Ben Sheets (Was Sheets Signs with A's)

[CubsWin]

Rothschild recently stated that Shark pitched well over the winter and that the secondary pitches have finally come around. I'm hoping that he is one of the guys that finally puts it together this year and we get better than expected performance.

 

I hope so as well, unfortunately hope is all we got. It's tough enough to a get a good performing prospect to translate into good performance in the majors, but it's really tough to turn an underperformer into a good one, and I don't like the idea of hoping for that to be a key for your season.

Why would hoping for Samardzija to be a good 5th starter be "a key" for the Cubs season?

[Guest]

I'm still holding out hope that Thomas Diamond regains his command and wins the #5 spot this spring.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I'm still holding out hope that Thomas Diamond regains his command and wins the #5 spot this spring.

 

Id very much like that as well, but unfortuantely, I think that no matter what he does in ST hes in the back of the line behind Gorz, Marshall, Shark, and Silva and will start the season in Iowa.

[CUBZ99]

Rothschild recently stated that Shark pitched well over the winter and that the secondary pitches have finally come around. I'm hoping that he is one of the guys that finally puts it together this year and we get better than expected performance.

 

I hope so as well, unfortunately hope is all we got. It's tough enough to a get a good performing prospect to translate into good performance in the majors, but it's really tough to turn an underperformer into a good one, and I don't like the idea of hoping for that to be a key for your season.

Why would hoping for Samardzija to be a good 5th starter be "a key" for the Cubs season?

 

I think you misread his post. He was saying he hoped Samardjiza would have a good year, not that he had to have a good year.

[Cubswin11]

I'm still holding out hope that Thomas Diamond regains his command and wins the #5 spot this spring.

 

Id very much like that as well, but unfortuantely, I think that no matter what he does in ST hes in the back of the line behind Gorz, Marshall, Shark, and Silva and will start the season in Iowa.

What were Diamond's final winter league stats?

 

There is no reason, given his past success/rankings, that he shouldn't be given the same opportunities as Samardzija, Gorzo, and Silva as they all have their flaws and various degrees of success in the majors over their careers (some good stretches and some horribly awful stretches). It would be a disservice to the team to not consider Thomas and other SP options for the #4/5 spots in ST as even the so call "frontrunners" in Gorzo, Shark, and Silva all certainly have their questions and spotty track records, at best, through their major league careers

[RedFlash]

I'm still holding out hope that Thomas Diamond regains his command and wins the #5 spot this spring.

 

I think people wants Thomas to win a spot, so that they can use the old "Diamond in the rough" comment.... :D

[Banedon]

I'm still holding out hope that Thomas Diamond regains his command and wins the #5 spot this spring.

 

I think people wants Thomas to win a spot, so that they can use the old "Diamond in the rough" comment.... :D

 

Ugh...now I don't want him to win a spot, for that reason.

[biittner77]

Rothschild recently stated that Shark pitched well over the winter and that the secondary pitches have finally come around. I'm hoping that he is one of the guys that finally puts it together this year and we get better than expected performance.

 

I hope so as well, unfortunately hope is all we got. It's tough enough to a get a good performing prospect to translate into good performance in the majors, but it's really tough to turn an underperformer into a good one, and I don't like the idea of hoping for that to be a key for your season.

Why would hoping for Samardzija to be a good 5th starter be "a key" for the Cubs season?

 

I think you misread his post. He was saying he hoped Samardjiza would have a good year, not that he had to have a good year.

 

I don't think he misread it at all. With Lilly out for the first month of the season at least the Cubs are going to need the back end of their rotation to be good. I don't feel confident that Wells will continue to pitch as well as he did last year. Gorzelanny is a capable #5 starter but he will probably be the #4 starter. The other options for the #5 slot haven't had any real MLB success except for Silva. If Silva wins the #5 spot the Cubs are likely in very big trouble.

 

So yes, the Cubs do need Smardz to pitch well or they could find themselves in a deep hole at the end of April.

[Soul]

Rothschild recently stated that Shark pitched well over the winter and that the secondary pitches have finally come around. I'm hoping that he is one of the guys that finally puts it together this year and we get better than expected performance.

 

I hope so as well, unfortunately hope is all we got. It's tough enough to a get a good performing prospect to translate into good performance in the majors, but it's really tough to turn an underperformer into a good one, and I don't like the idea of hoping for that to be a key for your season.

Why would hoping for Samardzija to be a good 5th starter be "a key" for the Cubs season?

 

I think you misread his post. He was saying he hoped Samardjiza would have a good year, not that he had to have a good year.

 

I don't think he misread it at all. With Lilly out for the first month of the season at least the Cubs are going to need the back end of their rotation to be good. I don't feel confident that Wells will continue to pitch as well as he did last year. Gorzelanny is a capable #5 starter but he will probably be the #4 starter. The other options for the #5 slot haven't had any real MLB success except for Silva. If Silva wins the #5 spot the Cubs are likely in very big trouble.

 

So yes, the Cubs do need Smardz to pitch well or they could find themselves in a deep hole at the end of April.

 

Surely Wells can at least be our viable #5 starter in that scenario.

[jersey cubs fan]

Rothschild recently stated that Shark pitched well over the winter and that the secondary pitches have finally come around. I'm hoping that he is one of the guys that finally puts it together this year and we get better than expected performance.

 

I hope so as well, unfortunately hope is all we got. It's tough enough to a get a good performing prospect to translate into good performance in the majors, but it's really tough to turn an underperformer into a good one, and I don't like the idea of hoping for that to be a key for your season.

Why would hoping for Samardzija to be a good 5th starter be "a key" for the Cubs season?

 

It's tough to win with an imcompetent 5th starter, especially when you don't have any top notch aces to carry the rotation. The goal is 90+ wins and securing the division, not scraping by and hoping to be in the race if others struggle the same. It would be a key spot because the Cubs only have 2 relatively dependable rotation spots filled going into the season, so they are going to need guys to step up and perform in the rotation.

[mul21]

 

I don't think he misread it at all. With Lilly out for the first month of the season at least the Cubs are going to need the back end of their rotation to be good. I don't feel confident that Wells will continue to pitch as well as he did last year. Gorzelanny is a capable #5 starter but he will probably be the #4 starter. The other options for the #5 slot haven't had any real MLB success except for Silva. If Silva wins the #5 spot the Cubs are likely in very big trouble.

 

So yes, the Cubs do need Smardz to pitch well or they could find themselves in a deep hole at the end of April.

 

Surely Wells can at least be our viable #5 starter in that scenario.

 

Except in that scenario, Wells is your #3 with Lilly out until May.

 

Z

Demp

Wells

Gorzo

Shark/Marshall/Silva/other dog crap Hendry signs

[CUBZ99]

 

I don't think he misread it at all. With Lilly out for the first month of the season at least the Cubs are going to need the back end of their rotation to be good. I don't feel confident that Wells will continue to pitch as well as he did last year. Gorzelanny is a capable #5 starter but he will probably be the #4 starter. The other options for the #5 slot haven't had any real MLB success except for Silva. If Silva wins the #5 spot the Cubs are likely in very big trouble.

 

So yes, the Cubs do need Smardz to pitch well or they could find themselves in a deep hole at the end of April.

 

Surely Wells can at least be our viable #5 starter in that scenario.

 

Except in that scenario, Wells is your #3 with Lilly out until May.

 

Z

Demp

Wells

Gorzo

Shark/Marshall/Silva/other dog crap Hendry signs

 

Marshall's career numbers indicate that he could be an effective #5 pitcher and I don't see why it would be a bad thing to give a young pitcher an opportunity to win the spot. Prior to last year, many of us thought Wells was a bullpen arm and he took advantage of his opportunity. I'm not saying that we will get another Wells-like performance from any of the #5 candidates, but I would much rather give them a shot, than overpay for a Marquis/Looper type pitcher.

[jersey cubs fan]

Marshall's career numbers indicate that he could be an effective #5 pitcher and I don't see why it would be a bad thing to give a young pitcher an opportunity to win the spot.

 

Three things:

 

Marshall has always seemed to be a good candidate to slide into that role, but the Cubs have been reluctant, and are reportedly still thinking of him as a reliever.

 

It's not a bad thing to give a young pitcher an opportunity, but hopefully that's a high quality young pitcher who has established himself as a really good prospect. Wells kind of came out of nowhere, and it's irresponsible to build your team counting on guys to pull that sort of thing off every year.

 

And it's not one spot that's open. They have 2 dependable starters to start the year, 3 spots with a varying degree of questionable status.

[Soul]

Except in that scenario, Wells is your #3 with Lilly out until May.

 

Z

Demp

Wells

Gorzo

Shark/Marshall/Silva/other dog crap Hendry signs

 

OK. Hopefully only for a month or two, then Wells can jump down. I could live with that.

[weis21]

With the Cubs having two off days in the first two weeks, wouldn't they just go with a four-man rotation for that time period? Hopefully that would mean we'd only need Gorzo/Shark/etc. to start perhaps three games before Lilly is back.

[jersey cubs fan]

With the Cubs having two off days in the first two weeks, wouldn't they just go with a four-man rotation for that time period? Hopefully that would mean we'd only need Gorzo/Shark/etc. to start perhaps three games before Lilly is back.

 

In theory, but they rarely end up doing that. And leaning heavy on the "big boys" early isn't ideal either, as those guys usually don't go long in games anyway, and need to be conserved a bit. And wouldn't they want to give Wells rest when they can, considering his lack of 200 inningness? Plus, Lilly is out at least a month, and it's really hard to rely on a pitcher to come back on time and at full strenght from surgery. And you already have a situation where the 4th starter to start the season is in doubt, let alone the 5th. Zambrano, Dempster, Wells, who and who?

[Soul]

Z, Dempster, Wells, Sheets and Gorzo come April.

 

8-)

[Cubswin11]

Z, Dempster, Wells, Sheets and Gorzo come April.

 

8-)

Z, Sheets, 1 of Lilly/Dempster come October :cool:

[CubsWin]

Rothschild recently stated that Shark pitched well over the winter and that the secondary pitches have finally come around. I'm hoping that he is one of the guys that finally puts it together this year and we get better than expected performance.

 

I hope so as well, unfortunately hope is all we got. It's tough enough to a get a good performing prospect to translate into good performance in the majors, but it's really tough to turn an underperformer into a good one, and I don't like the idea of hoping for that to be a key for your season.

Why would hoping for Samardzija to be a good 5th starter be "a key" for the Cubs season?

 

It's tough to win with an imcompetent 5th starter, especially when you don't have any top notch aces to carry the rotation. The goal is 90+ wins and securing the division, not scraping by and hoping to be in the race if others struggle the same. It would be a key spot because the Cubs only have 2 relatively dependable rotation spots filled going into the season, so they are going to need guys to step up and perform in the rotation.

I agree that in the scenario you described, having a dependable 5th starter would be "a key" to having a successful season. But I find the scenario you describe rather pessimistic.

 

What if all those things don't go wrong? What if the Cubs aren't suddenly left with only 2 dependable starters, but have 4 after Lilly comes back in May? What if Zambrano bounces back? He is 28. What if he pitches 200+ innings again this season? That would be an improvement over last season. What if Lilly is only out a month as expected. There have been no reports of him hitting any setbacks of yet. The Cubs play 24 games in April. That's five starts Lilly will be missing. Let's say the Cubs go 1-4 in those five games, how big of a hole could that possibly create? Let's say Wells comes back a bit but doesn't completely tank and instead of an ERA of 3.05, he puts up a 3.75 or a 4.00. For a 4th starter, that's still well above league average. And what if the Cubs 5th starter isn't "incompetent"? Now that the Cubs have Grabow and Gorz in the pen, perhaps they will feel more comfortable putting Marshall in the rotation where he has put up a 4.37 ERA over the last three seasons. That's far from incompetent in my book.

 

When you add in Byrd likely performing better than Bradley did, and Soriano, Soto and Ramirez likely performing better and being healthier than last season, is it really necessary for Jeff Samardzija to perform well in order for the Cubs to win 90 games?

[jersey cubs fan]

What if all those things don't go wrong? What if the Cubs aren't suddenly left with only 2 dependable starters, but have 4 after Lilly comes back in May?

 

 

The fact is they are starting the season without Lilly and he's coming off surgery. You prepare for the season that way and go from there. I don't give a crap about going into the season thinking, "hey if all these things workout we'll be alright". Of course if everything works out this team will be fine. But that's not how reality works. They are going into the season in a position of weakness, only 2 dependable starting pitchers, and that is before accounting for the inevitable speed bump. As of now they are last year's team, minus Harden and Bradley, plus Byrd and Silva. I don't see how that is even remotely an improvement. And last year's team was not an improvement from the 2008 team. (minus Wood, DeRosa and Edmonds, plus Gregg, Bradley and Miles).

 

They need to replace Harden just to stay even with last year's rotation.

 

I don't see why a $140m payroll team has to go into a season hoping a bunch of stuff will work out so they can have a chance. This team should be in a position where a bunch of things would have to go wrong to think they don't have a chance, and that's not the case.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

200 inningness reminds me of the time somebody asked me if I wanted to come over and watch his new 1080pness

[jersey cubs fan]

200 inningness reminds me of the time somebody asked me if I wanted to come over and watch his new 1080pness

 

Did you enjoy it?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

it was just ok for me

[Backtobanks]

What if all those things don't go wrong? What if the Cubs aren't suddenly left with only 2 dependable starters, but have 4 after Lilly comes back in May?

 

 

The fact is they are starting the season without Lilly and he's coming off surgery. You prepare for the season that way and go from there. I don't give a crap about going into the season thinking, "hey if all these things workout we'll be alright". Of course if everything works out this team will be fine. But that's not how reality works. They are going into the season in a position of weakness, only 2 dependable starting pitchers, and that is before accounting for the inevitable speed bump. As of now they are last year's team, minus Harden and Bradley, plus Byrd and Silva. I don't see how that is even remotely an improvement. And last year's team was not an improvement from the 2008 team. (minus Wood, DeRosa and Edmonds, plus Gregg, Bradley and Miles).

 

They need to replace Harden just to stay even with last year's rotation.

 

I don't see why a $140m payroll team has to go into a season hoping a bunch of stuff will work out so they can have a chance. This team should be in a position where a bunch of things would have to go wrong to think they don't have a chance, and that's not the case.

 

The only way a team goes into a season "where a bunch of things would have to go wrong to think they don't have a chance" is when the team is the Yankees or Red Sox with their luxury-tax budgets. Most teams don't have All Stars at every position.

[jersey cubs fan]

1

 

The only way a team goes into a season "where a bunch of things would have to go wrong to think they don't have a chance" is when the team is the Yankees or Red Sox with their luxury-tax budgets. Most teams don't have All Stars at every position.

 

And the Angels, Phillies Dodgers.

 

It's not a case of needing an all star at every position. It's a matter of having a huge advantage over the competition but not having a clearly better team, and having several questionable positions. They have 2 stable rotation spots going into 2010 and 3 questionable spots. That should not be.