Jacoby Ellsbury

[Sever82]

The guy isn't just a normal base stealer, he stole 70 last year. Sometimes you have to look past OPS. I would trade quite a bit for him.

 

Ellsbury's baserunning was worth about 5.6 runs last year, total. 7.5 runs year before last. His total offensive contributions (batting and baserunning) are in Kosuke territory, given about the same amount of PA. And last year at least, UZR had him as one of the worst defensive CF in baseball (along with Kosuke, Fowler, and Wells)

 

How many of our top prospects would you give up for another Kosuke?

 

But, wouldn't you expect Ellsbury to still get better, given his age? Add in his cost factor and I think he'd be a very welcome addition, especially given our payroll situation. That said, I don't see us going after him, nor San Diego wanting to part with him, IF they even acquire him.

 

He's 26, so he's just entering his prime. Still, his swing and body aren't exactly conducive to adding a bunch of power and from what I've seen, it seems the big green monster is responsible for a nice chunk of his doubles power already. So do I see him getting better? No, not significantly.

 

Ellsbury is a nice little player, I'm not trying to deny him that. However, the marginal value that he provides over somebody like Fuld simply isn't worth the cost in prospects it would take to acquire him. In all likelihood the Cubs would be best served to hold onto those trade chips and wait til midseason to see if a better player doesn't become available.

 

 

I think that if the Cubs are still looking for a leadoff option next year, they should go hard at Carl Crawford unless crawford signs an extension before next offseason.

[Rob]

I still think it's silly to focus on leadoff as though it were a position, but Crawford would be somebody worth going after in the offseason. He's two years older than Ellsbury, but is pretty much better across the board and would only cost money.

[Clem Fandango]

I still think it's silly to focus on leadoff as though it were a position, but Crawford would be somebody worth going after in the offseason. He's two years older than Ellsbury, but is pretty much better across the board and would only cost money.

 

Not to mention we have a good chunk of money coming off the books after this coming season, unless Hendry decides to extend Lee and Lilly again before the season is over. Also have Aramis' salary potentially coming off the books if he opts out. If all 3 leave after the seaosn that's $40 mil off the books. There should be no reason not to consider Crawford in the offseason if that happens assuming, like you said, that Tampa doesn't extend him

[17 Seconds]

I still think it's silly to focus on leadoff as though it were a position, but Crawford would be somebody worth going after in the offseason. He's two years older than Ellsbury, but is pretty much better across the board and would only cost money.

 

Not to mention we have a good chunk of money coming off the books after this coming season, unless Hendry decides to extend Lee and Lilly again before the season is over. Also have Aramis' salary potentially coming off the books if he opts out. If all 3 leave after the seaosn that's $40 mil off the books. There should be no reason not to consider Crawford in the offseason if that happens assuming, like you said, that Tampa doesn't extend him

 

if all 3 of those guys leave we're going to have a lot of holes though

 

it sucks because the contracts that are coming off the books are the good contracts, the ones you don't want to end.

[davearm2]

I still think it's silly to focus on leadoff as though it were a position, but Crawford would be somebody worth going after in the offseason. He's two years older than Ellsbury, but is pretty much better across the board and would only cost money.

 

Not to mention we have a good chunk of money coming off the books after this coming season, unless Hendry decides to extend Lee and Lilly again before the season is over. Also have Aramis' salary potentially coming off the books if he opts out. If all 3 leave after the seaosn that's $40 mil off the books. There should be no reason not to consider Crawford in the offseason if that happens assuming, like you said, that Tampa doesn't extend him

 

if all 3 of those guys leave we're going to have a lot of holes though

 

it sucks because the contracts that are coming off the books are the good contracts, the ones you don't want to end.

Wait, so Hendry entered into several *good* contracts? I thought your whole schtick is that he is a completely incompetent, overspending boob incapable of such a thing.

 

That detail aside, if the Cubs want to continue paying Lee $13M/yr and Lilly $12M/yr on those good contracts, I'm quite confident their only question will be, "where do I sign?"

[17 Seconds]

I still think it's silly to focus on leadoff as though it were a position, but Crawford would be somebody worth going after in the offseason. He's two years older than Ellsbury, but is pretty much better across the board and would only cost money.

 

Not to mention we have a good chunk of money coming off the books after this coming season, unless Hendry decides to extend Lee and Lilly again before the season is over. Also have Aramis' salary potentially coming off the books if he opts out. If all 3 leave after the seaosn that's $40 mil off the books. There should be no reason not to consider Crawford in the offseason if that happens assuming, like you said, that Tampa doesn't extend him

 

if all 3 of those guys leave we're going to have a lot of holes though

 

it sucks because the contracts that are coming off the books are the good contracts, the ones you don't want to end.

Wait, so Hendry entered into several *good* contracts? I thought your whole schtick is that he is a completely incompetent, overspending boob incapable of such a thing.

 

 

yeah, i always have said that hendry has never given out a good contract, right? your posts don't even make sense anymore. you're just making garbage up. then when i call you on it (like how you claimed i said 2/15 for cameron was good just because rob said it... even though i said it before rob said it) you don't say anything.

 

anyways, i can name plenty of really good moves hendry has made. harden, ramirez, lee, derosa, lilly, barrett, nomar..... i've never said that jim hendry is incapable of making good moves, and i've never said that he's close to the worst gm in baseball (unless I was obviously joking).

[Clem Fandango]

I still think it's silly to focus on leadoff as though it were a position, but Crawford would be somebody worth going after in the offseason. He's two years older than Ellsbury, but is pretty much better across the board and would only cost money.

 

Not to mention we have a good chunk of money coming off the books after this coming season, unless Hendry decides to extend Lee and Lilly again before the season is over. Also have Aramis' salary potentially coming off the books if he opts out. If all 3 leave after the seaosn that's $40 mil off the books. There should be no reason not to consider Crawford in the offseason if that happens assuming, like you said, that Tampa doesn't extend him

 

if all 3 of those guys leave we're going to have a lot of holes though

 

it sucks because the contracts that are coming off the books are the good contracts, the ones you don't want to end.

 

I don't know if I'd care if Lilly or Lee left after their contracts. Aramis will probably hurt if he leaves, considering Vitters probably won't be ready for at least another year, but you never know. It would create some holes, but it would open up the pocketbook quite a bit, and there are several really nice potential free agents (though most of them will likely get extended/have their options picked up in reality).

 

Here is a list of the premier/big name potential free agents after next season (according to Cot's): Lance Berkman, Carlos Pena, Albert Pujols, Derek Jeter, Johnny Peralta, Jose Reyes, Jimmy Rollins, Garrett Atkins, Jorge Cantu, Victor Martinez, Joe Mauer, Carl Crawford Michael Cuddyer, Adam Dunn, Jermaine Dye, Brad Hawpe, Magglio Ordonez, Jayson Werth, Josh Beckett, Matt Cain, Aaron Harang, Tim Hudson, Cliff Lee, Javier Vasquez, Brandon Webb, Chris Young, Brian Fuentes, J.J. Putz, Chad Qualls, Mariano Rivera, Scot Shields, Huston Street, Kerry Wood.

 

Obviously a pretty sizable chunk of those guys will have their options picked up and/or be extended, but that's what the potential free agent class looks like. It's pretty nice. With a possible $40 million off the books, we could find some nice players. Maybe not to replace, but to fill other weak positions will finding stopgaps to replace the new holes... sign Mauer, trade Soto for a 1B :)

[Guest]

I still think it's silly to focus on leadoff as though it were a position, but Crawford would be somebody worth going after in the offseason. He's two years older than Ellsbury, but is pretty much better across the board and would only cost money.

 

Not to mention we have a good chunk of money coming off the books after this coming season, unless Hendry decides to extend Lee and Lilly again before the season is over. Also have Aramis' salary potentially coming off the books if he opts out. If all 3 leave after the seaosn that's $40 mil off the books. There should be no reason not to consider Crawford in the offseason if that happens assuming, like you said, that Tampa doesn't extend him

 

if all 3 of those guys leave we're going to have a lot of holes though

 

it sucks because the contracts that are coming off the books are the good contracts, the ones you don't want to end.

 

I don't know if I'd care if Lilly or Lee left after their contracts. Aramis will probably hurt if he leaves, considering Vitters probably won't be ready for at least another year, but you never know. It would create some holes, but it would open up the pocketbook quite a bit, and there are several really nice potential free agents (though most of them will likely get extended/have their options picked up in reality).

 

Here is a list of the premier/big name potential free agents after next season (according to Cot's): Lance Berkman, Carlos Pena, Albert Pujols, Derek Jeter, Johnny Peralta, Jose Reyes, Jimmy Rollins, Garrett Atkins, Jorge Cantu, Victor Martinez, Joe Mauer, Carl Crawford Michael Cuddyer, Adam Dunn, Jermaine Dye, Brad Hawpe, Magglio Ordonez, Jayson Werth, Josh Beckett, Matt Cain, Aaron Harang, Tim Hudson, Cliff Lee, Javier Vasquez, Brandon Webb, Chris Young, Brian Fuentes, J.J. Putz, Chad Qualls, Mariano Rivera, Scot Shields, Huston Street, Kerry Wood.

 

Obviously a pretty sizable chunk of those guys will have their options picked up and/or be extended, but that's what the potential free agent class looks like. It's pretty nice. With a possible $40 million off the books, we could find some nice players. Maybe not to replace, but to fill other weak positions will finding stopgaps to replace the new holes... sign Mauer, trade Soto for a 1B :)

 

While I agree that it would be nice to have 40m to spend (I'd actually have to be shown that a sizeable chunk of that 40m isn't actually going to raises to several players), if they don't win this year with that 40m spent, why should the new owner spend another 40m on the payroll?

 

Occasionally, one needs to justify why spending 140m is actually better than spending 100m.

Right now, Hendry can't do that.

[MSG T]

I still think it's silly to focus on leadoff as though it were a position, but Crawford would be somebody worth going after in the offseason. He's two years older than Ellsbury, but is pretty much better across the board and would only cost money.

 

Not to mention we have a good chunk of money coming off the books after this coming season, unless Hendry decides to extend Lee and Lilly again before the season is over. Also have Aramis' salary potentially coming off the books if he opts out. If all 3 leave after the seaosn that's $40 mil off the books. There should be no reason not to consider Crawford in the offseason if that happens assuming, like you said, that Tampa doesn't extend him

 

if all 3 of those guys leave we're going to have a lot of holes though

 

it sucks because the contracts that are coming off the books are the good contracts, the ones you don't want to end.

 

I don't know if I'd care if Lilly or Lee left after their contracts. Aramis will probably hurt if he leaves, considering Vitters probably won't be ready for at least another year, but you never know. It would create some holes, but it would open up the pocketbook quite a bit, and there are several really nice potential free agents (though most of them will likely get extended/have their options picked up in reality).

 

Here is a list of the premier/big name potential free agents after next season (according to Cot's): Lance Berkman, Carlos Pena, Albert Pujols, Derek Jeter, Johnny Peralta, Jose Reyes, Jimmy Rollins, Garrett Atkins, Jorge Cantu, Victor Martinez, Joe Mauer, Carl Crawford Michael Cuddyer, Adam Dunn, Jermaine Dye, Brad Hawpe, Magglio Ordonez, Jayson Werth, Josh Beckett, Matt Cain, Aaron Harang, Tim Hudson, Cliff Lee, Javier Vasquez, Brandon Webb, Chris Young, Brian Fuentes, J.J. Putz, Chad Qualls, Mariano Rivera, Scot Shields, Huston Street, Kerry Wood.

 

Obviously a pretty sizable chunk of those guys will have their options picked up and/or be extended, but that's what the potential free agent class looks like. It's pretty nice. With a possible $40 million off the books, we could find some nice players. Maybe not to replace, but to fill other weak positions will finding stopgaps to replace the new holes... sign Mauer, trade Soto for a 1B :)

 

There's about 4 guys on that list I'd target. Pujols, Crawford, Mauer and Cain. With the available funds, they should be able to get 2. If they couldn't get Pujols (most likely they don't), that leaves the other three, I'd either-

 

Try to extend/resign Aramis for say 3/$40-45 then move him to 1B when Vitters is ready, and hope that Vitters can get to Chicago. That leaves roughly$25-30 mil per year. Try to get Crawford and Cain, but at least one of them.

 

or

 

Try to get Mauer, and move one of the two (most likely Soto) to 1B. Or even platoon them between 1B and C. That keeps both bats in the lineup and both fresh behind the plate. Then try to get either Crawford or Cain.

 

Unfortunately, my guess is at least 2 extend with their teams prior to becoming FA.

[fromthestretch]

Here is a list of the premier/big name potential free agents after next season (according to Cot's): Lance Berkman, Carlos Pena, Albert Pujols, Derek Jeter, Johnny Peralta, Jose Reyes, Jimmy Rollins, Garrett Atkins, Jorge Cantu, Victor Martinez, Joe Mauer, Carl Crawford Michael Cuddyer, Adam Dunn, Jermaine Dye, Brad Hawpe, Magglio Ordonez, Jayson Werth, Josh Beckett, Matt Cain, Aaron Harang, Tim Hudson, Cliff Lee, Javier Vasquez, Brandon Webb, Chris Young, Brian Fuentes, J.J. Putz, Chad Qualls, Mariano Rivera, Scot Shields, Huston Street, Kerry Wood.

 

Hudson isn't a free agent until after the 2012 season.

[Clem Fandango]

Here is a list of the premier/big name potential free agents after next season (according to Cot's): Lance Berkman, Carlos Pena, Albert Pujols, Derek Jeter, Johnny Peralta, Jose Reyes, Jimmy Rollins, Garrett Atkins, Jorge Cantu, Victor Martinez, Joe Mauer, Carl Crawford Michael Cuddyer, Adam Dunn, Jermaine Dye, Brad Hawpe, Magglio Ordonez, Jayson Werth, Josh Beckett, Matt Cain, Aaron Harang, Tim Hudson, Cliff Lee, Javier Vasquez, Brandon Webb, Chris Young, Brian Fuentes, J.J. Putz, Chad Qualls, Mariano Rivera, Scot Shields, Huston Street, Kerry Wood.

 

Hudson isn't a free agent until after the 2012 season.

 

Then Cot's hasn't updated the 2011 FA List. He was on there. I noticed some other people like Roy Halladay on there too.

[Little Slide Rooter]

The guy isn't just a normal base stealer, he stole 70 last year. Sometimes you have to look past OPS. I would trade quite a bit for him.

 

I agree. With the heart of the order hitters, OPS is important, but with a leadoff man, Ill take a high avg and OBP, especially if they can steal bases like Ellsbury. However, I dont know if Id be willing to give up Vitters+1 of Jax or Cash. Maybe Vitters+Lee, considering the similar aged midle infield talent we have on the farm, and throw in another mid level prospect or major league ready guy like Colvin, Marshall, Shark, Fontenot etc.

[scarey]

Why is it that so many people are enamored with the idea of signing a corner outfielder after 2010 that will be turning 29 and to this point has a career OBP of .335 and OPS of .772?

[Old Style]

Why is it that so many people are enamored with the idea of signing a corner outfielder after 2010 that will be turning 29 and to this point has a career OBP of .335 and OPS of .772?

Who is this player to which you are referring?

[fromthestretch]

Why is it that so many people are enamored with the idea of signing a corner outfielder after 2010 that will be turning 29 and to this point has a career OBP of .335 and OPS of .772?

Who is this player to which you are referring?

 

I believe he's talking about Crawford.

[Sever82]

Speaking of Ellsbury, would you guys to a trade of Dice K and Ellsbury for Zambrano?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Why is it that so many people are enamored with the idea of signing a corner outfielder after 2010 that will be turning 29 and to this point has a career OBP of .335 and OPS of .772?

 

Because the last 4 years he's averaged an .800 OPS to go with 50 steals at 80+% and elite defense.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Speaking of Ellsbury, would you guys to a trade of Dice K and Ellsbury for Zambrano?

 

If only Theo Epstein were a moron.

[scarey]

Why is it that so many people are enamored with the idea of signing a corner outfielder after 2010 that will be turning 29 and to this point has a career OBP of .335 and OPS of .772?

 

Because the last 4 years he's averaged an .800 OPS to go with 50 steals at 80+% and elite defense.

 

 

Again, this is a corner outfielder we're talking about. Sure, he's better than Fukudome, but not nearly as great as he's been made out to be. We should expect more than an .800 OPS from a corner outfielder.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Why is it that so many people are enamored with the idea of signing a corner outfielder after 2010 that will be turning 29 and to this point has a career OBP of .335 and OPS of .772?

 

Because the last 4 years he's averaged an .800 OPS to go with 50 steals at 80+% and elite defense.

 

 

Again, this is a corner outfielder we're talking about. Sure, he's better than Fukudome, but not nearly as great as he's been made out to be. We should expect more than an .800 OPS from a corner outfielder.

 

The stolen bases and the defense make him extremely valuable. He was a 5 win player last year, that's about top 5 for all outfielders.

[Sever82]

Speaking of Ellsbury, would you guys to a trade of Dice K and Ellsbury for Zambrano?

 

If only Theo Epstein were a moron.

 

I dont think its that bad of a trade. Sorry but Ellsbury isn't exactly Carl Crawford and Dice K isn't coming off of a bad season.

[Post Count Padder]

Speaking of Ellsbury, would you guys to a trade of Dice K and Ellsbury for Zambrano?

I would. The Sox wouldn't.

[scarey]

Why is it that so many people are enamored with the idea of signing a corner outfielder after 2010 that will be turning 29 and to this point has a career OBP of .335 and OPS of .772?

 

Because the last 4 years he's averaged an .800 OPS to go with 50 steals at 80+% and elite defense.

 

 

Again, this is a corner outfielder we're talking about. Sure, he's better than Fukudome, but not nearly as great as he's been made out to be. We should expect more than an .800 OPS from a corner outfielder.

 

The stolen bases and the defense make him extremely valuable. He was a 5 win player last year, that's about top 5 for all outfielders.

 

His AVG driven OBP does not concern you?

[NCCubFan]

I dont think its that bad of a trade. Sorry but Ellsbury isn't exactly Carl Crawford and Dice K isn't coming off of a bad season.

He isn't?

[17 Seconds]

I dont think its that bad of a trade. Sorry but Ellsbury isn't exactly Carl Crawford and Dice K isn't coming off of a bad season.

He isn't?

 

haha