Re: Bears Offseason Thread

[Soul]

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/mulligan/1971407,ron-turner-out-lovie-smith-returns-010410.article

 

changes will most probably happen.

 

Those sound like pretty marginal changes. The fact that our new OC will be working for a coach on the hot seat (read: lame duck) will limit our choices. A new DC will be brought in, but again, for a lame duck coach and likely another Lovie type guy. So the defense will essentially be the same -- unless Lovie magically decides we should try a new defense.

[gflore34]

Listening to Ed and Doug last night on the Score, they mentioned that Lovie is very stubborn and is quite probably going to continue with the same defensive scheme. It's obvious the scheme doesn't work very well, could mean he doesn't have the players for it, players aren't going to change much. Yet, he'll continue to employ the same ineffective defense rather, than try to come up with something to better utilize what his players bring to the table. What do you call it when someone continues to use the something that doesn't work over and over - stupid.

[Magnetic Curses]

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/mulligan/1971407,ron-turner-out-lovie-smith-returns-010410.article

 

changes will most probably happen.

 

Those sound like pretty marginal changes. The fact that our new OC will be working for a coach on the hot seat (read: lame duck) will limit our choices. A new DC will be brought in, but again, for a lame duck coach and likely another Lovie type guy. So the defense will essentially be the same -- unless Lovie magically decides we should try a new defense.

 

replacing your offense isn't a marginal move. especially when you're possibly talking going from turner to martz. not that that is a great thing in and of itself, but martz's offense is way different. as for defense, we all knew that if lovie stayed, so would the tampa-2, and i don't think lovie getting fired was an option. this is the best we could hope for.

 

if a new offense works, lovie's not a lame duck. i have a feeling that angelo will be quite active in the FA market this offseason.

[jersey cubs fan]

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/mulligan/1971407,ron-turner-out-lovie-smith-returns-010410.article

 

changes will most probably happen.

 

Those sound like pretty marginal changes. The fact that our new OC will be working for a coach on the hot seat (read: lame duck) will limit our choices. A new DC will be brought in, but again, for a lame duck coach and likely another Lovie type guy. So the defense will essentially be the same -- unless Lovie magically decides we should try a new defense.

 

These minimal changes are what everybody has been predicting for a month now.

 

I disagree that they will have slim pickings on offense. First off, any offensive coordinator is going to have complete autonomy with the offense. Guys will like that. They will be working with a young pro bowl caliber QB and a good deal of young talent. And on top of that, they will be first in line for any potential interim head coach/next head coach position if Lovie is canned next year. There might be a couple guys who would refuse to work under this situation, but it certainly would not be a smart career move for somebody to pass on that situation. It's a tremendous opportunity for anybody, either up and comer or established guy getting back on track.

[jersey cubs fan]

replacing your offense isn't a marginal move. especially when you're possibly talking going from turner to martz. not that that is a great thing in and of itself, but martz's offense is way different. as for defense, we all knew that if lovie stayed, so would the tampa-2, and i don't think lovie getting fired was an option. this is the best we could hope for.

 

When your entire coaching staff needs to be replaced, it most certainly is a marginal move to only replace the OC and some offensive position coaches. Lovie's already had the chance to replace an OC, he's replaced the DC twice already, but it's still the same old same old and it's only gotten worse with age.

 

This may be the best we can get, but it is not the best we could hope for.

[Banedon]

If they keep Lovie and fire Turner, I think I agree with a few of the columnists that Martz is a likely replacement. He's buddy-buddy with Lovie, and he would have full control of half of a football team (Lovie doesn't really touch offense at all from what I've read).

 

I also fully expect a D-Coordinator hire, though that one will be trickier...possible lame duck coach...much more oversight from the HC than the offense will get, plus Lovie's treatment of Ron Rivera could have an affect on potential hires.

[jersey cubs fan]

If they keep Lovie and fire Turner, I think I agree with a few of the columnists that Martz is a likely replacement. He's buddy-buddy with Lovie, and he would have full control of half of a football team (Lovie doesn't really touch offense at all from what I've read).

 

I also fully expect a D-Coordinator hire, though that one will be trickier.

 

I am surprised that Rod Marinelli's name hasn't come up in the defensive coordinator discussion.

[Banedon]

If they keep Lovie and fire Turner, I think I agree with a few of the columnists that Martz is a likely replacement. He's buddy-buddy with Lovie, and he would have full control of half of a football team (Lovie doesn't really touch offense at all from what I've read).

 

I also fully expect a D-Coordinator hire, though that one will be trickier.

 

I am surprised that Rod Marinelli's name hasn't come up in the defensive coordinator discussion.

 

I was thinking that this morning, and I wouldn't be surprised...but in the same breath, there was no great D-line improvements until the last couple of games when everybody on O and D seemed to wake up and realize there were jobs at stake.

[jersey cubs fan]

If they keep Lovie and fire Turner, I think I agree with a few of the columnists that Martz is a likely replacement. He's buddy-buddy with Lovie, and he would have full control of half of a football team (Lovie doesn't really touch offense at all from what I've read).

 

I also fully expect a D-Coordinator hire, though that one will be trickier.

 

I am surprised that Rod Marinelli's name hasn't come up in the defensive coordinator discussion.

 

I was thinking that this morning, and I wouldn't be surprised...but in the same breath, there was no great D-line improvements until the last couple of games when everybody on O and D seemed to wake up and realize there were jobs at stake.

 

Sure, but progress has never been a prerequisite for defensive coaching promotions on this team. I just figure it's an easy move. Add an asst d-line coach, shift Marinelli to DC, and Lovie goes back to HC only. It'll be easier to find an outside DC for the reasons you listed, and they can put all their efforts into improving the offensive staff.

[Banedon]

If they keep Lovie and fire Turner, I think I agree with a few of the columnists that Martz is a likely replacement. He's buddy-buddy with Lovie, and he would have full control of half of a football team (Lovie doesn't really touch offense at all from what I've read).

 

I also fully expect a D-Coordinator hire, though that one will be trickier.

 

I am surprised that Rod Marinelli's name hasn't come up in the defensive coordinator discussion.

 

I was thinking that this morning, and I wouldn't be surprised...but in the same breath, there was no great D-line improvements until the last couple of games when everybody on O and D seemed to wake up and realize there were jobs at stake.

 

Sure, but progress has never been a prerequisite for defensive coaching promotions on this team. I just figure it's an easy move. Add an asst d-line coach, shift Marinelli to DC, and Lovie goes back to HC only. It'll be easier to find an outside DC for the reasons you listed, and they can put all their efforts into improving the offensive staff.

 

Yeah...well they have Babich too...and they surely won't keep paying him like a DC...maybe it's just a matter of having him and Marinelli switch spots.

[Tyrant]

If they keep Lovie and fire Turner, I think I agree with a few of the columnists that Martz is a likely replacement. He's buddy-buddy with Lovie, and he would have full control of half of a football team (Lovie doesn't really touch offense at all from what I've read).

 

I know Martz has the potential to turn out badly, but I'm really curious to see what he would do with a quarterback like Cutler. It could be a great hire.

[gflore34]

If they keep Lovie and fire Turner, I think I agree with a few of the columnists that Martz is a likely replacement. He's buddy-buddy with Lovie, and he would have full control of half of a football team (Lovie doesn't really touch offense at all from what I've read).

 

I know Martz has the potential to turn out badly, but I'm really curious to see what he would do with a quarterback like Cutler. It could be a great hire.

 

I believe there's a chance it may work out as well, it's not as if the cupboard is completely bare, Cutler, Aromashodu, Olsen, Hester and Bennett in the hands of the right OC could be effective.

[Magnetic Curses]

martz's offense isn't exactly an easy one to implement and is highly contingent on timing. meaning, the wide receivers need to be able to read, and i'm not too sure about knox and hester.

[Banedon]

martz's offense isn't exactly an easy one to implement and is highly contingent on timing. meaning, the wide receivers need to be able to read, and i'm not too sure about knox and hester.

 

Olsen has appeared to have route issues as well.

[dew1679666265]

but what i'm saying is that it's dumb to be pissed at something like the bears passing on two backs that other teams passed over to take a back that was rated higher on most boards when there are far greater things to be pissed off at the organization about.

 

they passed on chris johnson and twice on desean jackson, too. do you want to talk about those guys as well?

 

I'm sure they had an idea going in that they were going to draft o-line with the first pick, so taking Chris Williams instead of Chris Johnson doesn't really bother me. By the time their 2nd rounder came up, Johnson was already gone. So I guess I'm just wondering what they saw in Forte that they liked over Rice and Charles.

 

The questions surrounding Ray Rice primarily centered around his size. He's only 5'8 and he dropped like he did because teams wondered if he could hold up over the course of a season as a feature back. He was largely seen as anywhere from an Eric Metcalf to a Darren Sproles (backing up LT). Not as a #1 guy. I don't remember the analysis at the time about Charles, but from what I can find it appears his ability to run between the tackles and his tendency to fumble knocked him to later in the draft.

 

Forte was seen as having the ability to be a feature back and was extremely productive in college. At 6'2, 218 he's also much bigger than either Charles or Rice.

[jersey cubs fan]

The problem with the Bears is their old fashioned unimaginative offense can't figure out how to use non-traditional running backs. Every good running game has multiple backfield weapons, but the Bears can't figure out how to make that work. When they had Jones and Benson, they couldn't wait to get rid of one, and when they got Forte they couldn't wait to dump Benson. They reached on a guy like Wolfe to try and work him as a change of pace guy, but he's barely played. They had to have Forte because he was one of the few guys you could count on to be an every down back. He's not special, and does nothing all that well, but he is useful in running and passing so they like him.

[Banedon]

WBBM-AM 780 reported Sunday that Forte played this season with a sprained medial collateral ligament. Forte first injured his left knee during the Bears' Week 3 win at Seattle.

 

Wow. I like Bell, but we need a guy that can take over if Forte is hurt, cuz that's crazy.

[jersey cubs fan]

WBBM-AM 780 reported Sunday that Forte played this season with a sprained medial collateral ligament. Forte first injured his left knee during the Bears' Week 3 win at Seattle.

 

Wow. I like Bell, but we need a guy that can take over if Forte is hurt, cuz that's crazy.

 

Not to mention completely ridiculous if the least bit true.

 

Aside from this story, the Bears were probably in a position where they needed a 2nd or 3rd round RB anyway, to add to the pathetic production there. Of course, considering they need a couple first round lineman and a safety as well, that's a lot of needs.

[Banedon]

WBBM-AM 780 reported Sunday that Forte played this season with a sprained medial collateral ligament. Forte first injured his left knee during the Bears' Week 3 win at Seattle.

 

Wow. I like Bell, but we need a guy that can take over if Forte is hurt, cuz that's crazy.

 

Not to mention completely ridiculous if the least bit true.

 

Aside from this story, the Bears were probably in a position where they needed a 2nd or 3rd round RB anyway, to add to the pathetic production there. Of course, considering they need a couple first round lineman and a safety as well, that's a lot of needs.

 

Well Forte admitted it was true...

 

Forte refused to use the injury as an excuse, but he did say it was the reason he was caught from behind on his career-long 61-yard run against the Lions in Week 4. HIs injury will not require surgery.

 

The only question I guess is what the Bears knew...but it sounds like they knew to me. I don't care if you have to put Peterson or Wolfe out there, you don't run a finesse back out there with a bum knee.

[jersey cubs fan]

The only question I guess is what the Bears knew...but it sounds like they knew to me. I don't care if you have to put Peterson or Wolfe out there, you don't run a finesse back out there with a bum knee.

 

Who is the finesse back? Forte sure isn't.

 

If it was at all serious that's practically reckless endangerment. More likely it was just normal wear and tear and we're just hearing excuses now. He probably got caught from behind because he's not that good of a RB and isn't the least bit fast.

[Soul]

I think your latter statement is more likely.

[Outshined_One]

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/mulligan/1971407,ron-turner-out-lovie-smith-returns-010410.article

 

changes will most probably happen.

 

Those sound like pretty marginal changes. The fact that our new OC will be working for a coach on the hot seat (read: lame duck) will limit our choices. A new DC will be brought in, but again, for a lame duck coach and likely another Lovie type guy. So the defense will essentially be the same -- unless Lovie magically decides we should try a new defense.

 

I wonder if they'd be interested in bringing in a potential future HC type of guy at one of the coordinator positions. Let him get his schemes and players set for the team, then, when Lovie gets canned after next season, have a seamless transition to the new guy, who will already have familiarity with the rest of the coaching staff, front office, and players.

 

I don't think it'll happen, but if there's a promising guy out there who's a position coach, it couldn't hurt to try it.

[YearofDaCubs]

Why is it taking them so long to come to a decision?

[sneakypower]

If they keep Lovie and fire Turner, I think I agree with a few of the columnists that Martz is a likely replacement. He's buddy-buddy with Lovie, and he would have full control of half of a football team (Lovie doesn't really touch offense at all from what I've read).

 

I also fully expect a D-Coordinator hire, though that one will be trickier.

 

I am surprised that Rod Marinelli's name hasn't come up in the defensive coordinator discussion.

man, i wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. Martz, i do like though.

[rawaction]

I really don't want Mike Martz. The Bears have a young offense and need a young, fresh mind to lead them. We already know what Martz gives you. And I don't think he helps Cutler takes the step forward he needs to take. We know Cutler can throw for 3500-4000 yards. We know he can rack up the TD passes and big plays. However, his turnovers are keeping him from being elite right now. Martz hasn't shown that he is creative enough in the run game to take pressure off the QB. He hasn't shown he is smart enough to scheme so his QB doesn't take hits. And he hasn't shown that he values his QBs not turning over the ball enough.

 

Martz's age and connection to Lovie means that 2 years for now (if Lovie is allowed to coach out his contract), Cutler will go into 2012 with his 3rd completely new offensive system as a Bear.