Can Silva Turn Things Around and Be Useful?

[biittner77]

What constitutes a "regular contender"? Does this mean making the playoffs or being in the hunt for most of the season? How you answer that question determines how you'd have to evaluate the Hendry regime.

 

The other problem is finding the beginning date for the Hendry regime. He became GM in 2002 but he was a big part of the decision making process in 2001. So if you want to pin the blame for 2002 on him then you also have to give him some credit for 2001.

 

So let's say the Hendry era starts in 2001 and "regular contender" means staying in the playoff race or making the playoffs. By those standards, Hendry has led the Cubs to 3 division titles and 3 contending seasons. The other 3 seasons were unmitigated disasters.

 

By these standards, which I think are very kind to Hendry, still leave a sense of mediocrity and underachievement given the resources and payroll.

[dew1679666265]

I guess I prefer to judge his performance on the sum of the parts as it should be. Over the better part of a decade, somebody should be able to make a few good or great choices. The problem is, he hasn't made nearly enough and made way too many bad ones.

 

Again, I'm not evaluating Hendry's overall job performance at all. I'm simply discussing a few of the great trades he's made. It's not an evaluation in any way, shape, or form. Outshined One asked what awesome trades Hendry has made other than the ones he mentioned, I brought up a pretty nice trade. It's not an evaluation nor a statement on his overall job performance.

And I still find it silly. It reminds me of women that say "I know my boyfriend beats the [expletive] out of me but sometimes he buys me nice stuff".

 

Or it's like talking about the good plays of an overall bad player. People on the board have reminisced about Glendon Rusch's good year, etc. and nobody has been appalled by that idea. It's a discussion about a baseball topic. I thought that's what this board was here for.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

It is, I just find it silly.

[dew1679666265]

It is, I just find it silly.

 

Ok, I guess. I find it rather silly to be bothered about a discussion about trades the Cubs have made.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I'm not bothered at all, and that's not really how the tangent started.

[dew1679666265]

I'm not bothered at all, and that's not really how the tangent started.

 

Bothere enough to make a point that it's silly to talk about good trades the Cubs have made during the Hendry era. That's what me, Outshined and CCP were discussing when goony (and then you) jumped in to the discussion.

[Backtobanks]

Now that a few of you want to use my name in your posts, you should at least accurately point out my position. Hendry has some positives (more good trades than bad) and some negatives (giving too much money/years to FA). He deserves blame for a team that has many veterans with unmovable contracts, but he deserves some credit for building teams over the years that won the division or were competitive. An important positive is that he hired Rothschild and Jaramillo as coaches. He has played an important part in rebuilding the farm system. He has been unlucky in having a high number of injured stars (Prior, Wood, Aram, DLee, etc.) over the years. If you want to use only wins and losses as a tool to grade him then he probably should be fired, but I think Ricketts might go a little deeper than W/L. My point has always been that it's real easy for all of us "pretend GMs" to criticize every move he makes (or doesn't make) without having all of the necessary information. I think he's respected by many people in baseball and if he's fired, he will have a job very soon afterward.

 

I guess I'm just not sure why you need to "go deeper" than W/L. Isn't that the bottom line? His job is to put together teams that win. His record is barely over .500. End of story, IMO. Every team has injuries. One can even excuse one bad year because of injuries, but it's been 7-8 years now. In that time, there's really only been one team that was very good (2008). In fact, that's the only team that won more than 90 games.

 

He's out of excuses.

 

Every team that has had the number and severity of injuries that the Cubs have had has had poor seasons. I'd like to see what the Cards could do without Carpeter, Wainwright, and Pujols for a couple of months. Look at the injuries the Mets have had causing them to have horrible seasons.

[javy knows my name]

Everyone wanted Baker gone and most thought Piniella was a great hire.

 

The bold text is completely false. You had a few people here gung-ho for Lou, but most were vehemently opposed against hiring him even when it was just being suggested before Dusty was actually gone. When Lou was got hired the general consensus beyond those fanatical few was basically "at least he's not Joe Girardi/it could be worst" in terms of being positive.

Really? I guess I wasn't quite here then, but I find this kind of hard to believe. Who else did people want?

[javy knows my name]

Hendry was promoted to GM mid-way thru 2002. From 2003-2009 the team compiled a record of 587-545 while managing to increase payroll from $75.7 million in 2002 to $146.6 million in 2010.

 

I have no idea why anyone would consider that impressive. The guy has absolutely done some good thing in his tenure, but his overall record is completely unimpressive once you consider the resources he's been given. He took over a team in a bad state, but he's had nearly eight years to turn this team into a regular contender while having a sizable financial advantage over most of the competition for much of that time.

 

Just because this is a team with a history of failure doesn't mean I need to accept six winning seasons in the last decade as something impressive. As far as I'm concerned, that should basically be the floor of expectations for a team with the kind of resources the Cubs have. I'm in no way in the "anyone but Hendry" camp, but I think he's been given ample oppurtunity and it's time to move in another direction.

Good post. This is pretty much exactly how I feel about Hendry.

[NCCubFan]

Everyone wanted Baker gone and most thought Piniella was a great hire.

 

The bold text is completely false. You had a few people here gung-ho for Lou, but most were vehemently opposed against hiring him even when it was just being suggested before Dusty was actually gone. When Lou was got hired the general consensus beyond those fanatical few was basically "at least he's not Joe Girardi/it could be worst" in terms of being positive.

Really? I guess I wasn't quite here then, but I find this kind of hard to believe. Who else did people want?

If I recall Bobby Valentine was at the top of many people's wish lists. I believe there was some talk about Fredi Gonzalez as well, but I may be confusing that with the previous search when Dusty Baker was eventually hired.

[lumafia]

Not than anybody gives two squirts of rat pee what I think, but I'm gonna share my opinion anyway.

 

Hendry's most glaring weakensses are his obsessions with "toolsy" high-school prospects, left-handed people in general (hitters and pitchers), players that have a tendency to hurt the Cubs (regardless of how horrible there numbers are against every other pitcher or hitter in the league), unhealthy devotion to managers with "experience", penchant for buggery, getting-his-man-at-any-cost-even-if-it-is-above-market-value syndrome (actually found this condition in one of my 6th grade health books) and soft drinks.

 

His strength is selling his bosses on his credibility so they will give him more money. That may outweigh his weakenesses.

 

Outside of all that, he's the bestest.

 

I think the 07 trade of Rocky Cherry and Scott Moore for Steve Trachsel was my favorite trade of his tenure so far. Only because Steve takes 5 hours to pitch 6 innings and any transaction involving a guy named Rocky Cherry is worthy of being a favorite. The "No you didn't just knock an osprey off it's perch from 200 feet away if it wasn't a protected bird in the state of Florida we would promote you immediately due to your awesomeness as long as it doesn't die oh wait it just died so now we're mad and your traded to Tampa Bay so TAKE THAT!" trade is a close second.

[lumafia]

Everyone wanted Baker gone and most thought Piniella was a great hire.

 

The bold text is completely false. You had a few people here gung-ho for Lou, but most were vehemently opposed against hiring him even when it was just being suggested before Dusty was actually gone. When Lou was got hired the general consensus beyond those fanatical few was basically "at least he's not Joe Girardi/it could be worst" in terms of being positive.

Really? I guess I wasn't quite here then, but I find this kind of hard to believe. Who else did people want?

If I recall Bobby Valentine was at the top of many people's wish lists. I believe there was some talk about Fredi Gonzalez as well, but I may be confusing that with the previous search when Dusty Baker was eventually hired.

 

As I recall, we had to pick from a group of managers that were on the scrap heap for a reason. None of them were ideal, so we picked someone that was considered a player's manager in the hopes that the label would help us lure some decent free agents on the negotiating table. I don't think anybody expected Lou to make many decisions. Mostly, we all thought he would sit in the dugout staring at the ceiling. As it turns out, he likes to make lots of decisions, which isn't good for us.

[CubColtPacer]

Everyone wanted Baker gone and most thought Piniella was a great hire.

 

The bold text is completely false. You had a few people here gung-ho for Lou, but most were vehemently opposed against hiring him even when it was just being suggested before Dusty was actually gone. When Lou was got hired the general consensus beyond those fanatical few was basically "at least he's not Joe Girardi/it could be worst" in terms of being positive.

Really? I guess I wasn't quite here then, but I find this kind of hard to believe. Who else did people want?

If I recall Bobby Valentine was at the top of many people's wish lists. I believe there was some talk about Fredi Gonzalez as well, but I may be confusing that with the previous search when Dusty Baker was eventually hired.

 

Fredi Gonzalez was definitely a candidate when the 2006 season ended. He got snapped up very quickly.

 

Many people thought Lou was exactly like Baker. They especially stressed his not liking walks/OBP and his misuse of young players. So they were entirely correct in not wanting a continuation of the Baker years, but Lou has proven to have very little in common with Baker.

[dew1679666265]

players that have a tendency to hurt the Cubs (regardless of how horrible there numbers are against every other pitcher or hitter in the league)

 

I don't remember a signing or trade of this sort since Jeff Blauser and that was before Hendry. I could well be forgetting something, though.

 

unhealthy devotion to managers with "experience"

 

While this is true with Hendry, it's also true with many GMs. That's why there are so significantly many retread managers out there.

[lumafia]

players that have a tendency to hurt the Cubs (regardless of how horrible there numbers are against every other pitcher or hitter in the league)

 

I don't remember a signing or trade of this sort since Jeff Blauser and that was before Hendry. I could well be forgetting something, though.

 

unhealthy devotion to managers with "experience"

 

While this is true with Hendry, it's also true with many GMs. That's why there are so significantly many retread managers out there.

 

Lenny Harris and Aaron Miles off the top of my head.

[dew1679666265]

players that have a tendency to hurt the Cubs (regardless of how horrible there numbers are against every other pitcher or hitter in the league)

 

I don't remember a signing or trade of this sort since Jeff Blauser and that was before Hendry. I could well be forgetting something, though.

 

unhealthy devotion to managers with "experience"

 

While this is true with Hendry, it's also true with many GMs. That's why there are so significantly many retread managers out there.

 

Lenny Harris and Aaron Miles off the top of my head.

 

Harris had a career .710 OPS against the Cubs and Miles has a .571 OPS against the Cubs. If that's why they were signed, it was more perception than reality.

[lumafia]

players that have a tendency to hurt the Cubs (regardless of how horrible there numbers are against every other pitcher or hitter in the league)

 

I don't remember a signing or trade of this sort since Jeff Blauser and that was before Hendry. I could well be forgetting something, though.

 

unhealthy devotion to managers with "experience"

 

While this is true with Hendry, it's also true with many GMs. That's why there are so significantly many retread managers out there.

 

Lenny Harris and Aaron Miles off the top of my head.

 

Harris had a career .710 OPS against the Cubs and Miles has a .571 OPS against the Cubs. If that's why they were signed, it was more perception than reality.

 

Lenny Harris' numbers in 24 ab's against the Cubs the year before he came on board

 

.458 .480 .750 1.230

 

The last 5 or 6 games against the Cubs in 06, Aaron Miles was a thorn in our side. He played great defense and got on base alot. I remember posting, in jest of course, that Miles would be a Cub before too long. Sure enough.

 

And your right. It was more perception than reality. I wasn't condoning Hendry's actions. Harris' tenure as a Cub player was one of the most amazing things I had ever seen, in a bad way. And it had absolutely no merit.

[Guest]

Aaron Miles playing "well"(8 for 26 with a BB, .306/.333/.306) in 2 series against the Cubs in August of 2006 is why Hendry signed him 2 and a half years later? I find that pretty hard to believe.

[ConstableRabbit]

Everyone wanted Baker gone and most thought Piniella was a great hire.

 

The bold text is completely false. You had a few people here gung-ho for Lou, but most were vehemently opposed against hiring him even when it was just being suggested before Dusty was actually gone. When Lou was got hired the general consensus beyond those fanatical few was basically "at least he's not Joe Girardi/it could be worst" in terms of being positive.

Really? I guess I wasn't quite here then, but I find this kind of hard to believe. Who else did people want?

If I recall Bobby Valentine was at the top of many people's wish lists. I believe there was some talk about Fredi Gonzalez as well, but I may be confusing that with the previous search when Dusty Baker was eventually hired.

Fredi Gonzalez was a front-runner. And Vance was praying for Dierker.

 

Most people (including myself) thought Lou would be too "old school" with regard to his baseball philosophies.

[dew1679666265]

Lenny Harris' numbers in 24 ab's against the Cubs the year before he came on board

 

.458 .480 .750 1.230

 

The last 5 or 6 games against the Cubs in 06, Aaron Miles was a thorn in our side. He played great defense and got on base alot. I remember posting, in jest of course, that Miles would be a Cub before too long. Sure enough.

 

And your right. It was more perception than reality. I wasn't condoning Hendry's actions. Harris' tenure as a Cub player was one of the most amazing things I had ever seen, in a bad way. And it had absolutely no merit.

 

I really think Harris' reputation as a good bat off the bench was the reason they brought him on board. Miles got a contract because of his versatility and, likely, reputation as a gritty player who helped teams win. None of those were good reasons for Miles, but I kinda liked the Lenny Harris signing at the time.

 

I didn't realize Lenny hit that well against us the year before, though. That makes it more of a possibility.

[soapy]

Now that a few of you want to use my name in your posts, you should at least accurately point out my position. Hendry has some positives (more good trades than bad) and some negatives (giving too much money/years to FA). He deserves blame for a team that has many veterans with unmovable contracts, but he deserves some credit for building teams over the years that won the division or were competitive. An important positive is that he hired Rothschild and Jaramillo as coaches. He has played an important part in rebuilding the farm system. He has been unlucky in having a high number of injured stars (Prior, Wood, Aram, DLee, etc.) over the years. If you want to use only wins and losses as a tool to grade him then he probably should be fired, but I think Ricketts might go a little deeper than W/L. My point has always been that it's real easy for all of us "pretend GMs" to criticize every move he makes (or doesn't make) without having all of the necessary information. I think he's respected by many people in baseball and if he's fired, he will have a job very soon afterward.

 

I guess I'm just not sure why you need to "go deeper" than W/L. Isn't that the bottom line? His job is to put together teams that win. His record is barely over .500. End of story, IMO. Every team has injuries. One can even excuse one bad year because of injuries, but it's been 7-8 years now. In that time, there's really only been one team that was very good (2008). In fact, that's the only team that won more than 90 games.

 

He's out of excuses.

 

Every team that has had the number and severity of injuries that the Cubs have had has had poor seasons. I'd like to see what the Cards could do without Carpeter, Wainwright, and Pujols for a couple of months. Look at the injuries the Mets have had causing them to have horrible seasons.

 

Yes, like I said (in the very next sentence) sometimes a bad year can be chalked up to bad luck with injuries. However, if you keep relying on said injury-prone players and expecting different results, you are to blame. If you have had eight years to show what you can build and have produced one 90+ win team and have an overall average of about .500, you probably haven't gotten the job done.

[loukycub]

meanwhile, back on topic, carlos silva is 5-0 with 3 no decisions and a respectable 3.35 era.

 

i think through may, the question has been answered, and silva has not only been useful, he's been the second best pitcher in the lineup so far.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Long live Cy Silva !!!

[DiamondMind]

Larry Rothschild deserves some serious props. As much heat as Lou gets these days, I think Rothschild deserves that much credit. He not only has augmented talent, but he's also made something out of nothing with cases like Silva and arguably Wells. Outside of Duncan, I don't think there's much better.

[C.C.]

LR will out live yet another manager.