Do you consider the Cubs-Cardinals rivalry

[Formerly Snayke]

Which bear is best?

 

Bear or beer?

 

Anyway, I have a funny observation.

[Guest]

Which bear is best?

Nothing that comes from St. Louis or Milwaukee is any good.

[cardslesson101]

Which bear is best?

Nothing that comes from St. Louis or Milwaukee is any good.

 

 

:-)) What about the South Side of Chicago?

[Guest]

Which bear is best?

Nothing that comes from St. Louis or Milwaukee is any good.

 

 

:-)) What about the South Side of Chicago?

well...I was born there. So I'd have to say at least some things. :D

[CubbieBum]

Brewers = a little brother that I toy with and sort of have a rivalry

 

Cardinals = the white to my black, the oil to my water ... etc.

[DanzaSlap]

As a Cardinal fan, I could give a [expletive] about the Mets. Yeah, it was awesome to beat them in '06, but only because it was the playoffs and everybody expected us to lose. And the "pond scum" teams were when I was baby, so [expletive] Doc Gooden or whoever was even on those teams doing all blow. Couldn't care less.

 

It is literally insane to say the Cards-Mets rivalry (or Cards-Royals) even approaches the intensity of Cards-Cubs. It's not even close.

[cardslesson101]

As a Cardinal fan, I could give a [expletive] about the Mets. Yeah, it was awesome to beat them in '06, but only because it was the playoffs and everybody expected us to lose. And the "pond scum" teams were when I was baby, so [expletive] Doc Gooden or whoever was even on those teams doing all blow. Couldn't care less.

 

It is literally insane to say the Cards-Mets rivalry (or Cards-Royals) even approaches the intensity of Cards-Cubs. It's not even close.

 

 

I'm a Cards fan too. The supposed Cards-Royals rivalry is because they are in the same state, it doesn't mean they are rivals. The fans in KC are the ones making a big deal out of it.

[Ricky Vaughn]

As a Cardinal fan, I could give a [expletive] about the Mets. Yeah, it was awesome to beat them in '06, but only because it was the playoffs and everybody expected us to lose. And the "pond scum" teams were when I was baby, so [expletive] Doc Gooden or whoever was even on those teams doing all blow. Couldn't care less.

 

It is literally insane to say the Cards-Mets rivalry (or Cards-Royals) even approaches the intensity of Cards-Cubs. It's not even close.

 

 

I'm a Cards fan too. The supposed Cards-Royals rivalry is because they are in the same state, it doesn't mean they are rivals. The fans in KC are the ones making a big deal out of it.

 

Kansas city, though not a traditional rival, and definitely not on par with the Cubs, is definitely not one-sided, and it's not just about the same state. There's also the World Series history, and the Royals' one shining moment was also something that had played a part in what was one of the longest stretches of no titles for the Cardinals. Obviously that changed in 2006. Add in the fact that there was one specific play that both sides could argue about (even though it didn't determine the series), and there was definitely a back and forth between the fan bases. If this was all one-sided, then you wouldn't have Cardinals fans driving across the state in droves for the series every year.

 

The Mets are not a rival to the Cardinals. In the 80s, when they were in the same division, and were consitently two of the better teams, and often fighting it out at the end, yes, they were rivals. But, since realignment, the Cardinals and Mets have played exactly 12 meaningful games in the last 20 seasons. The Cardinals and Cubs will play 15 meaningful games this season.

 

New York teams, in general, are easy for everyone outside of New York to hate. That doesn't make them a rival. Furthermore, though I have met a Mets fan who once told me in a midtown bar "Yadier Molina broke my heart," I have never met one who talked about the "rivalry" between the two clubs.

 

The claim that the Mets are a bigger rival because they've met in big games is preposterous. I'm guessing you're the same type of fan who thought that the Astros had overtaken the Cubs as the Cardinals' biggest rival in 04-05, too.

 

But that's actually missing the point. At that point, Cards fans only cared about the Astros because they were good. Likewise, in 2006, they only cared about the Mets because they were directly in the way. These, essentially, were "conditional rivalries," and conditional rivalries aren't really rivals. Once the Astros went back to sucking, the games lost the luster.

 

Cards-Cubs games are always big, even if one team sucks, or both do. They could be fighting it out for 5th place in the division, and it'd still be huge to the fans.

 

Anyway, as to the initial question, my guess would be that Cubs fans see the Brewers the way the Cardinals fans saw the Astros, and to some extent see the Brewers:

 

The games are big because they're divisional, and because the other team is currently talented. To some extent, fans might get overly excited because these teams are threatening the "established" powers in the division, and because they have a newly developed, bandwagon hopping fan base. But, they aren't really a rival.

[Tracer Bullet]

This is a pretty ridiculous topic.

[Maclowery]

This is a pretty ridiculous topic.

 

Honestly I'm kind of surprised that lesson hasn't mentioned Cardstalk yet.

 

Dear Lesson, Cubs/Cards will continue to be the biggest rivalry thirty miles west of the Atlantic. I'm not sure why you would possibly think it wouldnt be. Are you trying to polarize yourself against yet another message board community?

 

Bears, beets, Battlestar Galactica.

[champaignchris]

The only rivalries in baseball even worth mentioning are Cubs-Cardinals, Yankees-Red Sox, and Giants-Dodgers.

 

Braves-Mets might be a distant, distant fourth.

[UMFan83]

LOL, unrelated note but I just went to Cardstalk to see what they are discussing (always fun) and some of their notable topics include:

 

(paraphrased)

-When will the Cards clinch the NL Central

-OMG Buster Onley picks someone other than the Rockies to win the NL!

-OMG Buster Onley doesn't include the Cardinals in their top 5 lineups in baseball

[Sammy Sofa]

The only rivalries in baseball even worth mentioning are Cubs-Cardinals, Yankees-Red Sox, and Giants-Dodgers.

 

Braves-Mets might be a distant, distant fourth.

 

Since inter-league play began I'd definitely include Cubs-White Sox and Yankees-Mets to that list. I'd also include Mets-Phillies.

[mjohnson71]

Nobody has mentioned this yet, but lets not forget that the Brewers didn't join the National League until 1998. So that means the Cubs/Brewers "rivalry" is 11 seasons old while the Cubs/Cards has been around for over a century.

 

Plus Miller Park sucks: there's no reason for indoor baseball up there. And even with the roof open it still feels like an indoor game. At least with the old/new Busch stadiums your outside watching baseball being played on God's green grass. Any time I've been to Milwaukee for a Cubs/Brewers game it's basically a Cubs home game. And when the Brewers come to Wrigley field it's hardly noticeable. When the Cardinals come to Chicago the park is overrun with rednecks wearing red.

 

Like many others I view the Brewers as just another team in our division and not a hated rival like the Cardinals. IMHO I hate the Astros more than the Brewers.

 

EDIT: how many times have the Cubs/Brewers been a ESPN Sunday night game? I can't remember one. But it seems like every Cubs/Cards Sunday game ends up on ESPN.

[UMFan83]

EDIT: how many times have the Cubs/Brewers been a ESPN Sunday night game? I can't remember one. But it seems like every Cubs/Cards Sunday game ends up on ESPN.

 

The first week of the season last year was on Sunday Night baseball. It was the game in Milwaukee where Reed Johnson robbed Prince Fielder of a grand slam in a game the Cubs would win.

[wtrerushville]

As a Cardinal fan, I could give a [expletive] about the Mets. Yeah, it was awesome to beat them in '06, but only because it was the playoffs and everybody expected us to lose. And the "pond scum" teams were when I was baby, so [expletive] Doc Gooden or whoever was even on those teams doing all blow. Couldn't care less.

 

It is literally insane to say the Cards-Mets rivalry (or Cards-Royals) even approaches the intensity of Cards-Cubs. It's not even close.

 

 

I'm a Cards fan too. The supposed Cards-Royals rivalry is because they are in the same state, it doesn't mean they are rivals. The fans in KC are the ones making a big deal out of it.

 

Kansas city, though not a traditional rival, and definitely not on par with the Cubs, is definitely not one-sided, and it's not just about the same state. There's also the World Series history, and the Royals' one shining moment was also something that had played a part in what was one of the longest stretches of no titles for the Cardinals. Obviously that changed in 2006. Add in the fact that there was one specific play that both sides could argue about (even though it didn't determine the series), and there was definitely a back and forth between the fan bases. If this was all one-sided, then you wouldn't have Cardinals fans driving across the state in droves for the series every year..

 

I disagree. It may not be ALL one sided but it is certainly HEAVILY one sided. The Royals have had ONE season in the last 15 over .500 Hard to have a rivalry when the best zinger a Royal fan can throw happened 25 years ago

 

As to the "droves" of fans driving across the state, how many of those fans do you suppose live west of St Louis? A good number I would suppose. Add in the fact that since the Royals suck, it is usually easy to score some GOOD seats Heck, its not uncommon to see a good sized contingent of Cards fans in MIL when the Cards play there.

 

NO, I would definitely say it is more along the lines of the MIL fans thinking they have a rivalry with the Cubs and not that my circle of friends is a representative sample but not one of them considers the Royals a rival.

[cardslesson101]

EDIT: how many times have the Cubs/Brewers been a ESPN Sunday night game? I can't remember one. But it seems like every Cubs/Cards Sunday game ends up on ESPN.

 

The first week of the season last year was on Sunday Night baseball. It was the game in Milwaukee where Reed Johnson robbed Prince Fielder of a grand slam in a game the Cubs would win.

 

In 2008, on opening day on Monday, in Wrigley, vs Sheets.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

http://fewtech.net/posters/images/sticky%20this%20thread.jpg

[Formerly Snayke]

When the Cardinals come to Chicago the park is overrun with rednecks wearing red.

 

This sounds dubious. Any Cardinals fans I've ran into in St. Louis were not rednecks. Alcoholics, maybe, but you have to go west until you find redneck Cardinals fans. And I highly doubt those people have the money to just jet off to Wrigley. They have to hold up signs calling people "morans."

[woodchip2153]

When the Cardinals come to Chicago the park is overrun with rednecks wearing red.

 

This sounds dubious. Any Cardinals fans I've ran into in St. Louis were not rednecks. Alcoholics, maybe, but you have to go west until you find redneck Cardinals fans. And I highly doubt those people have the money to just jet off to Wrigley. They have to hold up signs calling people "morans."

 

have you never been to south county?

[jersey cubs fan]

The only time I've been in STL it was in the airport waiting for a connection and the Cubs were playing the cards in Chicago. Three guys were in the bar with me watching and they were all rednecks.

[cardslesson101]

When the Cardinals come to Chicago the park is overrun with rednecks wearing red.

 

This sounds dubious. Any Cardinals fans I've ran into in St. Louis were not rednecks. Alcoholics, maybe, but you have to go west until you find redneck Cardinals fans. And I highly doubt those people have the money to just jet off to Wrigley. They have to hold up signs calling people "morans."

 

have you never been to south county?

 

Not South County, Washington County along with Jefferson County.

[Ricky Vaughn]

I disagree. It may not be ALL one sided but it is certainly HEAVILY one sided. The Royals have had ONE season in the last 15 over .500 Hard to have a rivalry when the best zinger a Royal fan can throw happened 25 years ago

 

Yeah, but "zingers" are hardly the basis of a rivalry, so that's not really relevant. And even though it was a long time ago, remember, until october 2006, the Royals could still claim A) having a more recent World Championship, and B) Having directly helped to a stretch of the Cardinals' futility. Sure, the Royals hadn't won in a while, but then, they'd still won more recently than the Cardinals.

 

As to the "droves" of fans driving across the state, how many of those fans do you suppose live west of St Louis? A good number I would suppose.

 

Yes, when one fan base takes over another fan base's stadium, or even gets it close to 50/50, it's likely that those fans are going to come from more than just the metropolitan area. But, again, that's not really relevant. We aren't talking about St. Louis (the city) vs. Kansas City (the city), we're talking about the team, and their fanbases. The fact is that many Cardinals fans, regardless of their geographical location, still head to Kansas City for that series. That's a reflection of how they view the rivalry.

 

NO, I would definitely say it is more along the lines of the MIL fans thinking they have a rivalry with the Cubs and not that my circle of friends is a representative sample but not one of them considers the Royals a rival

 

Faie enough, but I have a group of friends that have been making the trip for the past 8 years, and it's grown every year. This year, our group alone is going to be 24 people. Not that we're indicative either, and most likely the truth lies somewhere in the middle (which was my initial point), but for the poster to say that the rivalry was only about geography, is simply wrong.

[UMFan83]

EDIT: how many times have the Cubs/Brewers been a ESPN Sunday night game? I can't remember one. But it seems like every Cubs/Cards Sunday game ends up on ESPN.

 

The first week of the season last year was on Sunday Night baseball. It was the game in Milwaukee where Reed Johnson robbed Prince Fielder of a grand slam in a game the Cubs would win.

 

In 2008, on opening day on Monday, in Wrigley, vs Sheets.

 

Yeah he said Sunday night though, which is more significant in prestige because it's the only game actually going on at the time and its their designated "game of the week"

[MWV]

I can't believe this debate is approaching three pages of posts.