs have to do one or the other. Not true, the Cubs can do both and they should do both.

Edited August 29, 2011 by NorthsideAvenger

[Tryptamine]

One thing that's really starting to drive me nuts is that every-time I turn on the radio and they're talking Cubs, they seem to talk as though developing the farm system and acquiring veterans through trades

 

I mega-loathe this kind of talk. The Cubs are not the A's or the Twins, they are a major market and can afford to develop the farm system and imrpove the major league team at the same time. It's really mind-boggling that there are people who call themselves "Cubs fans" who think the Cubs have to do one or the other. Not true, the Cubs can do both and they should do both.

 

The people I talk to who believe this crap don't think we shouldn't spend at all, they think we should wait until the prospects are all up and producing them somehow go on one huge off season spending spree that fills all our holes in just that one off season. There's clearly a bit of delusion going on there.

[Little Slide Rooter]

One thing that's really starting to drive me nuts is that every-time I turn on the radio and they're talking Cubs, they seem to talk as though developing the farm system and acquiring veterans through trades

 

I mega-loathe this kind of talk. The Cubs are not the A's or the Twins, they are a major market and can afford to develop the farm system and imrpove the major league team at the same time. It's really mind-boggling that there are people who call themselves "Cubs fans" who think the Cubs have to do one or the other. Not true, the Cubs can do both and they should do both.

 

The people I talk to who believe this crap don't think we shouldn't spend at all, they think we should wait until the prospects are all up and producing them somehow go on one huge off season spending spree that fills all our holes in just that one off season. There's clearly a bit of delusion going on there.

 

It should really be the opposite. Sign your guys like Fielder, Wilson, and Kemp in the next few years and then you fill your holes from within or else some bargain bin FAs or reclamation projects.

[WeGotWood98]

One thing that's really starting to drive me nuts is that every-time I turn on the radio and they're talking Cubs, they seem to talk as though developing the farm system and acquiring veterans through trades

 

I mega-loathe this kind of talk. The Cubs are not the A's or the Twins, they are a major market and can afford to develop the farm system and imrpove the major league team at the same time. It's really mind-boggling that there are people who call themselves "Cubs fans" who think the Cubs have to do one or the other. Not true, the Cubs can do both and they should do both.

 

The people I talk to who believe this crap don't think we shouldn't spend at all, they think we should wait until the prospects are all up and producing them somehow go on one huge off season spending spree that fills all our holes in just that one off season. There's clearly a bit of delusion going on there.

 

Those are the same people that ignore that the Cubs have developed at least half of the up the middle portion, and have their best prospect depth at the other two. They're looking for something more obvious, maybe. Hell, the Cubs have built their whole bullpen internally once Grabow is gone.

 

Honestly, given the resources this team has this is the perfect time to add a big time outside talent. It's mostly a matter of convincing the big time outside talents of that IMO.

[WeGotWood98]

The people I talk to who believe this crap don't think we shouldn't spend at all, they think we should wait until the prospects are all up and producing them somehow go on one huge off season spending spree that fills all our holes in just that one off season. There's clearly a bit of delusion going on there.

 

This is the same group of people that want to see this perfect, infallible, touted group of young players we can officially classify as worthy, so they ignore that the team is a CF away from producing their whole up the middle group. If you don't like Barney as a 2B, there's two other guys in the minors who might be next year's 2B. Jackson could be next year's CF by June.

 

They'll also ignore that the team has built the whole bullpen, a strength, and will lose the worst and only non-homegrown arm this offseason.

 

This is the perfect time for the Cubs to add an elite outside talent, especially an offensive power bat. The offense this year wasn't all that terrible, but statistcally they lagged behind in power and weren't good enough in AVG/OBP to overcome that. Add a Fielder/Pujols and the Cubs have an easily above average offense. Get some solid pitching and that could lead to something. Either way, it's a great point to build from once all that elite pitching potentially hits the FA market after the 2012 season.

[WeGotWood98]

The people I talk to who believe this crap don't think we shouldn't spend at all, they think we should wait until the prospects are all up and producing them somehow go on one huge off season spending spree that fills all our holes in just that one off season. There's clearly a bit of delusion going on there.

 

This is the same group of people that want to see this perfect, infallible, touted group of young players we can officially classify as worthy, so they ignore that the team is a CF away from producing their whole up the middle group. If you don't like Barney as a 2B, there's two other guys in the minors who might be next year's 2B. Jackson could be next year's CF by June.

 

They'll also ignore that the team has built the whole bullpen, a strength, and will lose the worst and only non-homegrown arm this offseason.

 

This is the perfect time for the Cubs to add an elite outside talent, especially an offensive power bat. The offense this year wasn't all that terrible, but statistcally they lagged behind in power and weren't good enough in AVG/OBP to overcome that. Add a Fielder/Pujols and the Cubs have an easily above average offense. Get some solid pitching and that could lead to something. Either way, it's a great point to build from once all that elite pitching potentially hits the FA market after the 2012 season.

[rocket]

Watching Fielder the past couple of years and then seeing a highlight tonight....why does his size worry anyone in any significant way? The guy's built like a tank rather than the tub of lard his height/weight numbers would make it look.

 

I still don't lean towards him in the Pujols vs. Fielder debate, but at worst he's 1ab to Pujols.

 

look at adam dunn

[WeGotWood98]

Watching Fielder the past couple of years and then seeing a highlight tonight....why does his size worry anyone in any significant way? The guy's built like a tank rather than the tub of lard his height/weight numbers would make it look.

 

I still don't lean towards him in the Pujols vs. Fielder debate, but at worst he's 1ab to Pujols.

 

look at adam dunn

 

What about him? That's a completely different player. Dunn was never someone I'd say was in great shape.

[TruffleShuffle]

but you'd say that prince fielder is in great shape? dude looks like there's something trying to escape from his jersey when he's running.

[WeGotWood98]

but you'd say that prince fielder is in great shape? dude looks like there's something trying to escape from his jersey when he's running.

 

I'm saying Prince Fielder is in great shape for his body type and height/weight numbers, yes. There's plenty of skinny people who are in absolutely disgusting shape, and there are plenty of big guys who are far more solid than they are fat. Fielder is one of those guys at this point in his life. Most of those big guys who are more solid than fat will still ridiculous while running. It's not a serious way to judge someone's conditioning. Neither is my eye, but that's for you to say...Personally, I think he's very into his conditioning and his career, and the vast improvements to his body that he's made since his rookie year speaks for that.

[daske17]

I can't remember where I saw it but Nate Silver did a comparative analysis of Fielder and Mo Vaughn. The graph pretty much showed that he expects a Vaughn like collapse for Prince by 32.

 

Edit: here it is. http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6884431/the-road-map-cubs-resurgence

[Little Slide Rooter]

I can't remember where I saw it but Nate Silver did a comparative analysis of Fielder and Mo Vaughn. The graph pretty much showed that he expects a Vaughn like collapse for Prince by 32.

 

Edit: here it is. http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6884431/the-road-map-cubs-resurgence

 

Even when Mo was in his early 30s, he was OPSng in the 800s and hitting near 30 HR. I'll definitely take that in the final years of a 6-7 year contract.

[TruffleShuffle]

I can't remember where I saw it but Nate Silver did a comparative analysis of Fielder and Mo Vaughn. The graph pretty much showed that he expects a Vaughn like collapse for Prince by 32.

 

Edit: here it is. http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6884431/the-road-map-cubs-resurgence

 

Even when Mo was in his early 30s, he was OPSng in the 800s and hitting near 30 HR. I'll definitely take that in the final years of a 6-7 year contract.

 

in that offensive environment it wasn't all that impressive - 119 ops+ at age 31 and 115 ops+ at age 32. i sure as hell don't want to be paying a lousy defensive 1b $20m a year to put up lyle overbay-type production.