Rothschild leaving to be Yankees Pitching Coach

[Sammy Sofa]

All I remember is hating the Marquis signing, hating the money Soriano was getting but loving that the Cubs had him and going "zah?!?!?" over the DeRosa signing.

[jersey cubs fan]

The whole point of this is that Rothschild does deserve some credit for turning Lilly into the pitcher he is today.

 

No he doesn't. He didn't do anything as a Cub that he didn't do before being a Cub. I undervalued his ability to perform in the AL East.

[jersey cubs fan]

All I remember is hating the Marquis signing, hating the money Soriano was getting but loving that the Cubs had him and going "zah?!?!?" over the DeRosa signing.

 

I was completely conflicted on the Soriano contract. I hated the deal as a whole but was happy they at least had a quality bat in the OF. It was something like being resigned to the fact that Hendry's inability to get hitters before 2007 meant we pretty much had to accept Soriano if we wanted to see them do anything the next couple years.

[Soul]

All I remember is hating the Marquis signing, hating the money Soriano was getting but loving that the Cubs had him and going "zah?!?!?" over the DeRosa signing.

 

I was completely conflicted on the Soriano contract. I hated the deal as a whole but was happy they at least had a quality bat in the OF. It was something like being resigned to the fact that Hendry's inability to get hitters before 2007 meant we pretty much had to accept Soriano if we wanted to see them do anything the next couple years.

 

I remember the same. It's just that now we're in Sori contract hell -- the hell we all knew was coming and here it is. Nothing to do now but hope his dropoff is not steep, and ride out the years until he finally goes.

[Southpaw191679666239]

So what happened to the announcement today?

[mcgoobs]

So pitching coaches aren't that important because they don't automatically have final say on when a pitcher leaves the game, even if the manager can give them that ability? There's plenty of other responsibilities that make a pitching coach important over when to take a pitcher out.

 

They aren't that important for a variety of reasons. The most obvious one is because pitching talent is what determines how well a pitcher pitches. Coaches are important at lower levels, but at the higher levels they are there for babysitting purposes more than anything. Pitchers generally come up and pitch to their ability and then slowly decline as their arms age. Your team's quality of pitching will be determined by the talent of the pitchers. Not the pitching coach.

 

I agree with you directionally, and believe there isn't enough evidence to point to any value from most pitching coaches. But there are enough examples of pitchers turning around their performance once under the watch of coaches like Duncan or Rotschild that the talented ones provide some value. You can even look at Kerry's performance before and after joining the Yankees to see a recent example.

[jersey cubs fan]

I agree with you directionally, and believe there isn't enough evidence to point to any value from most pitching coaches. But there are enough examples of pitchers turning around their performance once under the watch of coaches like Duncan or Rotschild that the talented ones provide some value. You can even look at Kerry's performance before and after joining the Yankees to see a recent example.

 

I think Duncan has a history of getting the most out of second rate talents. Rothschild does not. He's had an amazing array of pitching talent to work with as Cubs pitching coach, as the Cubs have poured a ton of resources into pitching talents for nearly two decades now. I don't think they've come close to outperforming their ability.

[UMFan83]

I hated the Soriano signing and thought we could do better than someone with a .836 career OPS for our LF vacancy. And then factoring in that he was getting $17 million a year for that career .836 OPS and I was pretty upset.

[dew1679666265]

I think Duncan has a history of getting the most out of second rate talents. Rothschild does not. He's had an amazing array of pitching talent to work with as Cubs pitching coach, as the Cubs have poured a ton of resources into pitching talents for nearly two decades now. I don't think they've come close to outperforming their ability.

 

Randy Wells, Carlos Silva, Ted Lilly and Ryan Dempster are an amazing array of talent? Because all of them pitched better after getting under Rothschild's tutelage than before.

[KingCubsFan]

I think Duncan has a history of getting the most out of second rate talents. Rothschild does not. He's had an amazing array of pitching talent to work with as Cubs pitching coach, as the Cubs have poured a ton of resources into pitching talents for nearly two decades now. I don't think they've come close to outperforming their ability.

 

Randy Wells, Carlos Silva, Ted Lilly and Ryan Dempster are an amazing array of talent? Because all of them pitched better after getting under Rothschild's tutelage than before.

Not to mention guys like Joe Borowski, Matt Clement, Glendon Rusch and Jerome Williams

[Backtobanks]

There's a reason certain coaches (pitching and hitting) have the reputation they do, that's why guys like Rothschild, Duncan, Jaramillo, etc. are so respected. They actually get the most from a player's natural ability.

[jersey cubs fan]

I think Duncan has a history of getting the most out of second rate talents. Rothschild does not. He's had an amazing array of pitching talent to work with as Cubs pitching coach, as the Cubs have poured a ton of resources into pitching talents for nearly two decades now. I don't think they've come close to outperforming their ability.

 

Randy Wells, Carlos Silva, Ted Lilly and Ryan Dempster are an amazing array of talent? Because all of them pitched better after getting under Rothschild's tutelage than before.

 

Ted Lilly was the same pitcher before and after. Dempster was a huge talent before he became a Cub. Carlos Silva pitched well in the past, and this season did so for a brief period of time. Randy Wells has nothing to comp up against.

[jersey cubs fan]

There's a reason certain coaches (pitching and hitting) have the reputation they do, that's why guys like Rothschild, Duncan, Jaramillo, etc. are so respected. They actually get the most from a player's natural ability.

 

Yes, and that reason is that anybody who sticks around long enough in baseball gets a reputation for being good at what he does.

[NCCubFan]

Dempster was a huge talent before he became a Cub.

He was FAR from a "huge talent" before joining the Cubs.

[CubColtPacer]

I think Duncan has a history of getting the most out of second rate talents. Rothschild does not. He's had an amazing array of pitching talent to work with as Cubs pitching coach, as the Cubs have poured a ton of resources into pitching talents for nearly two decades now. I don't think they've come close to outperforming their ability.

 

Randy Wells, Carlos Silva, Ted Lilly and Ryan Dempster are an amazing array of talent? Because all of them pitched better after getting under Rothschild's tutelage than before.

 

Ted Lilly was the same pitcher before and after. Dempster was a huge talent before he became a Cub. Carlos Silva pitched well in the past, and this season did so for a brief period of time. Randy Wells has nothing to comp up against.

 

It should be said that those same sorts of arguments could be made for most or maybe all of the successful pitchers under Duncan.

[Backtobanks]

There's a reason certain coaches (pitching and hitting) have the reputation they do, that's why guys like Rothschild, Duncan, Jaramillo, etc. are so respected. They actually get the most from a player's natural ability.

 

Yes, and that reason is that anybody who sticks around long enough in baseball gets a reputation for being good at what he does.

 

I guess you're going to believe what you want to believe, but when I see coaches that are respected by players and owners throughout the majors, I tend to believe they've had an impact in helping a player maximize their natural ability.

[dew1679666265]

Ted Lilly was the same pitcher before and after. Dempster was a huge talent before he became a Cub. Carlos Silva pitched well in the past, and this season did so for a brief period of time. Randy Wells has nothing to comp up against.

 

Lilly as a Blue Jay: 4.52/1.411

Lilly as a Cub: 3.70/1.144

Lilly as a Yankee: 4.65/1.320

His BB/9 dropped by about 2 per 9 when he came to the Cubs. There's simply no support for him being the same pitcher pre-Cub and during his Cub tenure.

 

Dempster as a Marlin: 4.64/1.326

Dempster as a Cub: 3.67/1.321

In 2 years with the Reds, his numbers were even worse than with the Marlins. As a Cub, his H/9, BB/9 and K/9 were all a point better as a Cub than as a Marlin. His HR/9 has also been slightly better (.8 as a Cub to 1.1 as a Marlin).

 

On Silva, he has had similar seasons in the past, but he'd been horrid the past two years in a better pitcher's park and most of his peripherals are better than they've been in half a decade or more. He's a different pitcher now, that's pretty clear.

 

On Wells, he had 359 mediocre minor league seasons. He comes under Rothschild's tutelage and he's all of a sudden a very solid pitcher for the same length of time. Maybe he just figured it out all on his own, but that seems pretty coincidental that he'd blossom randomly like that and it not have anything at all to do with Rothschild.

[Exile on Waveland]

I think Duncan has a history of getting the most out of second rate talents. Rothschild does not. He's had an amazing array of pitching talent to work with as Cubs pitching coach, as the Cubs have poured a ton of resources into pitching talents for nearly two decades now. I don't think they've come close to outperforming their ability.

 

Randy Wells, Carlos Silva, Ted Lilly and Ryan Dempster are an amazing array of talent? Because all of them pitched better after getting under Rothschild's tutelage than before.

Not to mention guys like Joe Borowski, Matt Clement, Glendon Rusch and Jerome Williams

 

Matt Clement was a really talented guy. Talent/stuff was never the problem.

[d_money]

Anyone think that with the Yankees hiring Rothschild that a trade of Zambrano to the Yanks becomes a little easier? Greases the skids? More possible now than ever.

 

no. nor should we seek to trade zambrano.

 

Looks to be more than conjecture.