2010 BBWAA HOF Ballot

[Guest]

Roberto Alomar

Bert Blyleven

Barry Larkin

Mark McGwire

Tim Raines

Alan Trammell

 

That's the list for me. Similar to some others I've seen in the thread.

[OleMissCub]

I'm a Dawson homer. Intellectually I obviously understand the knocks against him (let's make that clear) and if I didn't have the Cubs connection of my youth toward him, I probably wouldn't include him on my list. But I could pretty much guarantee there isn't another non-HOFer with an all around resume as good as his.

 

2800 hits

440 HR

500 Doubles

1600 RBI

300 Stolen Bases

8 Gold Gloves (4 in CF)

8 All Star appearances

Most Valuable Player award

Rookie of the Year Award

 

*stats rounded up in some cases

[SouthSideRyan]

Dawson's getting in this year, he's too close not to. That combined with a lack of slam dunk HOFers(in the voters minds) and continued steroid backlash should send him in. I'll say 79%

[erik316wttn]

I'm a Dawson homer. Intellectually I obviously understand the knocks against him (let's make that clear) and if I didn't have the Cubs connection of my youth toward him, I probably wouldn't include him on my list. But I could pretty much guarantee there isn't another non-HOFer with an all around resume as good as his.

 

2800 hits

440 HR

500 Doubles

1600 RBI

300 Stolen Bases

8 Gold Gloves (4 in CF)

8 All Star appearances

Most Valuable Player award

Rookie of the Year Award

 

*stats rounded up in some cases

 

Andre would have been first-ballot if the turf in Montreal hadn't ruined his knees.

[Derwood]

Larkin and Trammell (to me) are "Hall of Very Good" type players, but not legendary

[Guest]

Larkin and Trammell (to me) are "Hall of Very Good" type players, but not legendary

They were the best two SS of their era in their respective leagues. To me that makes the HOF type players. What's the point of a HOF if only the "legendary" players can get in? IMO Sports HOFs are about eras and the best of each should get in.

[OleMissCub]

Larkin and Trammell (to me) are "Hall of Very Good" type players, but not legendary

They were the best two SS of their era in their respective leagues. To me that makes the HOF type players. What's the point of a HOF if only the "legendary" players can get in? IMO Sports HOFs are about eras and the best of each should get in.

 

I get what you are saying and agree, but some would argue that Ripken was the better AL shortstop of the 80's than Trammell. Larkin, I don't think there is any contest. He was the premier NL Shortstop of the 90's.

[Guest]

Larkin and Trammell (to me) are "Hall of Very Good" type players, but not legendary

They were the best two SS of their era in their respective leagues. To me that makes the HOF type players. What's the point of a HOF if only the "legendary" players can get in? IMO Sports HOFs are about eras and the best of each should get in.

 

I get what you are saying and agree, but some would argue that Ripken was the better AL shortstop of the 80's than Trammell. Larkin, I don't think there is any contest. He was the premier NL Shortstop of the 90's.

Yet, Trammell was better than Larkin (that's my recollection - have to admit I haven't looked at the stats before saying that here).

 

If ARod had stayed at SS for Texas, could only one of he and Jeter go into the hall?

[Derwood]

Trammell: .285/.352/.415/.767 2376 Hits, 412 2B's, 185 HR, 1003 RBI, 236 SB's

Larkin: .295/.371/.444/.815 2340 Hits, 441 2B's, 198 HR, 960 RBI, 379 SB's

 

as a comparison:

 

Ripken: .276/.340/.447/.787 3184 Hits, 603 2B's, 431 HR's, 1695 RBI, 36 SB's

[Guest]

Trammell: .285/.352/.415/.767 2376 Hits, 412 2B's, 185 HR, 1003 RBI, 236 SB's

Larkin: .295/.371/.444/.815 2340 Hits, 441 2B's, 198 HR, 960 RBI, 379 SB's

 

as a comparison:

 

Ripken: .276/.340/.447/.787 3184 Hits, 603 2B's, 431 HR's, 1695 RBI, 36 SB's

Not really a fair comparison, though. By the time the offensive explosion of the mid-90's happened, Trammell was already old. Barry played nearly his entire career during that timeframe. The context of those stats is very skewed in Barry's favor.

[Guest]

Those stats raise another question for me, though: Is Ripken one of the most overrated players of all time? I know his peak years were pretty high, but his overall value as a historical figure in baseball lies with two things: the streak; and redefining SS as a power position. Both of those are important (particularly the second), but he's more of a mid-solid HOF guy to me than baseball icon.

[Derwood]

Those stats raise another question for me, though: Is Ripken one of the most overrated players of all time? I know his peak years were pretty high, but his overall value as a historical figure in baseball lies with two things: the streak; and redefining SS as a power position. Both of those are important (particularly the second), but he's more of a mid-solid HOF guy to me than baseball icon.

 

the streak, playing for his dad, full career with one team, plus 3000+ hits is what got him in

[NewUserName]

Those stats raise another question for me, though: Is Ripken one of the most overrated players of all time? I know his peak years were pretty high, but his overall value as a historical figure in baseball lies with two things: the streak; and redefining SS as a power position. Both of those are important (particularly the second), but he's more of a mid-solid HOF guy to me than baseball icon.

 

I think he has a great perception among the media, therefore he is probably one of the most beloved players of all-time. I agree he was overrated as an actual player. I also think that he had a reputation of being selfless, yet he is widely known for a personal record that has little to do with winning a team game. I am not questioning Ripken as a HOFer. I think he is a great example of how the media can really help or hurt a players HOF credentials though. Wasnt Ripken almost a unanamous pick?

 

Ripken was an underrated defensive SS in his prime though.

[NewUserName]

Those stats raise another question for me, though: Is Ripken one of the most overrated players of all time? I know his peak years were pretty high, but his overall value as a historical figure in baseball lies with two things: the streak; and redefining SS as a power position. Both of those are important (particularly the second), but he's more of a mid-solid HOF guy to me than baseball icon.

 

the streak, playing for his dad, full career with one team, plus 3000+ hits is what got him in

 

I think he was considered one of the best players ever when he was playing. Which is probably why Tim may be thinking he was overrated.

[CubbieBum]

edgar's stats might look a little fishy in the steroid era. not a huge power threat until age 32, biggest power season at age 37. plus, while he has amazing career slash stats, i don't think he's accumulated enough counting stats. 309 home runs isn't enough.

 

He'd never get my vote just because of how awful the DH rule is to me. The voters seem to be a pretty conservative bunch and I'm sure there are plenty who hate the DH as much as me.

 

The DH to me is like voting for a non-kicker/punter ST's player in the NFL. Were they really good at that particular part of the game? Of course but every HOFer and even many non-HOFer's would have been just as good or better if they got to play on ST's/DH. Imagine what Griffey could have done if he didn't have to play the field once he go to Cinci or Bonds once his knee started to fail. Every pretty good hitter could have done as well or better than Martinez if they got to play only DH just as Ray Lewis would dominate if he played ST's.

 

not at all. there's been plenty of full time dh's who don't come close to approaching edgar's production.

 

using that logic, pitchers in the al shouldn't be eligible for the hall.

 

Where did I say everyone who plays DH can do what Edgar did? I said every good hitter could. There are 10-20 players in his era that could have put up equally impressive statistics if they only played DH. Some did put up equally productive numbers even while playing the field.

 

Edgar was a very good hitter but there are an abundance of players who were comparable hitters, while playing the field, and aren't in the HOF or even really considered. Basically if you are going to only play half the game you should be head and shoulders above everyone else in that part of the game. He only had 3 seasons where he had a batting or OBP title and only one season of 30+ HR's. His most similar career on baseball-reference is Will Clark. Anyone think he is a HOFer?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Those stats raise another question for me, though: Is Ripken one of the most overrated players of all time?

 

He's no Pete Rose.

[imb]

I'm a Dawson homer. Intellectually I obviously understand the knocks against him (let's make that clear) and if I didn't have the Cubs connection of my youth toward him, I probably wouldn't include him on my list. But I could pretty much guarantee there isn't another non-HOFer with an all around resume as good as his.

 

2800 hits

440 HR

500 Doubles

1600 RBI

300 Stolen Bases

8 Gold Gloves (4 in CF)

8 All Star appearances

Most Valuable Player award

Rookie of the Year Award

 

*stats rounded up in some cases

 

Andre would have been first-ballot if the turf in Montreal hadn't ruined his knees.

 

i wonder if anyone ever pointed that out before, you should go on jim rome with that kind of ground breaking analysis

[Little Slide Rooter]

While Barry Larkin is HOF material, I dont know if he desrves to be a first balloter, however, due to the slim pickings, he just might be. Same goes for Robby Alomar. Dawson and Blyleven also have a pretty good shot. Todd Zeile and Shane Reynolds are 2 of those guys who make one wonder what the qualifications are to be on the ballot. There seem to be a few of those every year.

[OleMissCub]

Jeff Reboulet was on the ballot last year.

 

I think the only qualifications to get on the ballot is that you played 10 years and have been retired for 5.

[SouthSideRyan]

edgar's stats might look a little fishy in the steroid era. not a huge power threat until age 32, biggest power season at age 37. plus, while he has amazing career slash stats, i don't think he's accumulated enough counting stats. 309 home runs isn't enough.

 

He'd never get my vote just because of how awful the DH rule is to me. The voters seem to be a pretty conservative bunch and I'm sure there are plenty who hate the DH as much as me.

 

The DH to me is like voting for a non-kicker/punter ST's player in the NFL. Were they really good at that particular part of the game? Of course but every HOFer and even many non-HOFer's would have been just as good or better if they got to play on ST's/DH. Imagine what Griffey could have done if he didn't have to play the field once he go to Cinci or Bonds once his knee started to fail. Every pretty good hitter could have done as well or better than Martinez if they got to play only DH just as Ray Lewis would dominate if he played ST's.

 

not at all. there's been plenty of full time dh's who don't come close to approaching edgar's production.

 

using that logic, pitchers in the al shouldn't be eligible for the hall.

 

Where did I say everyone who plays DH can do what Edgar did? I said every good hitter could. There are 10-20 players in his era that could have put up equally impressive statistics if they only played DH. Some did put up equally productive numbers even while playing the field.

 

Edgar was a very good hitter but there are an abundance of players who were comparable hitters, while playing the field, and aren't in the HOF or even really considered. Basically if you are going to only play half the game you should be head and shoulders above everyone else in that part of the game. He only had 3 seasons where he had a batting or OBP title and only one season of 30+ HR's. His most similar career on baseball-reference is Will Clark. Anyone think he is a HOFer?

 

Will Clark should have gotten a lot more support than he did. I wouldn't be outraged with him as a HOFer. The problem with that is Clark picks up some serious value with his defense.

[OleMissCub]

Will Clark is a sabermetricians wet dream.

 

He was definitely a stud though.

[imb]

plus he wore sweet eye black

 

and i copied the way he pulled up his front sleeve before each pitch

[OleMissCub]

reminds me of an old baseball card I used to have

 

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1230/1351175999_c19a674ffe.jpg

[rocket]

will clark was my favorite player growing up. he certainly should be in the hall for that.

[imb]

will clark was my favorite player growing up. he certainly should be in the hall for that.

 

was he your favorite player in 1989 you dick