McGwire admits to steroid use

[Rob]

mcgwire would have been injured and out of the league 5 years earlier if he hadn't been juicing, so 100 homers is probably right

 

Or the steroids caused the injuries and cost him substantial playing time.

 

Steroids helped him add a lot of bulk, but they don't do anything for tendons and ligaments. And the added strain from all that bulk certainly wasn't helping.

[DivineBovine]

 

Nobody doubts he had natural power. But so did Dave Kingman. He should never get into the hall, because he might've put up Dave Kingman numbers without the juice. If steroids can turn Sammy Sosa into a 300 hitter who hits 60 home runs multiple times, Barry Bonds into a guy who put up an OPS of 1.42 at age 40, then they can turn a guy with Dave Kingman talent into a .260 career hitter who hits 580 homers.

 

 

McGwire was better than Kingman, and would have been regardless. He had plate discipline and great raw power from the beginning. McGwire had a better season as a rookie than Kingman ever had in his career. Mac vs. Kong is not a good comparison, but it is reasonable to think he may have hit a hundred less homers over the course of his career and been more on the periphery of HOF discussion if not for the roids.

 

Steroids didn't make Sammy a .300 hitter (at least solely). They helped him hit 60 homers, but there was also a clear shift in his approach that helped a lot.

 

Roids don't help you make contact or be patient at the plate. They help you hit the ball harder and farther. There plenty of physical specimens in the the steroid era who still stank out loud.

 

 

All that said, Mac's confession was a joke. Again, I don't particularly care that he used, but coming with a litany of rationalizations, excuses and half truths just makes he and the era look even more sketchy, and insults the intelligence of everyone who hears it.

 

 

OK, maybe not Kingman. How about Adam Dunn. Adam Dunn in no HOFer. He might be if he has been juicing for 10 years.

 

Regarding your arguments regarding contact or plate discipline: I used to share your thoughts. But history has clearly proven them wrong.

 

Because roids have clearly helped both. If you are bigger and stronger and have a quicker bat, you can wait on the ball and make better contact. Bonds hit a lot of balls 50 feet over the wall in the toughest park in baseball. Are you telling me that those balls would've all been just 10 feet over the wall without the roids?

 

It's clearly more complicated than that. The fact is, we have no idea what all the affects of testosterone is on athleticism. We don't know if it just makes you stronger, or even helps coordination or reflexes. We can argue about the affects when we don't have great medical studies. I'm just going by what you see from the statistics.

 

It has clearly helped average and plate discipline.

[NonProfitCow]

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/mark_mcgwire_admits_it_was_really

 

"I'm sorry everyone had a problem with it," McGwire added. "But I was having a blast."

"I was hitting baseballs over 450 feet," McGwire said. "That's really far. And high, too. Oh my God, were they high. Towering, in fact. I was, like, crushing these things."

"High plus far plus hard equals big-time, serious fun," McGwire continued.

McGwire said that the main thing he learned in his 16 years as a player was that people tend to be happier when players are hitting the ball really far.

 

"By their reactions, I just figured they were cool with me taking steroids and having a good time," McGwire said. "They clearly knew I was taking performance-enhancing drugs, right? I mean, look at me. I look like a [expletive] monster. Plus, come on—I was hitting the ball really, really [expletive] far."

[Soul]

mcgwire would have been injured and out of the league 5 years earlier if he hadn't been juicing, so 100 homers is probably right

 

Or the steroids caused the injuries and cost him substantial playing time.

 

Steroids helped him add a lot of bulk, but they don't do anything for tendons and ligaments. And the added strain from all that bulk certainly wasn't helping.

 

Yeah, it's hard to say on that.

[The Voice of Reason]

Telander nails it.

 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/telander/1992166,CST-SPT-rick15.article

 

''I wish I had never taken steroids,'' McGwire said Monday, five years after it might have meant something to a Congress and the world.

 

I sat four rows behind McGwire that afternoon on Capitol Hill, March 17, 2005, in that jammed and somber hearing room. McGwire wore his funeral suit and business glasses -- Sammy Sosa had his interpreter; Raphael Palmeiro had his wagging forefinger; Jose Canseco had his oiled, blue-black hair.

 

''My name is Mark McGwire,'' the ex-A's and Cardinals slugger said. ''I have played the game of baseball since I was 9 years old. I was privileged to be able to play 15 years in the major leagues. ... I will do everything in my power to help the game, its players and its fans.''

 

What McGwire would not do was admit the only thing that mattered: That he -- with 583 career home runs and a one-time-record-breaking 70 home runs in a season -- was a cowardly, lying fraud.

 

That is -- and let's get this straight, no misinterpretations allowed -- a cheater.

 

Forget his self-praised swing and talent and dedication.

 

C-H-E-A-T-E-R.

 

Is that clear?

 

And he still is.

 

What he gave us the other day with his weeping admission of what we already knew, but could not prove, were even more lies.

 

I am amazed at how many people seem to have fallen for McGwire's supposed brave baring of his soul.

[Sammy Sofa]

*Yawn*

 

Oh, look...yet another sports "journalist" that did squat to expose all of this "cowardly lying" for the decades it was going on now trying to act all high and mighty. Even better it's the [expletive] that refused to submit his HOF ballot.

[The Voice of Reason]

*Yawn*

 

Oh, look...yet another sports "journalist" that did squat to expose all of this "cowardly lying" for the decades it was going on now trying to act all high and mighty. Even better it's the [expletive] that refused to submit his HOF ballot.

 

Let's try to downplay McGwire actions by shooting the messenger. Problem with that is you have your facts wrong - yet again.

 

Telander was writing about steroid use for years. Part of the reason he's won so many writing awards.

[Sammy Sofa]

*Yawn*

 

Oh, look...yet another sports "journalist" that did squat to expose all of this "cowardly lying" for the decades it was going on now trying to act all high and mighty. Even better it's the [expletive] that refused to submit his HOF ballot.

 

Let's try to downplay McGwire actions by shooting the messenger. Problem with that is you have your facts wrong - yet again.

 

Telander was writing about steroid use for years. Part of the reason he's won so many writing awards.

 

I'm not downplaying anything; I'm just not going to champion someone who is being pissy like this when they did nothing to break this story when PED use was rampant for the last few decades.

 

Telander was writing in the 1980's and 1990's...where are his big stories exposing PED use in baseball? Nowhere. He wrote on the general subject of steroids and that was it. He wrote a cover story about Tony Mandarich which was basically fellating the guy and he ended up being one of football's biggest steroids stories. He didn't star asking "tough questions" about steroids in any sport until the turn of the century when it became the story du jour because it simply couoldn't be ignored any longer.

 

There's no need to "shoot the messenger" because this guy, like 99% of the other sports journalists of the last 20-40 years, has absolutely no leg to stand on in terms of acting all high and mighty. This would be the equivalent of national news journalists from the 60's acting stunned after the fact when it was shown that JFK was banging everything in sight: THEY ALL KNEW IT AND CHOSE NOT TO COVER IT. It's ridiculous for Telander and his ilk to take the high ground and act like they were deceived or betrayed...THESE GUYS WEREN'T SUBTLE ABOUT IT. McGwire himself would have his helpers sitting in his goddman locker when he was giving interviews. The sports media did next to nothing to expose any of this until it could not be ignored any longer. They're just as culpable as MLB itself in letting it go on, and now you get some schlub like Telander being melodramatic and writing garbage essentially acting like he HAVE to suspect Ryan Theriot of juicing because he hit some extra home runs (something that on its own betrays a profound lack of understanding for the game he's writing about) and, waaaah-waaaaaah, baseball and bad men like Mark McGwire have made us this suspicious, boooo-hoooooooo. Telander should shut the [expletive] up and explain why he and his fellow journalists were so horrible at their job for decades in regards to PED in the major American sports until about 10 years ago. Their indignation rings totally hollow.

[The Voice of Reason]

Hey Nuts,

 

Bruce Miles has been covering baseball for over 20 years and has been the Cubs beat writer since 1998 but he never exposed Sammy's steroid use despite seeing him play almost everyday. Does that mean he's not a great writer, of course not, but he's not a private investigator or investigative reporter and neither is Telander.

 

And for the record, Bruce didn't vote McLiar into the Hall of Fame either.

Edited January 16, 2010 by The Voice of Reason

[TruffleShuffle]

at least call him McLiar since it rhymes. McFraud is just stupid.

[The Voice of Reason]

at least call him McLiar since it rhymes. McFraud is just stupid.

 

Fixed. Thanks Truff.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm not sitting here declaring that McGwire should be in the Hall. My comment was in regards to stupid move on Telander's part to not submit a ballot AT ALL to make some asinine statement about steroids. Guys like Telander acting holier than thou now is nothing but hypocrisy given how they could have easily exposed the decades of PED use across major American sports for decades if they had wanted to or even tried. I'll level the same criticism at Miles, too, though at least he isn't pulling the kind of crap Telander and others are where they're effectively leading the mob. Telander's crap is meaningless, empty rhetoric. The use of PED's didn't require a private investigator or an investigative reporter. I don't buy for a second that he and his kind couldn't have exposed if they so wished with a minimum of effort. For him to act now like he had no idea and that he's been "bretrayed" is just laughable garbage that's as embarassing as any player from the last 40 years that goes out of their way to act outraged waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay after the fact. They're all culpable. They all contributed to that environment existing and thriving as long as it did. To act as they do now is simply an effort on their part to distance themselves from their own cowardice if they truly think this is such a horrible thing.

[The Voice of Reason]

I'm not sitting here declaring that McGwire should be in the Hall. My comment was in regards to stupid move on Telander's part to not submit a ballot AT ALL to make some asinine statement about steroids. Guys like Telander acting holier than thou now is nothing but hypocrisy given how they could have easily exposed the decades of PED use across major American sports for decades if they had wanted to or even tried. I'll level the same criticism at Miles, too, though at least he isn't pulling the kind of crap Telander and others are where they're effectively leading the mob. Telander's crap is meaningless, empty rhetoric. The use of PED's didn't require a private investigator or an investigative reporter. I don't buy for a second that he and his kind couldn't have exposed if they so wished with a minimum of effort. For him to act now like he had no idea and that he's been "bretrayed" is just laughable garbage that's as embarassing as any player from the last 40 years that goes out of their way to act outraged waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay after the fact. They're all culpable. They all contributed to that environment existing and thriving as long as it did. To act as they do now is simply an effort on their part to distance themselves from their own cowardice if they truly think this is such a horrible thing.

 

Telander was a student athlete and graduated from Northwestern with a degree in Journalism. He had a best selling book in the early 20s that was later turned into a movie. He was one of the pioneers of talk radio. He has earned too many writing awards to name. And the sports journalistic credentials of Nuts & Gum are?

[Sammy Sofa]

Telander was a student athlete and graduated from Northwestern with a degree in Journalism. He had a best selling book in the early 20s that was later turned into a movie. He was one of the pioneers of talk radio. He has earned too many writing awards to name. And the sports journalistic credentials of Nuts & Gum are?

 

I'm sorry, how does this do anything except back up my point? You're willing to give him a pass on the issue of steroids prior to 2000 despite all of his credentials? What, was he just missing it everytime it was discussed or guys wer leaving the evidence sitting around their lockers or clubhouses? Was he just incompetent? Were PED's only being handled and used by a secret cabal of sports masterminds who kept it skillfully hidden from everyone else?

 

I really don't see how listing the guy's credentials does anything to defend why he either completely missed the PED story for decades or willfully chose to ignore it or not pursue it. It's one of those three options. Which is it? Maybe we can give him a medal for whichever one it was since he did it so "well" for so long despite this being a gigantic open secret for decades.

[The Voice of Reason]

Telander was a student athlete and graduated from Northwestern with a degree in Journalism. He had a best selling book in the early 20s that was later turned into a movie. He was one of the pioneers of talk radio. He has earned too many writing awards to name. And the sports journalistic credentials of Nuts & Gum are?

 

I'm sorry, how does this do anything except back up my point? You're willing to give him a pass on the issue of steroids prior to 2000 despite all of his credentials? What, was he just missing it everytime it was discussed or guys wer leaving the evidence sitting around their lockers or clubhouses? Was he just incompetent? Were PED's only being handled and used by a secret cabal of sports masterminds who kept it skillfully hidden from everyone else?

 

I really don't see how listing the guy's credentials does anything to defend why he either completely missed the PED story for decades or willfully chose to ignore it or not pursue it. It's one of those three options. Which is it? Maybe we can give him a medal for whichever one it was since he did it so "well" for so long despite this being a gigantic open secret for decades.

 

He's a sports columnist not a detective. Attacking Telander is really making you look silly. And Nuts & Gum superior credential are?

[Sammy Sofa]

He's a sports columnist not a detective. Attacking Telander is really making you look silly. And Nuts & Gum superior credential are?

 

So on your list of strawmen you've got people attacking guys like Telander to try and take the heat off of guys like McGwire, then people arguing that McGwire and now that people have to have "superior credentials" to question someone like Telander? That's absurd. I don't have to be a "superior" sports journalist or even a sports journalist to do that. Again, explain to me how you justify Telander not touching this before 2000. Was it too well hidden? Did he ignore it? Do you really think he had no clue or couldn't have "uncovered" decades' worth of PED use if he had looked into it even halfheartedly? Hasn't it become apparent by now that this wasn't some secret activity by a small group of individuals? Coaches were involved, trainers were involved, doctors were involved and everyone was going back and forth between them and reccomended who to go to and what to use and so on. This was an open secret AT BEST. You REALLY think that it would have required some kind of serious investigation or detective work to figure this out? It's not like people were being subtle, leaving PED's and evidence thereof around the clubhouses and locker rooms. A sports journalist would have to have been blind and deaf, or perhaps just willfully so, to have NO idea that anything was going on for as long as it did.

 

But please, "defend" Telander again in this ignorance by listing his credentials. Explain how that resume excuses him having no idea this was going on or choosing to ignore it, because it seems like either he, like scores of others, chose to not press the issue or was just ridiculously incompetent at his job. Which is it?

 

I suppose you must be the biggest Hendry defender on the board, too. I mean, how could you tolerate all of these people here critcizing him? What are their general managing credentials?

[minnesotacubsfan]

Telander was a student athlete and graduated from Northwestern with a degree in Journalism. He had a best selling book in the early 20s that was later turned into a movie. He was one of the pioneers of talk radio. He has earned too many writing awards to name. And the sports journalistic credentials of Nuts & Gum are?

 

I'm sorry, how does this do anything except back up my point? You're willing to give him a pass on the issue of steroids prior to 2000 despite all of his credentials? What, was he just missing it everytime it was discussed or guys wer leaving the evidence sitting around their lockers or clubhouses? Was he just incompetent? Were PED's only being handled and used by a secret cabal of sports masterminds who kept it skillfully hidden from everyone else?

 

I really don't see how listing the guy's credentials does anything to defend why he either completely missed the PED story for decades or willfully chose to ignore it or not pursue it. It's one of those three options. Which is it? Maybe we can give him a medal for whichever one it was since he did it so "well" for so long despite this being a gigantic open secret for decades.

 

He's a sports columnist not a detective. Attacking Telander is really making you look silly. And Nuts & Gum superior credential are?

 

credentials? what is this, checkpoint charlie? Telander is clearly out there stoking his ego. the entire damn column is sensationalism.

 

That is -- and let's get this straight, no misinterpretations allowed -- a cheater.

 

Forget his self-praised swing and talent and dedication.

 

C-H-E-A-T-E-R.

 

Is that clear?

 

And he still is.

 

really Telander? wow, thats profound.

[VVMattVV]

Does the Sun-Times ever employ sports journalists that don't suck?

[daske17]

The greatest fans on earth turn into the biggest bunch of mindless lemmings:

 

McLiar greeted with standing ovation

 

I've always hated the Cardinals and their fans, but this is absurd. What would possess a fanbase to support a player who cheated throughout his career and lie about it? Ugh, morons.

[ConstableRabbit]

TBFIB

[kujay]

And they booed Jack Clark when he appeared at the same event, because he had the courage to come out and speak his mind (the obvious truth) about McGwire and LaRussa.

 

Biggest rube fans in baseball. No question.

[daske17]

And they booed Jack Clark when he appeared at the same event, because he had the courage to come out and speak his mind (the obvious truth) about McGwire and LaRussa.

 

Biggest rube fans in baseball. No question.

 

It is good to know though, should you be a ballplayer who drives drunk, beats his wife or cheats religiously.

[Sammy Sofa]

The greatest fans on earth turn into the biggest bunch of mindless lemmings:

 

McLiar greeted with standing ovation

 

I've always hated the Cardinals and their fans, but this is absurd. What would possess a fanbase to support a player who cheated throughout his career and lie about it? Ugh, morons.

 

Because a ton of players have used PED's over the decades and everyone freakin' loved the Steroid Era when it was going down?

[daske17]

The greatest fans on earth turn into the biggest bunch of mindless lemmings:

 

McLiar greeted with standing ovation

 

I've always hated the Cardinals and their fans, but this is absurd. What would possess a fanbase to support a player who cheated throughout his career and lie about it? Ugh, morons.

 

Because a ton of players have used PED's over the decades and everyone freakin' loved the Steroid Era when it was going down?

 

so you mean to tell me that if Sosa admitted to steroid use and showed up at the Cubs Convention two weeks later, he should receive love and adulation from all in attendance?

[Sammy Sofa]

The greatest fans on earth turn into the biggest bunch of mindless lemmings:

 

McLiar greeted with standing ovation

 

I've always hated the Cardinals and their fans, but this is absurd. What would possess a fanbase to support a player who cheated throughout his career and lie about it? Ugh, morons.

 

Because a ton of players have used PED's over the decades and everyone freakin' loved the Steroid Era when it was going down?

 

so you mean to tell me that if Sosa admitted to steroid use and showed up at the Cubs Convention two weeks later, he should receive love and adulation from all in attendance?

 

Wouldn't bother me if he did. If I was there I'd be one of the ones cheering him on. If someone wants to look down on it, whatever, fine, but it shouldn't be a surprise that a lot of people still love these players.