Pujols signs with Angels pg 151

[TruffleShuffle]

i don't want to see what our rotation looks like if we're signing kemp, reyes and fielder.

[Sammy Sofa]

I think Ethier is more realistic than Kemp.

 

I would definitely use prospect we "may" obtain at the deadline plus some other to go after Butler and Ethier, then sign Reyes

 

Reyes 2B

Castro SS

Ethier RF

Butler 1B

Soriano LF

Soto C

Jackson CF

Flaherty / DeWitt 3B

 

With the monetary issues the Dodgers have, they may not be able to afford to re-sign Kemp, though. He's a FA after the 2012 season (I think?) and he'll cost a hefty bundle, so they won't have much time to get their finances in order before he's on the market.

 

Ethier and Kemp are both FA after 2012 and I highly doubt the Dodgers are able to keep either of them. I'd definitely prefer Kemp.

 

And Truffle, I think they'd actually still have enough money between what's coming off the books after this year and the next (Zambrano, Dempster and Byrd) that they'd have enough to sign a good pitcher for the rotation.

[Flames24Rulz]

i don't want to see what our rotation looks like if we're signing kemp, reyes and fielder.

 

Garza, Zambrano, [expletive], [expletive], super [expletive]. In other words, kind of what it's like right now.

[dew1679666265]

i don't want to see what our rotation looks like if we're signing kemp, reyes and fielder.

 

Garza, Zambrano, [expletive], [expletive], super [expletive]. In other words, kind of what it's like right now.

 

By the end of the 2012 season (when Kemp is a FA) Zs contract will be up. We'd still have Wells at that point, though, along with the possibles of Cashner/McNutt/Whitenack.

[Guest]

And Truffle, I think they'd actually still have enough money between what's coming off the books after this year and the next (Zambrano, Dempster and Byrd) that they'd have enough to sign a good pitcher for the rotation.

 

Ack, had a post then lost it. Long story short, the Cubs have about 64 million coming off the payroll the next 2 years . Considering Prince/Kemp/Reyes are looking at 17-18+ per year, that doesn't really leave you the necessary resources to fill out a rotation that would consist of Garza, Wells, and a pocketful of wishes.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Double the payroll, problem solved.

[Little Slide Rooter]

And Truffle, I think they'd actually still have enough money between what's coming off the books after this year and the next (Zambrano, Dempster and Byrd) that they'd have enough to sign a good pitcher for the rotation.

 

Ack, had a post then lost it. Long story short, the Cubs have about 64 million coming off the payroll the next 2 years . Considering Prince/Kemp/Reyes are looking at 17-18+ per year, that doesn't really leave you the necessary resources to fill out a rotation that would consist of Garza, Wells, and a pocketful of wishes.

 

Just out of curiosity, why are so many people ruling out Cashner? Also, McNutt should be ready by 2013 if not 2012.

[Exile on Waveland]

Reyes would seem to be a bad use of resources, in my opinion. Not that's he's not a good player, but I don't see middle infield as the main area of concern at all. I'm relatively satisfied with Castro/grit at SS/2B, and would much rather spend money elsewhere.

[MSG T]

And Truffle, I think they'd actually still have enough money between what's coming off the books after this year and the next (Zambrano, Dempster and Byrd) that they'd have enough to sign a good pitcher for the rotation.

 

Ack, had a post then lost it. Long story short, the Cubs have about 64 million coming off the payroll the next 2 years . Considering Prince/Kemp/Reyes are looking at 17-18+ per year, that doesn't really leave you the necessary resources to fill out a rotation that would consist of Garza, Wells, and a pocketful of wishes.

 

?

 

Am I missing something? Cots shows a payroll of $134 mil this year, $72.6 for 2012 and 28.8 for 2013. Even figuring the number of arbitration eligible guys they have, appears to be six, and the raises they'll get, that's a lot more than $64 mil coming off over the next two years. They could sign Prince and Reyes this year and have plenty of money next year for Kemp and at least one high quality pitcher. And still end up with a lower payroll than they have now.

[jersey cubs fan]

Reyes would seem to be a bad use of resources, in my opinion. Not that's he's not a good player, but I don't see middle infield as the main area of concern at all. I'm relatively satisfied with Castro/grit at SS/2B, and would much rather spend money elsewhere.

 

Barney has been pretty crappy for a good while now. The Cubs are getting a 688 OPS out of 2B this year, that is 8th in the NL. With Utley finally back in Philly it probably won't be long before they drop to 9 or lower. Middle infield may not be the main area of concern, but the Cubs have plenty of areas that can and/or should be addressed. Get your improvement where you can.

[MSG T]

And Truffle, I think they'd actually still have enough money between what's coming off the books after this year and the next (Zambrano, Dempster and Byrd) that they'd have enough to sign a good pitcher for the rotation.

 

Ack, had a post then lost it. Long story short, the Cubs have about 64 million coming off the payroll the next 2 years . Considering Prince/Kemp/Reyes are looking at 17-18+ per year, that doesn't really leave you the necessary resources to fill out a rotation that would consist of Garza, Wells, and a pocketful of wishes.

 

?

 

Am I missing something? Cots shows a payroll of $134 mil this year, $72.6 for 2012 and 28.8 for 2013. Even figuring the number of arbitration eligible guys they have, appears to be six, and the raises they'll get, that's a lot more than $64 mil coming off over the next two years. They could sign Prince and Reyes this year and have plenty of money next year for Kemp and at least one high quality pitcher. And still end up with a lower payroll than they have now.

[Exile on Waveland]

Reyes would seem to be a bad use of resources, in my opinion. Not that's he's not a good player, but I don't see middle infield as the main area of concern at all. I'm relatively satisfied with Castro/grit at SS/2B, and would much rather spend money elsewhere.

 

Barney has been pretty crappy for a good while now. The Cubs are getting a 688 OPS out of 2B this year, that is 8th in the NL. With Utley finally back in Philly it probably won't be long before they drop to 9 or lower. Middle infield may not be the main area of concern, but the Cubs have plenty of areas that can and/or should be addressed. Get your improvement where you can.

 

I said "grit" because I didn't necessarily mean Barney. Other options seem to exist for the Cubs to be at least somewhat average at second base in the coming years (as they are currently). I don't really see those options on the horizon for first or third or the entire outfield or the full rotation. Further, signing Reyes would decrease either his or Castro's offensive value by moving one of them to second. It would also do nothing to improve the power vacuum that exists in the middle of the order. I also think that Reyes is likely to be more overpriced than most/all the other free agent options based on his position, speed, and (so far) career year.

 

If the Cubs are going on a full-on spending spree, sure, sign Reyes. If the Cubs strike out with all other free agent options, sure, sign Reyes. He's an obvious improvement. But I'd much rather sign Pujols/Fielder and then Kemp/Ethier.

[Sammy Sofa]

Yeah, I'm confused by your numbers, TT. I'm not saying your wrong, but I'm not seeing how they only have $64 million freed up between what comes off of the books after this season and the next. Even with raises isn't it still around $80 million?

[CubColtPacer]

And Truffle, I think they'd actually still have enough money between what's coming off the books after this year and the next (Zambrano, Dempster and Byrd) that they'd have enough to sign a good pitcher for the rotation.

 

Ack, had a post then lost it. Long story short, the Cubs have about 64 million coming off the payroll the next 2 years . Considering Prince/Kemp/Reyes are looking at 17-18+ per year, that doesn't really leave you the necessary resources to fill out a rotation that would consist of Garza, Wells, and a pocketful of wishes.

 

?

 

Am I missing something? Cots shows a payroll of $134 mil this year, $72.6 for 2012 and 28.8 for 2013. Even figuring the number of arbitration eligible guys they have, appears to be six, and the raises they'll get, that's a lot more than $64 mil coming off over the next two years. They could sign Prince and Reyes this year and have plenty of money next year for Kemp and at least one high quality pitcher. And still end up with a lower payroll than they have now.

 

If you have 28.8 million in 2013 and you add Kemp/Prince/Reyes at 18 each per year and a high quality pitcher at 13, then you have a payroll of 95 million already. Garza/Soto will probably together be around 20 million by that point so you're already at 115. Wells will probably be 3-5 million by then so 118-120. Castro will probably be another 4-5. So that's 122-125 and that's only 10 players. So they would only have 10 million or so for the other 15 players. Unless the Cubs go to a complete stars/scrubs model, there's no way they can sign that many elite players.

[MSG T]

Yeah, I'm confused by your numbers, TT. I'm not saying your wrong, but I'm not seeing how they only have $64 million freed up between what comes off of the books after this season and the next. Even with raises isn't it still around $80 million?

 

https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ah4PW47PiAi-dDVmNFRzVENYSTF2OXJwVUUyNVJIaFE&output=html

 

Here's COTs numbers for the Cubs.

[jersey cubs fan]

I said "grit" because I didn't necessarily mean Barney. Other options seem to exist for the Cubs to be at least somewhat average at second base in the coming years (as they are currently).

 

Who specifically are you talking about? Barney, DeWitt, Baker, Lemahieu? If you want a good hitting 2B, you actually need a pretty good hitter. It's a productive position nowadays. They Cubs have been plugging holes at 2B for a while now and they have only on occasion filled it with actual production.

[Guest]

Yeah, I'm confused by your numbers, TT. I'm not saying your wrong, but I'm not seeing how they only have $64 million freed up between what comes off of the books after this season and the next. Even with raises isn't it still around $80 million?

 

I did forget about Silva and more importantly Ramirez, so 85 million is more accurate as a raw number. Still, like CCP's example illustrates, that gets eaten up quickly with the raises to other players coming up(and that example assumes we let Marmol and Marshall walk, which is a frightening thought at this point).

[CubColtPacer]

Yeah, I'm confused by your numbers, TT. I'm not saying your wrong, but I'm not seeing how they only have $64 million freed up between what comes off of the books after this season and the next. Even with raises isn't it still around $80 million?

 

I did forget about Silva and more importantly Ramirez, so 85 million is more accurate as a raw number. Still, like CCP's example illustrates, that gets eaten up quickly with the raises to other players coming up(and that example assumes we let Marmol and Marshall walk, which is a frightening thought at this point).

 

Marmol's one of the two players under contract for 2013 so that's not an issue.

[davell]

I know this: According to AZPhil, we're going to head into next season around 108 mill, down from 130 this year. That includes the 5 mill deferred on Pena, the Silva buyout, Aramis' buyout, Shark at 2.4 mill(20% reduction from 3 mill this year) and anything else we're paying out that's not going to be on the team next year, and also includes projected arb raises to everyone who's eligible. Didn't leave us as much room as I had actually thought we'd have, but it doesn't count any minor trades we make that can lose a little more payroll.

 

If you look towards the following season, you're losing Z, Demp, and Byrd, which is basically 40 mill right there. Without looking at anyone else, I can easily see where we're in the 60-70 mill range heading into that offseason.

[Sammy Sofa]

Yeah, I'm confused by your numbers, TT. I'm not saying your wrong, but I'm not seeing how they only have $64 million freed up between what comes off of the books after this season and the next. Even with raises isn't it still around $80 million?

 

I did forget about Silva and more importantly Ramirez, so 85 million is more accurate as a raw number. Still, like CCP's example illustrates, that gets eaten up quickly with the raises to other players coming up(and that example assumes we let Marmol and Marshall walk, which is a frightening thought at this point).

 

Well, then I'd prefer to go the route of singing Prince and whatever this year and then saving room for Kemp after 2012 instead of Reyes, though I have the feeling that the Ricketts will want to make the biggest splash possible after this season, so my Kemp idea is likely just a pipe dream unless the payroll is expanded.

[MSG T]

And Truffle, I think they'd actually still have enough money between what's coming off the books after this year and the next (Zambrano, Dempster and Byrd) that they'd have enough to sign a good pitcher for the rotation.

 

Ack, had a post then lost it. Long story short, the Cubs have about 64 million coming off the payroll the next 2 years . Considering Prince/Kemp/Reyes are looking at 17-18+ per year, that doesn't really leave you the necessary resources to fill out a rotation that would consist of Garza, Wells, and a pocketful of wishes.

 

?

 

Am I missing something? Cots shows a payroll of $134 mil this year, $72.6 for 2012 and 28.8 for 2013. Even figuring the number of arbitration eligible guys they have, appears to be six, and the raises they'll get, that's a lot more than $64 mil coming off over the next two years. They could sign Prince and Reyes this year and have plenty of money next year for Kemp and at least one high quality pitcher. And still end up with a lower payroll than they have now.

 

If you have 28.8 million in 2013 and you add Kemp/Prince/Reyes at 18 each per year and a high quality pitcher at 13, then you have a payroll of 95 million already. Garza/Soto will probably together be around 20 million by that point so you're already at 115. Wells will probably be 3-5 million by then so 118-120. Castro will probably be another 4-5. So that's 122-125 and that's only 10 players. So they would only have 10 million or so for the other 15 players. Unless the Cubs go to a complete stars/scrubs model, there's no way they can sign that many elite players.

 

Money-wise that wouldn't be much different than now. They currently have 13 guys on their roster making a combined $9.5 mil. Mostly bullpen/bench guys. They also have their top six making roughly $77 mil. Aren't they already paying in a stars/scrubs model? Just without as much performance as they could get for their money?

[CubColtPacer]

I said "grit" because I didn't necessarily mean Barney. Other options seem to exist for the Cubs to be at least somewhat average at second base in the coming years (as they are currently).

 

Who specifically are you talking about? Barney, DeWitt, Baker, Lemahieu? If you want a good hitting 2B, you actually need a pretty good hitter. It's a productive position nowadays. They Cubs have been plugging holes at 2B for a while now and they have only on occasion filled it with actual production.

 

and Flaherty and others. The Cubs system is filled with middle infield options. And 2B is still not that productive overall-most teams tend to still fill it with poor hitting players.

[MSG T]

BTW, I'm not saying they have to get Prince/Reyes/Kemp + a pitcher, just that they could. Of those four, I'd take Reyes last, not that I wouldn't take him, just given where their needs will be this winter and next, he'd be below the other three spots in terms of needs.

[Guest]

Yeah, I'm confused by your numbers, TT. I'm not saying your wrong, but I'm not seeing how they only have $64 million freed up between what comes off of the books after this season and the next. Even with raises isn't it still around $80 million?

 

I did forget about Silva and more importantly Ramirez, so 85 million is more accurate as a raw number. Still, like CCP's example illustrates, that gets eaten up quickly with the raises to other players coming up(and that example assumes we let Marmol and Marshall walk, which is a frightening thought at this point).

 

Marmol's one of the two players under contract for 2013 so that's not an issue.

 

I'm apparently not smart enough for this thread today.

[Sammy Sofa]

BTW, I'm not saying they have to get Prince/Reyes/Kemp + a pitcher, just that they could. Of those four, I'd take Reyes last, not that I wouldn't take him, just given where their needs will be this winter and next, he'd be below the other three spots in terms of needs.

 

Well, I don't know. It would be one thing if 3B was dealt with, but with 3B and 1B AND (to a lesser degree because of the position it is and not because of who is currently there) all question marks they can't discount any options at this point. Sign someone like Reyes and move Castro to 2B and then getting Prince for 1B makes the hole at 3B a LOT more tolerable.