Re: Bears Offseason Thread

[Hairyducked Idiot]

They were 15th in offense and 5th in defense in 2006 and were the best team in the NFC.

 

We don't have the greatest special teams in the history of the game this season.

[jersey cubs fan]

They were 15th in offense and 5th in defense in 2006 and were the best team in the NFC.

 

We don't have the greatest special teams in the history of the game this season.

 

Right, but that was the best team in the NFC. My point is 15/8/5 should still be good enough to stay in contention.

[tfarks]

If the Bears can only muster an average offensive attack the Bears D will have to enter top 5 status in defense to make some noise. Not gonna happen.

 

No way. An average offensive attack will allow much more leeway than a top 5 defense.

 

Look at the playoff teams from year to year. I've seen this data compiled. If your offense is ~15 and that team was successful most of the time the D was in the top 5 or close. Maybe top 10 but then you're starting to push it and the chances of playoffs drops significantly.

 

If the Bears are 15th in offense and 8th in defense, I have a hard time thinking they won't be able to "make some noise". They were 15th in offense and 5th in defense in 2006 and were the best team in the NFC. Arizona had an average offense and average defense and won 10 games + their division.

 

They can't get away with below average on either side, since they aren't likely to be good enough on the other to make up for it. But an average offense and an above average defense will give them a shot and doing good things, especially with top special teams.

 

Well, don't run off with "making noise" I'm saying getting to the playoffs and winning games. Being a playoff team and then being successful, not winning lackluster divisions. And the 2006 Bears prove my point to a tee. If you have one average unit, you generally need a top 5 or close as the other. Not taking into account special teams. There are many other examples of this outside of the 2006 Bears.

 

Also, hovering in the Top 10 in both units are also consistently successful in the playoffs. If the Bears are 15th in offense and 8th in defense then they certainly have a shot but generally one of those units need to be elite, or both above average to set yourself apart. They might sneak in the playoffs but won't get very far barring some luck.

[jersey cubs fan]

And the 2006 Bears prove my point to a tee. If you have one average unit, you generally need a top 5 or close as the other.

 

That doesn't prove your point at all. That was the best team in the league. You don't have to be the best team in the league to make the playoffs and win some. Sure, they may struggle to win or make a Super Bowl. But let's not pretend you aren't making noise if you aren't in the Super Bowl.

 

Also, hovering in the Top 10 in both units are also consistently successful in the playoffs. If the Bears are 15th in offense and 8th in defense then they certainly have a shot but generally one of those units need to be elite, or both above average to set yourself apart. They might sneak in the playoffs but won't get very far barring some luck.

 

And so? That's my point. It was suggested that an average offense would require nothing short of a top 5 defense. 10-6 and a playoff win would have to be considered a successful season and should be applauded. You don't need a top 5 defense to pull that off.

[tfarks]

And the 2006 Bears prove my point to a tee. If you have one average unit, you generally need a top 5 or close as the other.

 

That doesn't prove your point at all. That was the best team in the league. You don't have to be the best team in the league to make the playoffs and win some. Sure, they may struggle to win or make a Super Bowl. But let's not pretend you aren't making noise if you aren't in the Super Bowl.

 

Also, hovering in the Top 10 in both units are also consistently successful in the playoffs. If the Bears are 15th in offense and 8th in defense then they certainly have a shot but generally one of those units need to be elite, or both above average to set yourself apart. They might sneak in the playoffs but won't get very far barring some luck.

 

And so? That's my point. It was suggested that an average offense would require nothing short of a top 5 defense. 10-6 and a playoff win would have to be considered a successful season and should be applauded. You don't need a top 5 defense to pull that off.

 

Wow. That is a horrible response. They were the best team in the league because of an elite unit that propped up an average one (MY POINT EXACTLY). And quit talking about noise. Of course you're making noise if you aren't in the Super Bowl, but again you're arguing a turn of phrase that was not specific.

 

As far as your 2nd point. Again, terrible. My point was that if you want to win the Super Bowl, time and time again it is teams that have 1 elite unit (15-5) or 2 above average units (10-10). Average and top 5 is MY point. Your point is to ramble off on some nonsense on what you consider to be making noise, then proving my point again by saying they can have a 15-8 unit and get into the playoffs. SO WHAT?? Playoff teams that get beat are the ones with team stats just like that, as they lose to teams with elite units or 2 above average ones. Geez.

 

Yes, let's please keep talking about noise and applauding successful seasons. Are you following anything here?

[jersey cubs fan]

Yes, let's please keep talking about noise and applauding successful seasons. Are you following anything here?

 

Yes, it seems clear now that you realize you made a baseless claim and no longer wish to defend it.

[tfarks]

Yes, let's please keep talking about noise and applauding successful seasons. Are you following anything here?

 

Yes, it seems clear now that you realize you made a baseless claim and no longer wish to defend it.

 

Fantastic. You misconstrued "making noise" to mean what you wanted, argue incorrectly by only verifying my point further, and then refusing to admit my undeniable correctitude.

 

This is fun.

[ConstableRabbit]

To be fair, if Jersey misinterpreted "make some noise," then so did I.

 

To me, "make some noise" doesn't mean "be one of the top few teams in the league." It means surprising some people and maybe winning a game or two in the playoffs.

[jersey cubs fan]

Yes, let's please keep talking about noise and applauding successful seasons. Are you following anything here?

 

Yes, it seems clear now that you realize you made a baseless claim and no longer wish to defend it.

 

Fantastic. You misconstrued "making noise" to mean what you wanted, argue incorrectly by only verifying my point further, and then refusing to admit my undeniable correctitude.

 

This is fun.

 

Would you care to define make some noise?

[tfarks]

Yes, let's please keep talking about noise and applauding successful seasons. Are you following anything here?

 

Yes, it seems clear now that you realize you made a baseless claim and no longer wish to defend it.

 

Fantastic. You misconstrued "making noise" to mean what you wanted, argue incorrectly by only verifying my point further, and then refusing to admit my undeniable correctitude.

 

This is fun.

 

Would you care to define make some noise?

 

Winning playoff games. The whole entire point of the season thing. Do you really think I meant they need a top 5 elite defense to win a wildcard and lose in the 1st round?

[tfarks]

To be fair, if Jersey misinterpreted "make some noise," then so did I.

 

To me, "make some noise" doesn't mean "be one of the top few teams in the league." It means surprising some people and maybe winning a game or two in the playoffs.

 

 

Simply fixed by asking one to expand on what that meant, which jersey only manages to accomplish after he argues worthlessly on a point that was never made, other than in his head.

 

The top 15/5 and top 10/10 teams don't have trouble making the playoffs. They are the type of teams that end up winning the Super Bowl. Once you fall out of that category, say 15/8, then your chances of making the playoffs drop, much less winning playoff games and competing for the championship.

 

If you wanted to you could say making noise means a lot of things, its open to interpretation. Rawaction said he agreed if making noise meant championship contention. Which I did. He didn't know for sure, but he didn't put words in my mouth either.

[jersey cubs fan]

Winning playoff games. The whole entire point of the season thing. Do you really think I meant they need a top 5 elite defense to win a wildcard and lose in the 1st round?

 

Again, I fail to see how your claim is accurate that they cannot win a playoff game with something like the 15th best offense and the 8th best defense.

[tfarks]

Winning playoff games. The whole entire point of the season thing. Do you really think I meant they need a top 5 elite defense to win a wildcard and lose in the 1st round?

 

Again, I fail to see how your claim is accurate that they cannot win a playoff game with something like the 15th best offense and the 8th best defense.

 

Well, that's rather sad. Because once again, I never said they couldn't win a playoff game.

 

If the Bears are 15th in offense and 8th in defense then they certainly have a shot but generally one of those units need to be elite, or both above average to set yourself apart. They might sneak in the playoffs but won't get very far barring some luck.

 

Their chances with a 15/8 team would make them less likely to make the playoffs, and less likely to win once in the playoffs. I'm sure ~15/8 teams get in, but how many win their playoff games and make it to the championship? Winning one, sure. And who knows what else is possible on a given run. I'm just talking about the odds here. I never once claimed the Bears couldn't win a playoff game with a 15/8 squad.

 

My comment you quoted above was directed at your inherent need to define what other people are saying to argue a non-existent point. If I had said they would need an elite defensive unit to "make noise" meaning 1 possible playoff victory, that wouldn't make any sense.

[hawkeyecub]

Isaac Bruce wasn't all that great until the Martz/Warner years. The vast majority of WR are a product of their surroundings.

 

Isaac Bruce had career highs in catches (119), yards (1,781) and TD's (13) his second year in the league. He followed that up with 1,338 yards in his third year and averaged 16 yards per reception. He was then banged up for the next two years and only played 17 total games before the Martz/Warner years.

 

His point still holds in some cases though. There are guys who just work within a certain system. You could see a decent-but-not-great guy on the Bears put up big numbers for a year or two if everything clicks. Sustaining it for many years is likely more the realm of the truly great.

 

Of course. The Bears WR's will put up good numbers because of the amount of targets they get and the fact that Martz knows the passing game. They're talented enough to put up really nice stats in that offense with a super talented QB. His Lions WR's compiled numbers because of that, although they weren't overly efficient and took a ton of sacks.

 

I'm just saying Bruce and Holt were great talents who were picked 6 and 33 and Bruce had his best season before that. Having them combined with hall of famers at LT and RB along with his development of Warner into a hall of famer was what obviously made that offense.

[Soul]

Understood. And I still think OL is an area where we will struggle.

[jersey cubs fan]

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/05/bears-sign-third-round-pick-wright-to-four-year-deal.html

 

Wright signed, now all picks are done.

[jersey cubs fan]

From Bears website.

 

LM: How is rookie safety Major Wright progressing and do you see him winning a starting job?

 

JA: He’s billed as advertised.

 

Billed as advertised? Isn't that just saying he's advertised as advartised?

 

He’s a great kid who’s very competitive. He brings a lot of emotion and energy to the group, which is great to see. He’s getting better with each practice. There’s going to be a learning curve at all positions for rookies, probably more so in the secondary because there’s much more going on at the safety position. But he’s doing a fine job. The coaches are very pleased with the way he’s progressing, particularly with his work habits. In terms of whether he’ll start this season, the players and coaches will determine that, but we’re very excited about seeing him in pads.

[Guest]

Not even any puff pieces coming out of camp so far?

[Keener98]

Not even any puff pieces coming out of camp so far?

 

Plenty. Ive read about Fortes "speed" being back, and the depth at linebackers in the last 2 days.

[Guest]

Not even any puff pieces coming out of camp so far?

 

Plenty. Ive read about Fortes "speed" being back, and the depth at linebackers in the last 2 days.

That's better. :)

 

I gotta believe there's stuff out there on how Cutler is taking to the new system like a fish to water, the receivers look great, yada yada yada

[David]

Not even any puff pieces coming out of camp so far?

 

Plenty. Ive read about Fortes "speed" being back, and the depth at linebackers in the last 2 days.

That's better. :)

 

I gotta believe there's stuff out there on how Cutler is taking to the new system like a fish to water, the receivers look great, yada yada yada

 

 

Actually, it's mostly cautious optimism that they're seeing gradual improvement day by day learning the offense. The fluff pieces have been about the defense dominating and the secondary getting lots of picks. Not kidding.

[Guest]

Not even any puff pieces coming out of camp so far?

 

Plenty. Ive read about Fortes "speed" being back, and the depth at linebackers in the last 2 days.

That's better. :)

 

I gotta believe there's stuff out there on how Cutler is taking to the new system like a fish to water, the receivers look great, yada yada yada

 

 

Actually, it's mostly cautious optimism that they're seeing gradual improvement day by day learning the offense. The fluff pieces have been about the defense dominating and the secondary getting lots of picks. Not kidding.

Shouldn't the defense dominate when the offense is trying to learn a new system? :)

[Banedon]

Personally, I bought into wayyyy too many of the Cutler/offense puff pieces last season. I'm not even really reading them at this point...

[jersey cubs fan]

Pompei did a piece about how this might be the deepest roster in years, which is meaningless because they've been mediocre for three years. There's an article today apparently about Knox and the receivers feeling like rookies again in a new system.

[Banedon]

Pompei did a piece about how this might be the deepest roster in years, which is meaningless because they've been mediocre for three years. There's an article today apparently about Knox and the receivers feeling like rookies again in a new system.

 

You know, I used to like Pompei, but I think he's been pretty terrible in the last year or more. He's full of fluff, and buys into it....and then really kind of falls in love with the players on the roster.