Oh Dear God ESPN - Best defensive infielder of decade

[jersey cubs fan]

I'm not sure how much it matters that a guy didn't play the entire decade at a position. Bonds hasn't played in a few years but he's still the best hitter from this decade.

 

A guy should probably play more than a handful of games to qualify, but none of these names stand out as somebody who hasn't played enough to qualify. I just find it hard to believe that Utley is the best defensive 2B this decade has seen. If he is, then he's worth a bazillion times more than I already thought.

[CubbieBum]

I'm not sure how much it matters that a guy didn't play the entire decade at a position. Bonds hasn't played in a few years but he's still the best hitter from this decade.

 

A guy should probably play more than a handful of games to qualify, but none of these names stand out as somebody who hasn't played enough to qualify. I just find it hard to believe that Utley is the best defensive 2B this decade has seen. If he is, then he's worth a bazillion times more than I already thought.

 

I think you need to play a majority of the decade. Say the average player plays in 150 games a year. Multiply that by 5 and you get 750 games. You need to account for people ho pinch hit a lot or came off the bench early in their career. So I would then multiply that 750 by 9 to account for innings. That is 6750 innings.

 

Looking it up Utley play over 7100 innings this decade so I'm OK with him being one of the four choices.

[TruffleShuffle]

I'm not sure how much it matters that a guy didn't play the entire decade at a position. Bonds hasn't played in a few years but he's still the best hitter from this decade.

 

A guy should probably play more than a handful of games to qualify, but none of these names stand out as somebody who hasn't played enough to qualify. I just find it hard to believe that Utley is the best defensive 2B this decade has seen. If he is, then he's worth a bazillion times more than I already thought.

 

utley gets great jumps on batted balls, doesn't make many errors and is very smooth on the double play turn. if your impression of him is based on his defense in the playoffs, you're definitely going to underrate him. he got in a slump and made some uncharacteristic mistakes.

[jersey cubs fan]

 

utley gets great jumps on batted balls, doesn't make many errors and is very smooth on the double play turn. if your impression of him is based on his defense in the playoffs, you're definitely going to underrate him. he got in a slump and made some uncharacteristic mistakes.

 

My impression is what I thought I heard about him pre-playoffs.

[hardcorecubfan]

where is the true icon the infield (or at least Dusty's infield) Neifi??

[Chief_Cardinal]

After a little thought (but no research) I probably would have gone with either Polanco or Hudson at 2B. I'm positive I'm forgetting someone from the first half the decade, though...

 

I believe he took over full time at first in 04....with some time here and there before that...I would consider him a first basemen for most of the decade.

 

I want to say that i would take Helton over him though...then again...Helton is my favorite player so I may be biast.

 

Rolen I think is a no brainer....No convinced that Everett and Utley are the right choice....but noone jumps out at me as being better either.

[MADD_DOG_31]

Pujols is not near the best 1B in my opinion because he doesn't know how to play the position

 

1. he frequently goes too far off the base and tries to make plays that are routine for the 2B and cant get back

 

2. he catches throws frequently on the wrong side of the base and with the wrong foot

 

 

Some say he's a good 1B because of his range factor but his "range" is unnecessary, and no good 1B will ever have his range because they know how to play the position and won't unnecessarily steal routine balls from the 2B

[fromthestretch]

Pujols is not near the best 1B in my opinion because he doesn't know how to play the position

 

1. he frequently goes too far off the base and tries to make plays that are routine for the 2B and cant get back

 

2. he catches throws frequently on the wrong side of the base and with the wrong foot

 

 

Some say he's a good 1B because of his range factor but his "range" is unnecessary, and no good 1B will ever have his range because they know how to play the position and won't unnecessarily steal routine balls from the 2B

 

Perhaps he knew he was playing next to a second baseman who had never played that position in nine years as a professional ballplayer. In fact, the only time Schumaker ever spent in the infield amounted to six games as a third baseman in the minors in 2004. What might be routine for Chase Utley might not be routine for Schumaker. As long as his pitchers are doing their job and covering the bag on a ball hit to the right side, there's nothing wrong with Pujols taking charge on a grounder hit between him and a very inexperienced second baseman.

 

As for catching throws on the wrong side of the base, if the throw is off target (especially to his left), many first basemen will step back and take the throw behind the bag to avoid trying to catch it in the path of the runner. It's not uncommon at all.

 

And range for a first baseman certainly isn't "unnecessary".

[bukie]

Everett is the easiest no-brainer of the whole group. Far and away the best defensive SS of the decade, overall and on a per-year basis.

 

However, the question of "best defensive infielder of the decade" using a comparison of highest UZR from each of the four infield positions is a little silly, because SS are usually the best defenders in the infield (that's why they're at SS), so comparing Everett to, say, Pujols is a little silly.

 

Utley comes out great in UZR ratings, as well as Rolen. Pujols is closest, and Mientkiewicz was actually the best defensive 1B based on a per-year basis, but Pujols played first base more.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Perhaps he knew he was playing next to a second baseman who had never played that position in nine years as a professional ballplayer. In fact, the only time Schumaker ever spent in the infield amounted to six games as a third baseman in the minors in 2004. What might be routine for Chase Utley might not be routine for Schumaker. As long as his pitchers are doing their job and covering the bag on a ball hit to the right side, there's nothing wrong with Pujols taking charge on a grounder hit between him and a very inexperienced second baseman.

 

For better or worse, Pujols has been ranging far to his right long before Schumaker played 2nd base.

[fromthestretch]

Perhaps he knew he was playing next to a second baseman who had never played that position in nine years as a professional ballplayer. In fact, the only time Schumaker ever spent in the infield amounted to six games as a third baseman in the minors in 2004. What might be routine for Chase Utley might not be routine for Schumaker. As long as his pitchers are doing their job and covering the bag on a ball hit to the right side, there's nothing wrong with Pujols taking charge on a grounder hit between him and a very inexperienced second baseman.

 

For better or worse, Pujols has been ranging far to his right long before Schumaker played 2nd base.

 

I personally see little problem with it, provided that his pitchers are doing their job covering the bag. If he is regularly diving to his right to cut off what would be a routine play for the second baseman, then I could see where you'd want to discourage that. But if he can backhand the ball fairly easily, I don't see the issue.

[Sammys Boombox]

Pujols is not near the best 1B in my opinion because he doesn't know how to play the position

 

1. he frequently goes too far off the base and tries to make plays that are routine for the 2B and cant get back

 

2. he catches throws frequently on the wrong side of the base and with the wrong foot

 

 

Some say he's a good 1B because of his range factor but his "range" is unnecessary, and no good 1B will ever have his range because they know how to play the position and won't unnecessarily steal routine balls from the 2B

 

I point this out all the time, Pujols has horrible footwork and it causes him to not make scoops on bad throws that he should be able to get to.

[TruffleShuffle]

i'm trying to figure out how pujols keeps grading out as one of the best first basemen in baseball since apparently his footwork sucks, doesn't make scoops well and in general doesn't know how to play the position properly.

[MADD_DOG_31]

Perhaps he knew he was playing next to a second baseman who had never played that position in nine years as a professional ballplayer. In fact, the only time Schumaker ever spent in the infield amounted to six games as a third baseman in the minors in 2004. What might be routine for Chase Utley might not be routine for Schumaker. As long as his pitchers are doing their job and covering the bag on a ball hit to the right side, there's nothing wrong with Pujols taking charge on a grounder hit between him and a very inexperienced second baseman.

 

For better or worse, Pujols has been ranging far to his right long before Schumaker played 2nd base.

 

Yes, like since he's moved there.....some people are apologists and will never see beyond stats, and fielding stats are a completely ridiculous means of judging a person in the field

 

Like when you look at Derrek Lee's "fielding stats" you don't see his length or almost flawless scooping ability as well you dont see that he is a little slow to his right and doesn't stretch as well as some

 

I'm sure someone will race in here saying UZR factors this and that or some other bogus stat but its all bs.....only way to judge a fielder is by watching on a daily basis in person.....and i come from a family that when stretched to 2nd cousins has 6 scouts in it, but im sure you dont think they know anything either

[woodchip2153]

Perhaps he knew he was playing next to a second baseman who had never played that position in nine years as a professional ballplayer. In fact, the only time Schumaker ever spent in the infield amounted to six games as a third baseman in the minors in 2004. What might be routine for Chase Utley might not be routine for Schumaker. As long as his pitchers are doing their job and covering the bag on a ball hit to the right side, there's nothing wrong with Pujols taking charge on a grounder hit between him and a very inexperienced second baseman.

 

For better or worse, Pujols has been ranging far to his right long before Schumaker played 2nd base.

 

Yes, like since he's moved there.....some people are apologists and will never see beyond stats, and fielding stats are a completely ridiculous means of judging a person in the field

 

Like when you look at Derrek Lee's "fielding stats" you don't see his length or almost flawless scooping ability as well you dont see that he is a little slow to his right and doesn't stretch as well as some

 

I'm sure someone will race in here saying UZR factors this and that or some other bogus stat but its all bs.....only way to judge a fielder is by watching on a daily basis in person.....and i come from a family that when stretched to 2nd cousins has 6 scouts in it, but im sure you dont think they know anything either

 

you're right, probably the best way to judge a fielder is by watching him on a daily basis in person. Unfortunately this is impossible and that's why we need to use things like UZR and Dewey's +/- in conjunction with the scouting reports (when available) to determine a players value on defense. When things like hit f/x and fielder f/x are installed in every park defensive metrics will take a huge leap forward.

 

1B and Catcher are the positions UZR struggles with the most because it doesn't know how to handle "scoops" or balls blocked in the dirt.

[MADD_DOG_31]

Perhaps he knew he was playing next to a second baseman who had never played that position in nine years as a professional ballplayer. In fact, the only time Schumaker ever spent in the infield amounted to six games as a third baseman in the minors in 2004. What might be routine for Chase Utley might not be routine for Schumaker. As long as his pitchers are doing their job and covering the bag on a ball hit to the right side, there's nothing wrong with Pujols taking charge on a grounder hit between him and a very inexperienced second baseman.

 

For better or worse, Pujols has been ranging far to his right long before Schumaker played 2nd base.

 

Yes, like since he's moved there.....some people are apologists and will never see beyond stats, and fielding stats are a completely ridiculous means of judging a person in the field

 

Like when you look at Derrek Lee's "fielding stats" you don't see his length or almost flawless scooping ability as well you dont see that he is a little slow to his right and doesn't stretch as well as some

 

I'm sure someone will race in here saying UZR factors this and that or some other bogus stat but its all bs.....only way to judge a fielder is by watching on a daily basis in person.....and i come from a family that when stretched to 2nd cousins has 6 scouts in it, but im sure you dont think they know anything either

 

you're right, probably the best way to judge a fielder is by watching him on a daily basis in person. Unfortunately this is impossible and that's why we need to use things like UZR and Dewey's +/- in conjunction with the scouting reports (when available) to determine a players value on defense. When things like hit f/x and fielder f/x are installed in every park defensive metrics will take a huge leap forward.

 

1B and Catcher are the positions UZR struggles with the most because it doesn't know how to handle "scoops" or balls blocked in the dirt.

 

Totally agree....UZR is worthless for those 2 positions especially

[SouthSideRyan]

 

1B and Catcher are the positions UZR struggles with the most because it doesn't know how to handle "scoops" or balls blocked in the dirt.

 

It doesn't struggle with them, it's virtually worthless with them.

[fromthestretch]

Like when you look at Derrek Lee's "fielding stats" you don't see his length or almost flawless scooping ability

 

Even the worst first basemen can scoop most short-hop throws out of the dirt. It's not that difficult of a skill to learn.