Cubs 4th and 5th Starter

[inari]

Considering Shark's fastball, I don't think it is a stretch to believe that if he were to develop his off speed pitches that he could be an effective starter. Granted, that is a big "if", and he hasn't shown the ability to do that in the past.

 

Very encouraging to hear Rothschild's comments that he believes Shark has finally turned the corner.

 

Shark's fastball being fast doesn't make it good.

[jersey cubs fan]

Oh yeah, Samardzija still has a good chance at success. Ignore the complaints seen in this thread about him. The complaining reeks of an agenda... No matter how much Samardzija's success in 2008 at AAA & the majors bother some fans, he had that success.

 

Wow, this has to be one of the stupidest posts ever made on this site. I mean each one was more dumb than the preceding word. An agenda? Success that bothers fans? That is seriously stupid.

[CUBZ99]

Considering Shark's fastball, I don't think it is a stretch to believe that if he were to develop his off speed pitches that he could be an effective starter. Granted, that is a big "if", and he hasn't shown the ability to do that in the past.

 

Very encouraging to hear Rothschild's comments that he believes Shark has finally turned the corner.

 

Shark's fastball being fast doesn't make it good.

 

It sure helps.

[CUBZ99]

Oh yeah, Samardzija still has a good chance at success. Ignore the complaints seen in this thread about him. The complaining reeks of an agenda... No matter how much Samardzija's success in 2008 at AAA & the majors bother some fans, he had that success.

 

Wow, this has to be one of the stupidest posts ever made on this site. I mean each one was more dumb than the preceding word. An agenda? Success that bothers fans? That is seriously stupid.

 

Who has an agenda and against whom? Most fans don't fault Samardzija for signing his big deal for the Cubs and would have done the same thing. Also, beside the one ridiculous post about Samarzija's looks, most of the criticism leveled has been deserved.

[jersey cubs fan]

Oh yeah, Samardzija still has a good chance at success. Ignore the complaints seen in this thread about him. The complaining reeks of an agenda... No matter how much Samardzija's success in 2008 at AAA & the majors bother some fans, he had that success.

 

Wow, this has to be one of the stupidest posts ever made on this site. I mean each one was more dumb than the preceding word. An agenda? Success that bothers fans? That is seriously stupid.

 

Who has an agenda and against whom? Most fans don't fault Samardzija for signing his big deal for the Cubs and would have done the same thing. Also, beside the one ridiculous post about Samarzija's looks, most of the criticism leveled has been deserved.

 

He is a goofy looking sumbich though.

[shnsajax]

Considering Shark's fastball, I don't think it is a stretch to believe that if he were to develop his off speed pitches that he could be an effective starter. Granted, that is a big "if", and he hasn't shown the ability to do that in the past.

 

Very encouraging to hear Rothschild's comments that he believes Shark has finally turned the corner.

 

Shark's fastball being fast doesn't make it good.

 

It sure helps.

 

Not when it is perfectly straight and his delivery has zero deception.

[CUBZ99]

Considering Shark's fastball, I don't think it is a stretch to believe that if he were to develop his off speed pitches that he could be an effective starter. Granted, that is a big "if", and he hasn't shown the ability to do that in the past.

 

Very encouraging to hear Rothschild's comments that he believes Shark has finally turned the corner.

 

Shark's fastball being fast doesn't make it good.

 

It sure helps.

 

Not when it is perfectly straight and his delivery has zero deception.

 

It might be a problem is it is perfectly straight. Unless you have an amazing eye watching the game on TV, at least some scouts disagree with your assessment.

 

If you go back and look at his scouting reports from BA in 2006

BA 2006 --

His fastball has easy mid-90s velocity with movement

BA 2008 --

His heater has a rare combination of velocity(low to mid-90s, touching 98 mph) and sink.

BA 2009 --

He gets good run on a fastball that touches 96 mph when he starts and 98 mph when he relieves.

 

 

I would say the scouts don't agree with you..

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I've never been particularly impressed with Samardzilla. I always thought his best chance at success would come in the pen.

 

Granted, the first time I saw him pitch was a lackluster AA effort in Mississippi. My brother even looked at me and commented about how bad he looked. The Mississippi line-up wasn't that stacked at the time, and they didn't rough him up, but he was less than impressive. He certainly didn't look like someone who could start in the majors.

 

I'm sure he's improved a lot since then, and if he succeeds, I'm going to be happy. I just don't see him as a good option as a SP and that's even while looking at some of the lower end junk we have out there. I'd probably prefer him starting to Silva, but that's about as good as it gets for me right now. I hope that he surprises me, but I just don't have confidence in that happening, but it's nothing against him personally.

[dew1679666265]

I've never been particularly impressed with Samardzilla. I always thought his best chance at success would come in the pen.

 

Granted, the first time I saw him pitch was a lackluster AA effort in Mississippi. My brother even looked at me and commented about how bad he looked. The Mississippi line-up wasn't that stacked at the time, and they didn't rough him up, but he was less than impressive. He certainly didn't look like someone who could start in the majors.

 

I'm sure he's improved a lot since then, and if he succeeds, I'm going to be happy. I just don't see him as a good option as a SP and that's even while looking at some of the lower end junk we have out there. I'd probably prefer him starting to Silva, but that's about as good as it gets for me right now. I hope that he surprises me, but I just don't have confidence in that happening, but it's nothing against him personally.

 

I've thought his stuff looked pretty decent, but he's had trouble locating it at times and isn't real consistent with it. I think he can develop into a good pitcher, especially with Rothschild working with him, but I don't think it'll be this year.

[jersey cubs fan]

I would say the scouts don't agree with you..

 

But with 240 college innings and 436 professional innings he's been horrible at missing bats, indicating batters are seeing his pitches a lot better than scouts.

[jersey cubs fan]

I've thought his stuff looked pretty decent, but he's had trouble locating it at times and isn't real consistent with it. I think he can develop into a good pitcher, especially with Rothschild working with him, but I don't think it'll be this year.

 

If not now, when? People like pretending he's some raw pitcher just because he played football in college. That didn't stop him from racking up innings, and between college and pro ball he's well over 650 innings pitched, which is more than enough time to become developed. Compare that to Randy Wells who actually had to convert into a pitcher and was in the mid 500 innings mark before last season. If you're in your mid 20's and all your stuff accomplishes is pedestrian k rates, bad location problems and plenty of hits, where are you supposed to improve? Samardzija is not raw. He's had plenty of time to develop already and he is what he is, which is not impressive.

[dew1679666265]

I've thought his stuff looked pretty decent, but he's had trouble locating it at times and isn't real consistent with it. I think he can develop into a good pitcher, especially with Rothschild working with him, but I don't think it'll be this year.

 

If not now, when? People like pretending he's some raw pitcher just because he played football in college. That didn't stop him from racking up innings, and between college and pro ball he's well over 650 innings pitched, which is more than enough time to become developed. Compare that to Randy Wells who actually had to convert into a pitcher and was in the mid 500 innings mark before last season. If you're in your mid 20's and all your stuff accomplishes is pedestrian k rates, bad location problems and plenty of hits, where are you supposed to improve? Samardzija is not raw. He's had plenty of time to develop already and he is what he is, which is not impressive.

 

He's more raw than some, but he's still a prospect. Some prospects need more time to develop than others. This season will be big for him, though, I think. Rothschild is on record saying his off-speed stuff has improved. If that's the case, we should see better results. If he starts getting better results, maybe that gives him the confidence he needs to continue his improvement.

[CUBZ99]

I would say the scouts don't agree with you..

 

But with 240 college innings and 436 professional innings he's been horrible at missing bats, indicating batters are seeing his pitches a lot better than scouts.

 

Assuming that professional hitters don't know how to hit a sinking fastball, when they know that it is coming or assuming that they don't just sit on his uninspiring off speed pitches.

 

The statement was made that his fastball was "perfectly straight" Obviously that is not the case or even close.

[JudasIscariotTheBird]

I don't understand the "Oh no, Marshall as the 5th starter!!!" mentality. He'd be better than a VAST majority of 5th starters in the league. In fact, I'm rooting for him to win the spot.

[Guest]

Considering Shark's fastball, I don't think it is a stretch to believe that if he were to develop his off speed pitches that he could be an effective starter. Granted, that is a big "if", and he hasn't shown the ability to do that in the past.

 

Very encouraging to hear Rothschild's comments that he believes Shark has finally turned the corner.

 

Shark's fastball being fast doesn't make it good.

 

It sure helps.

 

Not when it is perfectly straight and his delivery has zero deception.

A "perfectly straight" fastball would have to be thrown with infinite velocity, so I'd assume it would be pretty hard to hit.

 

Shark's fastball gets plenty of movement. That's not his issue. Command of that pitch and consistency with his offspeed pitches have been the problems.

[Sammy Sofa]

depends on how long he has to be going out there. is Lilly really only out for a month? can Wells keep from falling off a cliff? If we're suddenly at a place where Marshall is getting 20+ starts, that wouldn't be good

 

In those scenarios, yes, the Cubs are likely fucked regardless of who they toss out there, but Marshall is a perfectly serviceable 4th or 5th starter. I don't see why anyone would be bemoaning Marshall himself as a starter (as opposed to bemoaning the situation that put him there).

[CUBZ99]

From Bruce's blog today:

http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/3517

As I mentioned in today's earlier blog, Jeff Samardzija threw live BP this morning. The Cubs are liking the way Samardzija looks this spring. Pitching coach Larry Rothschild worked with Samardzija for an extra week after last season to smooth out some mechancial issues, and the Cubs say they see enormous improvement.

[Donzo1679666396]

Who has an agenda and against whom? Most fans don't fault Samardzija for signing his big deal for the Cubs and would have done the same thing.

 

Also, beside the one ridiculous post about Samarzija's looks, most of the criticism leveled has been deserved.

As you said, "most" fans & "most" criticism...The ignorant hate spewed about Shark's potential & success is so contrary to fact it reeks of the aforementioned agenda. The subsequent rage against me for pointing this out is telling as well, lol.

 

I didn't mean to get anyone upset, it's tough times out there. If hatin' on millionaire professional athletes helps them with their problems, so be it.

 

If people actually are interested in Shark's situation, just read up on what he's been doing since the end of last season. What did he work on with Rothschild?!? What 4 pitches is he working on with 1 of them being unhittable in his last start for the Cubs & in Mexico?!? What were players saying about that have seen him in the majors & in the MWL?!?

 

Couple all this with his extraordinary potential, newusername & all Cub fans certainly have legitimate hope that Shark can be a quality major league pitcher

Edited February 25, 2010 by Donzo

[Donzo1679666396]

From Bruce's blog today:

http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/3517

As I mentioned in today's earlier blog, Jeff Samardzija threw live BP this morning. The Cubs are liking the way Samardzija looks this spring. Pitching coach Larry Rothschild worked with Samardzija for an extra week after last season to smooth out some mechancial issues, and the Cubs say they see enormous improvement.

This just adds to all the things said about him since the end of last season & his stint in the MWL in October.

[Sammy Sofa]

As you said, "most" fans & "most" criticism...The ignorant hate spewed about Shark's potential & success is so contrary to fact it reeks of the aforementioned agenda. The subsequent rage against me for pointing this out is telling as well, lol.

 

I didn't mean to get anyone upset, it's tough times out there. If hatin' on millionaire professional athletes helps them with their problems, so be it.

 

What the [expletive] are you babbling about?

 

There's nobody here that wouldn't be happy if Shark turned into at least a useful pitcher.

[VVMattVV]

Man, I'd be so pissed if the guy we paid a lot of money to turned out to be a useful player for my favorite baseball team!

[VVMattVV]

The ignorant hate spewed about Shark's potential & success is so contrary to fact it reeks of the aforementioned agenda. The subsequent rage against me for pointing this out is telling as well, lol.

 

lol indeed

[Tarver]

Who has an agenda and against whom? Most fans don't fault Samardzija for signing his big deal for the Cubs and would have done the same thing.

 

Also, beside the one ridiculous post about Samarzija's looks, most of the criticism leveled has been deserved.

As you said, "most" fans & "most" criticism...The ignorant hate spewed about Shark's potential & success is so contrary to fact it reeks of the aforementioned agenda. The subsequent rage against me for pointing this out is telling as well, lol.

 

I didn't mean to get anyone upset, it's tough times out there. If hatin' on millionaire professional athletes helps them with their problems, so be it.

 

If people actually are interested in Shark's situation, just read up on what he's been doing since the end of last season. What did he work on with Rothschild?!? What 4 pitches is he working on with 1 of them being unhittable in his last start for the Cubs & in Mexico?!? What were players saying about that have seen him in the majors & in the MWL?!?

 

Couple all this with his extraordinary potential, newusername & all Cub fans certainly have legitimate hope that Shark can be a quality major league pitcher

 

I had nothing to do with this

[cubsfan26]

If we're suddenly at a place where Marshall is getting 20+ starts, that wouldn't be good

 

Why? He did just fine in 07 getting 19 starts. Marshall pitched well the first month and half as the first 5th starter last year. But basically lost his rotation spot because he was lefthanded. Since they need a LH pitcher out of the pen, and Wells was pitching so well. Sure of course he is going to be a better reliever then starter, most pitchers would be. But he probably has more value as a starter. My one concern is him wearing down after 3 and half to 4 months. Since he's never really pitched many innings in his career(even back in the minors). He's basically the reason why I feel ok about the rotation.

 

 

Since I think Gorzelanny is the darkhorse guy and guy with the most upside to perform well in the rotation this season. But at the sametime he's been horribly inconsistent the last two years. So he's not someone I want to pencil in the rotation full-time yet. But as long as we have Marshall as a full-time option behind Gorzelanny I feel ok with the rotation. Since I think Gorzelanny as is, can fill in just fine in spot starts. With Marshall being the number 5, and if Marshall starts to wear down we can always find a veteran serviceable number 5 cheap at the deadline or in August. Samardzija is a guy I'm not expecting much from this year. With what the Cubs invested in him, I'm sure he's the guy they would like to see as the number 5. But I guess I need to see it to believe it. As for Silva well again he needs to prove himself, and if he can't be a serviceable Jason Marquis like 5th starter, well then he should be released. But right now I have my fingers crossed that Gorzelanny can have a simliar season as he did in 07. Hopefully working with Rothschild and having veterans like Dempster, Lilly(who simliar up and down years as young pitchers) and even Maddux around during spring training. Will help him get back on track. Which is possible, since he didn't have those type of people around him with the Pirates.

[jersey cubs fan]

Who has an agenda and against whom? Most fans don't fault Samardzija for signing his big deal for the Cubs and would have done the same thing.

 

Also, beside the one ridiculous post about Samarzija's looks, most of the criticism leveled has been deserved.

As you said, "most" fans & "most" criticism...The ignorant hate spewed about Shark's potential & success is so contrary to fact it reeks of the aforementioned agenda. The subsequent rage against me for pointing this out is telling as well, lol.

 

I didn't mean to get anyone upset, it's tough times out there. If hatin' on millionaire professional athletes helps them with their problems, so be it.

 

You aren't good at making reasonable points.