Cubs 2011 Roster Discussion

[CubsWin]

With the news of Kerry Wood's imminent signing, the roster for the upcoming season is starting to come into focus. And there are some interesting possibilities.

 

If the Cubs do sign Wood, that increases the chances of Cashner being moved into the rotation. The starting 8 position players are seemingly set with Soto, Pena, DeWitt, Castro, Ramirez, Soriano, Byrd and Colvin/Fukudome.

 

The rotation is totally up in the air. There have been reports of the Yankees being interested in trading for Zambrano, but it's just talk at this point and I don't think it is very likely to happen. That said, there are several possible configurations for the rotation. The Cubs lack a true #1. Z has the ceiling for it, but his likelihood of reaching it isn't great. But let's put Zambrano at the top of the rotation followed by Dempster. After that, it's anybody's guess at this point with Wells, Gorzelanny, Silva, Cashner, Coleman, Samardzija, Jay Jackson and Archer the main possibles. Wells, Gorz and Cash at the back end would be interesting and potentially effective. This is going to be an interesting competition to follow this spring.

 

Marmol, Wood and Marshall could be a formidable top three for the pen with Grabow as the 4th (assuming he's healthy and effective) and much of the rest of the pen being populated by the losers in the rotation race. If the Cubs and Rangers pull the trigger on the Chris Davis & Darren O'Day for Chirinos & (insert minor league pitcher here) deal, O'Day would really make this a deep relieving corps. An interesting dark horse to make the pen out of spring training is Chris Carpenter.

 

The bench will be made up of Fukudome/Colvin and Baker with the last 3 spots up for grabs. Darwin Barney is the favorite to win the utility infielder spot. I'm hoping Castillo or Chirinos wins out over Hill. Chris Davis from Texas would fit in nicely in the final spot. Other possibilities include Marquez Smith, Brandon Guyer and a number of other FAs yet to be signed.

[jersey cubs fan]

Waiting until late December to decide if Cashner will be a starter virtually guarantees he will give you nothing more than 20-something starts of 5 inning ball, which in turn almost necessitates acquiring more relief pitching.

[SouthSideRyan]

Waiting until late December to decide if Cashner will be a starter virtually guarantees he will give you nothing more than 20-something starts of 5 inning ball, which in turn almost necessitates acquiring more relief pitching.

 

Which in turn pushes him to the bullpen for the rest of his career because "he doesn't have the stamina to be a starter."

 

And why the [expletive] is he not pitching somewhere right now?

[jersey cubs fan]

I don't know, why isn't this thread in the other 2011 roster thread?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

And where the hell are my pants?

[CubsWin]

I don't know, why isn't this thread in the other 2011 roster thread?

I looked for it. Couldn't find it. If someone can, please combine them.

[CubsWin]

Waiting until late December to decide if Cashner will be a starter virtually guarantees he will give you nothing more than 20-something starts of 5 inning ball, which in turn almost necessitates acquiring more relief pitching.

 

Which in turn pushes him to the bullpen for the rest of his career because "he doesn't have the stamina to be a starter."

 

And why the [expletive] is he not pitching somewhere right now?

I'm sure the reason is that the Cubs suck and their management are idiots. They would have to be to not understand that if you only have "20-something starts of 5 inning ball" then the reason must be that you don't have the stamina. I don't think Hendry could ascertain any other possible reasons or understand the increased value of Cashner as a starter. He's just that dumb.

[CubsWin]

Waiting until late December to decide if Cashner will be a starter virtually guarantees he will give you nothing more than 20-something starts of 5 inning ball, which in turn almost necessitates acquiring more relief pitching.

Why is that? He is capable of pitching two innings right now. That is what every pitcher starts off with in spring training and they build from there. So it's not a matter of being stretched out in time. "Waiting until late December" doesn't impact his ability to start at all. What will limit him is the fact that he only pitched 111 innings last season. To take him much beyond 150 this season would be dangerous. That would be 30 starts of 5 innings each or 25 starts of 6 innings each. If Cashner averaged 6 innings per start this season and starts 25 times, I'd be thrilled.

[jersey cubs fan]

Waiting until late December to decide if Cashner will be a starter virtually guarantees he will give you nothing more than 20-something starts of 5 inning ball, which in turn almost necessitates acquiring more relief pitching.

Why is that? He is capable of pitching two innings right now. That is what every pitcher starts off with in spring training and they build from there. So it's not a matter of being stretched out in time. "Waiting until late December" doesn't impact his ability to start at all. What will limit him is the fact that he only pitched 111 innings last season. To take him much beyond 150 this season would be dangerous. That would be 30 starts of 5 innings each or 25 starts of 6 innings each. If Cashner averaged 6 innings per start this season and starts 25 times, I'd be thrilled.

 

It is a matter of being stretched out in time. He made 9 starts last year. He had 24 the year before and he has always struggled to go past 5 innings in the first place.

[NCCubFan]

I don't know, why isn't this thread in the other 2011 roster thread?

I looked for it. Couldn't find it. If someone can, please combine them.

He may have been thinking instead of the starting lineup thread, which to me isn't the same as a roster thread.

[ScrubMD]

An interesting dark horse to make the pen out of spring training is Chris Carpenter.

 

 

The Cubs seem to have a lot of borderline pitching prospects that, since we don't really have room for them in the rotation, could turn out to be good bullpen arms. I don't really see Carpenter, Jackson, Rusin, Raley, etc. ever being regular SP for us but I can easily see getting a couple very good relievers out of the bunch. And I know this is really really premature, but I'm already excited for when Kurcz is ready to take over as our closer. He just toyed with those idiot batters he faced in Boise.

[Schwarber Fan]

I want Carpenter in the rotation just so we can have a Chris Carpenter vs. Chris Carpenter matchup.

[rocket]

ok nccubfan

[Sammy Sofa]

Hang tight, he's probably got an amazing Rocky Cherry/Felix Pie joke to dazzle us with.

[CubsWin]

Waiting until late December to decide if Cashner will be a starter virtually guarantees he will give you nothing more than 20-something starts of 5 inning ball, which in turn almost necessitates acquiring more relief pitching.

Why is that? He is capable of pitching two innings right now. That is what every pitcher starts off with in spring training and they build from there. So it's not a matter of being stretched out in time. "Waiting until late December" doesn't impact his ability to start at all. What will limit him is the fact that he only pitched 111 innings last season. To take him much beyond 150 this season would be dangerous. That would be 30 starts of 5 innings each or 25 starts of 6 innings each. If Cashner averaged 6 innings per start this season and starts 25 times, I'd be thrilled.

 

It is a matter of being stretched out in time. He made 9 starts last year. He had 24 the year before and he has always struggled to go past 5 innings in the first place.

Spring training isn't enough time to stretch out a pitcher so that he can throw 90 pitches? I watch guys do it every year. Why would it be different for Cashner?

[CubsWin]

Waiting until late December to decide if Cashner will be a starter virtually guarantees he will give you nothing more than 20-something starts of 5 inning ball, which in turn almost necessitates acquiring more relief pitching.

Why is that? He is capable of pitching two innings right now. That is what every pitcher starts off with in spring training and they build from there. So it's not a matter of being stretched out in time. "Waiting until late December" doesn't impact his ability to start at all. What will limit him is the fact that he only pitched 111 innings last season. To take him much beyond 150 this season would be dangerous. That would be 30 starts of 5 innings each or 25 starts of 6 innings each. If Cashner averaged 6 innings per start this season and starts 25 times, I'd be thrilled.

 

It is a matter of being stretched out in time. He made 9 starts last year. He had 24 the year before and he has always struggled to go past 5 innings in the first place.

Spring training isn't enough time to stretch out a pitcher so that he can throw 90 pitches? I watch guys do it every year. Why would it be different for Cashner?

Cashner has not "always struggled to go past 5 innings". In his first full season ('09), he was on a strict pitch count so he got this reputation for not being able to go more than 5. But last season, as you pointed out, he made 9 starts before being converted into a reliever. In those 9 starts, he pitched less than 5 innings once (4 1/3) and that was his first of the season. After that first start he went 6, 7, 7, 6, 5.2 in AA and 6, 6 and 7 in AAA.

[squally1313]

Have we heard any updates on Angel Guzman? He was pretty nasty in 09, and if he can come back healthy, our bullpen could get pretty crowded in a hurry. That would give us Marmol, Marshall, Wood, Grabow, and Guzman as 5 (hopefully) reliable bullpen arms. I don't think even the Cubs management is dumb enough to use Cash or one of our other pitching prospects in a mop up role, especially when we already have Silva for that.

[CubsWin]

Have we heard any updates on Angel Guzman? He was pretty nasty in 09, and if he can come back healthy, our bullpen could get pretty crowded in a hurry. That would give us Marmol, Marshall, Wood, Grabow, and Guzman as 5 (hopefully) reliable bullpen arms. I don't think even the Cubs management is dumb enough to use Cash or one of our other pitching prospects in a mop up role, especially when we already have Silva for that.

I don't know how he's throwing (I don't think he's pitching in any Winter leagues this year), but he is a non-roster invitee to spring training.

 

Link

[wvcbxl]

(I don't think he's pitching in any Winter leagues this year)

 

He's not on any of the Venezuelan rosters, where you would expect him to play.

[Backtobanks]

Have we heard any updates on Angel Guzman? He was pretty nasty in 09, and if he can come back healthy, our bullpen could get pretty crowded in a hurry. That would give us Marmol, Marshall, Wood, Grabow, and Guzman as 5 (hopefully) reliable bullpen arms. I don't think even the Cubs management is dumb enough to use Cash or one of our other pitching prospects in a mop up role, especially when we already have Silva for that.

I don't know how he's throwing (I don't think he's pitching in any Winter leagues this year), but he is a non-roster invitee to spring training.

 

Link

 

If Guzman can come back anywhere near 09 form, we might have one of the best bullpens in baseball.

[mul21]

Spring training isn't enough time to stretch out a pitcher so that he can throw 90 pitches? I watch guys do it every year. Why would it be different for Cashner?

 

I think it's less an issue of him getting stretched out to be able to start than it is an issue of the number of IP he's had in any given year. He's probably not going to be able to go more than 150-160 inning this year as a starter just because he's been so limited in his total IP in previous years. That's the big reason everybody was so pissed he got moved to the pen last year, it really stunted his potential development to be used as a starter this year without spending a bunch more time in the minors.

[CubsWin]

Spring training isn't enough time to stretch out a pitcher so that he can throw 90 pitches? I watch guys do it every year. Why would it be different for Cashner?

 

I think it's less an issue of him getting stretched out to be able to start than it is an issue of the number of IP he's had in any given year. He's probably not going to be able to go more than 150-160 inning this year as a starter just because he's been so limited in his total IP in previous years. That's the big reason everybody was so pissed he got moved to the pen last year, it really stunted his potential development to be used as a starter this year without spending a bunch more time in the minors.

I know. I was pissed too. But goony is making the argument that because he's not pitching winter ball somewhere that it will hurt his ability to be ready to be a starter somehow and I'm asking him how.

 

II'm aware of his innings ceiling. I brought it up earlier on this page. If he can go 150 innings, that would be 25 starts of 6 innings each. I'd take that so long as he's productive and pitching like he did in his 9 starts last season.

[CubsWin]

Have we heard any updates on Angel Guzman? He was pretty nasty in 09, and if he can come back healthy, our bullpen could get pretty crowded in a hurry. That would give us Marmol, Marshall, Wood, Grabow, and Guzman as 5 (hopefully) reliable bullpen arms. I don't think even the Cubs management is dumb enough to use Cash or one of our other pitching prospects in a mop up role, especially when we already have Silva for that.

I don't know how he's throwing (I don't think he's pitching in any Winter leagues this year), but he is a non-roster invitee to spring training.

 

Link

 

If Guzman can come back anywhere near 09 form, we might have one of the best bullpens in baseball.

I'm not sure exactly how big that "if" is, but I don't think it's small. Love to be wrong, though...

[Little Slide Rooter]

Have we heard any updates on Angel Guzman? He was pretty nasty in 09, and if he can come back healthy, our bullpen could get pretty crowded in a hurry. That would give us Marmol, Marshall, Wood, Grabow, and Guzman as 5 (hopefully) reliable bullpen arms. I don't think even the Cubs management is dumb enough to use Cash or one of our other pitching prospects in a mop up role, especially when we already have Silva for that.

I don't know how he's throwing (I don't think he's pitching in any Winter leagues this year), but he is a non-roster invitee to spring training.

 

Link

 

If Guzman can come back anywhere near 09 form, we might have one of the best bullpens in baseball.

I'm not sure exactly how big that "if" is, but I don't think it's small. Love to be wrong, though...

 

Its not like Woods a sure thing either.

[CubsWin]

Have we heard any updates on Angel Guzman? He was pretty nasty in 09, and if he can come back healthy, our bullpen could get pretty crowded in a hurry. That would give us Marmol, Marshall, Wood, Grabow, and Guzman as 5 (hopefully) reliable bullpen arms. I don't think even the Cubs management is dumb enough to use Cash or one of our other pitching prospects in a mop up role, especially when we already have Silva for that.

I don't know how he's throwing (I don't think he's pitching in any Winter leagues this year), but he is a non-roster invitee to spring training.

 

Link

 

If Guzman can come back anywhere near 09 form, we might have one of the best bullpens in baseball.

I'm not sure exactly how big that "if" is, but I don't think it's small. Love to be wrong, though...

 

Its not like Woods a sure thing either.

True. Sad, but true.