Granderson to Yankees in 3-way trade? p. 20

[dew1679666265]

Just curious but there is a report on ChicagoSports.com that the cubs are interested in Heath Bell from the padres and that the padres would be interested in Theriot or Soto. Would anybody here be opposed to trading Theriot to the Padres for Bell and then centering a deal to the Tigers for Granderson that revolves around Marmol?

 

The offense would have to be good enough to put Blanco in at SS, I think. Unless you want to rush Castro, and I'd prefer not to.

 

If the cubs acquire Granderson by letting go of Marmol and Theriot, i'm all for it, even if it rushes Castro because i think Castro would still develop with the big league club under Jaramillo.

 

The key would be not hurting his confidence. If he comes up and puts up a .220/.230/.385 line this year, how does he handle that? I don't know, but I'd prefer to take it slowly with a promising player as young as he is.

 

I think he'll handle it just fine. He's only 19 yrs old and reading some of the spanish articles and english articles on him, he seems to have a lot of self confidence. If he was a player that was passive and kept referring back to the organization when asked about his developed then i would agree with you but from all the quotes i read, he expects to be in the big leagues this year and is confident in his skills.

 

I don't know that it would hurt his psyche at all or that he would even struggle if he came up. I just think it'd be rushing him for little reward – he's unlikely to be particularly good this season and then, as Neuby mentioned, you start his arby clock earlier.

[Sever82]

I would prefer to bring in a verteran shortstop on the cheap to compete with Blanco for the starting job ,letting Castro learn in Iowa with Jon Joshua, and it starts his arby clock later.

 

They need to play their absolute best option next year, regardless of service time. '11 looks rough.

 

Very True, the cubs were cautoius with Patterson, Pie, etc and no of those players develop. I'm all for bringing Castro up, as long as Piniella has enough patience with him and doesn't have a short leash on him.

[Tyrant]

Very True, the cubs were cautoius with Patterson

 

This is 100% correct, except for the part where you say the Cubs were cautious with Patterson.

[Sever82]

Very True, the cubs were cautoius with Patterson

 

This is 100% correct, except for the part where you say the Cubs were cautious with Patterson.

 

I dont know, i mean i think they were. I think the cubs baby their prospects too much. With Pie, they didnt let him work through his slumps, as soon as he slumped they put him on the bench and then to Iowa. If you believe a prospect is going to be good, let him struggle and work his way out of it. I can't find one highly touted prospect that became a star right out of the gates. Longoria did well out of the gate and so did beckham. But then you have players like Hanley or Miguel Cabrera that struggled a bit initially and then later worked their way through it. I think the problem with the cubs organization is that they expect these young players to be studs and put the same numbers they put in the minors right out the gate.

[Backtobanks]

I think all this talk about Theriot is pure nonsense. Everything I've ever read or heard points to the fact Hendry and Piniella love Theriot as a player. Again that's not my opinion, just stating what I've seen and heard.

[Rusch33]

From El Gordo (Gordon Wittenmyer):

 

Tigers said to be shopping Granderson after all. Cubs told Det if serious Cubs all in.

 

[Sever82]

From El Gordo (Gordon Wittenmyer):

 

Tigers said to be shopping Granderson after all. Cubs told Det if serious Cubs all in.

 

 

I hope all in means all in except for Castro.

[haubrich91]

Please don't over do it, Jim & Co.

[nick23]

Gammons just reported Detriot asked for Castro and two prospects. Cubs said that too much.

[Sever82]

Gammons just reported Detriot asked for Castro and two prospects. Cubs said that too much.

 

Hopefully they dont comeback and say Castro and one prospect and the cubs say "ok"

[Sever82]

Someone on the Cubs board on ESPN posted that the Yankees acquire Granderson for Hughes and Jackson. I'm guessing thats false.

[Sever82]

http://blog.mlive.com/cutoffman/2009/12/report_tigers_close_to_dealing.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+detroit-tigers+%28Detroit+Tigers+Impact+-+MLive.com%29

 

Report: Tigers close to dealing Edwin Jackson, Curtis Granderson to New York Yankees

By James Schmehl | MLive.com

December 07, 2009, 3:07PM

 

AP PhotoThe New York Yankees are reportedly close to a trade involving Tigers outfielder Curtis Granderson and pitcher Edwin Jackson.The rumor mill is filling up fast -- and it's only the first day of the annual four-day winter meetings.

 

The Chicago Tribune's Dave van [expletive] is reporting the Tigers are closing in on a deal that would send Edwin Jackson and outfielder Curtis Granderson to the New York Yankees.

 

The Cubs reportedly remain heavily interested in Granderson, but van [expletive] said Chicago "may not have the ability to take both players" unless they can find a suitor for Cubs outfielder Milton Bradley.

 

 

Chicago Tribune, Dec. 7: The Yankees apparently are trying to put together a package of young players. One executive said the Cubs might have a more attractive offer and that manager Lou Piniella loves Granderson, a Chicago native.

 

Both teams also are interested in Mike Cameron if they lose out on Granderson, although it is not a lock the Tigers will be dealing him.

 

The Yankees also have the ability to take on starter Edwin Jackson, and a report in USA Today had Jackson being close to leaving the Tigers in a trade.

 

AOL FanHouse's Ed Price reported earlier that the New York Mets were rumored to have acquired Tigers pitcher Edwin Jackson. However, News Day's Ken Davidoff said a Mets official has since denied the rumor.

 

That be the case, Jackson still appears to be available on the trade market, but as USA Today's Bob Nightengale notes, he could be traded as early as today.

 

Despite the Tribune's report, Fox Sports said a team in the National League is most likely to land Jackson. The Arizona Diamondbacks and Seattle Mariners are reportedly "known to have interest." The report also said the Brewers, Mets and Dodgers are not interested in Jackson.

 

That be the case, an earlier report suggesting a trade involving Jackson and Dodgers reliever George Sherrill can be dismissed.

 

Not sure how this article assumes the yankees are closing in on a deal from what the articles he posted say?

[davell]

I truly don't see Castro getting dealt. Hopefully, they lower their demands some though.

[Sever82]

Ed Price just Twittered:

#Tigers and #Yankees are in talks on Granderson, but "lukewarm" cause Yanks so far won'tdeal prospect A.Jackson & Det wants CF in return.

 

Looks like they want a good amoutn for Granderson. I think if the Cubs want Granderson but dont want to deal Castro, they'll have to deal Cashner and Vitters in a package for him.

[nick23]

I'd much rather give up Castro rather than both Vitters and Cashner. I'm in the minority probably but I'd deal Castro before Vitters.

[davell]

http://blog.mlive.com/cutoffman/2009/12/report_tigers_close_to_dealing.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+detroit-tigers+%28Detroit+Tigers+Impact+-+MLive.com%29

 

Report: Tigers close to dealing Edwin Jackson, Curtis Granderson to New York Yankees

By James Schmehl | MLive.com

December 07, 2009, 3:07PM

 

AP PhotoThe New York Yankees are reportedly close to a trade involving Tigers outfielder Curtis Granderson and pitcher Edwin Jackson.The rumor mill is filling up fast -- and it's only the first day of the annual four-day winter meetings.

 

The Chicago Tribune's Dave van [expletive] is reporting the Tigers are closing in on a deal that would send Edwin Jackson and outfielder Curtis Granderson to the New York Yankees.

 

The Cubs reportedly remain heavily interested in Granderson, but van [expletive] said Chicago "may not have the ability to take both players" unless they can find a suitor for Cubs outfielder Milton Bradley.

 

 

Chicago Tribune, Dec. 7: The Yankees apparently are trying to put together a package of young players. One executive said the Cubs might have a more attractive offer and that manager Lou Piniella loves Granderson, a Chicago native.

 

Both teams also are interested in Mike Cameron if they lose out on Granderson, although it is not a lock the Tigers will be dealing him.

 

The Yankees also have the ability to take on starter Edwin Jackson, and a report in USA Today had Jackson being close to leaving the Tigers in a trade.

 

AOL FanHouse's Ed Price reported earlier that the New York Mets were rumored to have acquired Tigers pitcher Edwin Jackson. However, News Day's Ken Davidoff said a Mets official has since denied the rumor.

 

That be the case, Jackson still appears to be available on the trade market, but as USA Today's Bob Nightengale notes, he could be traded as early as today.

 

Despite the Tribune's report, Fox Sports said a team in the National League is most likely to land Jackson. The Arizona Diamondbacks and Seattle Mariners are reportedly "known to have interest." The report also said the Brewers, Mets and Dodgers are not interested in Jackson.

 

That be the case, an earlier report suggesting a trade involving Jackson and Dodgers reliever George Sherrill can be dismissed.

 

Not sure how this article assumes the yankees are closing in on a deal from what the articles he posted say?

 

 

As we all know, their will be tons of rumors going around over the next few days obviously and until something is done, we really don't know who to believe. Ed Price from AOL FANHOUSE tweeted a little while ago that the Yanks-Granderson talks are lukewarm at best, because the Yanks won't include Austin Jackson......Hopefully this guy is right, because if all we have to beat as the main piece of a deal is Austin Jackson, we can certainly do that, without including Castro. Of course, we don't know(even if this guy is right about the rumor) that Jackson is the MAIN piece either........Gotta love the winter meetings.......

[davell]

And then you beat me to the Price comments. :D

[jersey cubs fan]

Very True, the cubs were cautoius with Patterson

 

This is 100% correct, except for the part where you say the Cubs were cautious with Patterson.

 

I dont know, i mean i think they were. I think the cubs baby their prospects too much. With Pie, they didnt let him work through his slumps, as soon as he slumped they put him on the bench and then to Iowa. If you believe a prospect is going to be good, let him struggle and work his way out of it.

 

How is that babying? That's called screwing them up. The Cubs were not cautious with Patterson.

 

Here's what happened with Corey.

He was drafted and specifically called a future middle of the order hitter and not a leadoff hitter. He had immediate success in low A, then skipped high A and went to AA and was called up 2 years after graduating high school. The manager immediately went to work criticizing his power stroke and trying to turn him into a slappy McGee leadoff hitter. He struggled. They then talked about the need to not yo-yo the kid and give him time to develop. So, he starts next year in AAA, struggles, gets called up anyway, barely plays. He's 21 years old, he's been developed as a power hitter and then told to start bunting, and on top of it all, his biggest fault, over aggressiveness and a lack of patience/walks, is exacerbated by a coaching staff and front office that abhors patience at the plate. He's not playing much and doesn't have an incredible amount of pro time on his belt, but at 22 he's given the full time job, where he struggles. He begins to improve, then gets injured, and that was the beginning of the end.

 

The Cubs do not baby prospects. That accusation makes no sense. If the Cubs babied Patterson he would have spent 1999 in short season ball, 2000 in low A, 2001 in high A and 2002 in AA before being called up ta 22 at the earliest.

[Sever82]

Very True, the cubs were cautoius with Patterson

 

This is 100% correct, except for the part where you say the Cubs were cautious with Patterson.

 

I dont know, i mean i think they were. I think the cubs baby their prospects too much. With Pie, they didnt let him work through his slumps, as soon as he slumped they put him on the bench and then to Iowa. If you believe a prospect is going to be good, let him struggle and work his way out of it.

 

How is that babying? That's called screwing them up. The Cubs were not cautious with Patterson.

 

Here's what happened with Corey.

He was drafted and specifically called a future middle of the order hitter and not a leadoff hitter. He had immediate success in low A, then skipped high A and went to AA and was called up 2 years after graduating high school. The manager immediately went to work criticizing his power stroke and trying to turn him into a slappy McGee leadoff hitter. He struggled. They then talked about the need to not yo-yo the kid and give him time to develop. So, he starts next year in AAA, struggles, gets called up anyway, barely plays. He's 21 years old, he's been developed as a power hitter and then told to start bunting, and on top of it all, his biggest fault, over aggressiveness and a lack of patience/walks, is exacerbated by a coaching staff and front office that abhors patience at the plate. He's not playing much and doesn't have an incredible amount of pro time on his belt, but at 22 he's given the full time job, where he struggles. He begins to improve, then gets injured, and that was the beginning of the end.

 

The Cubs do not baby prospects. That accusation makes no sense. If the Cubs babied Patterson he would have spent 1999 in short season ball, 2000 in low A, 2001 in high A and 2002 in AA before being called up ta 22 at the earliest.

 

What happened to Pie? I also wrote that they didnt baby Patterson. What i mean by babying is that they put most of their prospects on a short leash and at the intiial sign that they struggle they overreact and either send them down for more development or bench them.

[ThePenguin11]

Is Starlin Castro really that good? WAIT!!! BEFORE YOU ANSWER please think about all of the over-hyped Cubs prospects of the last decade that have been can't miss, untradeable players. Every year we have a new hype machine going for a new player that is the future of the team. I'd say 90% of these losers didn't pan out or panned out on another team without the Cubs maximizing prospect value.

 

When I hear about a guy like Starlin Castro being the next big star - I honestly laugh and scoff at the notion. Is there any real reason other than a great fall league to indicate that this guy is actually any damn good? His numbers at A and AA look pretty pedestrian and AFL is a pretty damn small sample size. I can't understand why anyone would out-of-hand dismiss a trade for a pretty damn good pro like Curtis Granderson. They can't all be perennial all-stars. I would suspect Starlin Castro will not be attending too many all-star games himself for that matter - just based on this farm system's history.

[Sever82]

Is Starlin Castro really that good? WAIT!!! BEFORE YOU ANSWER please think about all of the over-hyped Cubs prospects of the last decade that have been can't miss, untradeable players. Every year we have a new hype machine going for a new player that is the future of the team. I'd say 90% of these losers didn't pan out or panned out on another team without the Cubs maximizing prospect value.

 

When I hear about a guy like Starlin Castro being the next big star - I honestly laugh and scoff at the notion. Is there any real reason other than a great fall league to indicate that this guy is actually any damn good? His numbers at A and AA look pretty pedestrian and AFL is a pretty damn small sample size. I can't understand why anyone would out-of-hand dismiss a trade for a pretty damn good pro like Curtis Granderson. They can't all be perennial all-stars. I would suspect Starlin Castro will not be attending too many all-star games himself for that matter - just based on this farm system's history.

 

I agree Castro's numbers aren't eye popping but i think they're pretty good considering his age. But i think what makes Castro is what scouts have observed about him. Whether its his speed, his bat speed, his eye at the plate, his contact ability, etc. In the past, the cubs have overhyped their prospects, not the scouts. Scouts did rave about Patterson but not about Pie, Cedeno, etc. The last i heard scouts rave about a cubs prospect like this was Patterson and Wood.

[Outshined_One]

When I hear about a guy like Starlin Castro being the next big star - I honestly laugh and scoff at the notion. Is there any real reason other than a great fall league to indicate that this guy is actually any damn good? His numbers at A and AA look pretty pedestrian and AFL is a pretty damn small sample size.

 

1) Youth relative to league (19 years old in A+ and AA)

2) Plus defensive tools at a premium position (SS)

3) Plus speed

4) Contact Ability

 

Yeah, the guy could bust, but even before the AFL he was a Top 40 prospect in all of baseball. Considering there have been rumors going around that the Cubs might make him the everyday SS in 2010 with Theriot moving to 2B, he clearly has really good potential to be a special player. Remember how you said those previous top-level prospects with the Cubs panned out with other teams? I'd rather not see that happen with the Cubs and Castro, especially if the Cubs didn't get appropriate value for him.

 

I don't think Granderson for Castro plus other prospects would be a good deal for the Cubs.

[Sever82]

When I hear about a guy like Starlin Castro being the next big star - I honestly laugh and scoff at the notion. Is there any real reason other than a great fall league to indicate that this guy is actually any damn good? His numbers at A and AA look pretty pedestrian and AFL is a pretty damn small sample size.

 

1) Youth relative to league (19 years old in A+ and AA)

2) Plus defensive tools at a premium position (SS)

3) Plus speed

4) Contact Ability

 

Yeah, the guy could bust, but even before the AFL he was a Top 40 prospect in all of baseball. Considering there have been rumors going around that the Cubs might make him the everyday SS in 2010 with Theriot moving to 2B, he clearly has really good potential to be a special player. Remember how you said those previous top-level prospects with the Cubs panned out with other teams? I'd rather not see that happen with the Cubs and Castro, especially if the Cubs didn't get appropriate value for him.

 

I don't think Granderson for Castro plus other prospects would be a good deal for the Cubs.

 

What i dont get is why so many people keep posting stuff like " Look what happened with the other supposed prospects." I mean Castro could flop but its better for the cubs to develop their own talent than continue to go out and trade people away for others. And I mean what do past prospects have to do with Castro, Vitters, Cashner, etc. I mean yes they're all prospects but people who continued to want to trade them away will be the same people who criticize hendry if those prospects pan out into something special.

[jersey cubs fan]

What happened to Pie? I also wrote that they didnt baby Patterson. What i mean by babying is that they put most of their prospects on a short leash and at the intiial sign that they struggle they overreact and either send them down for more development or bench them.

 

Lou happened to Pie. Lou and a giant pile of impatience. They weren't as impatient as they were with Corey initially, allowing him to develop more in the minors, but they gave up on him in a hurry once he reached the majors.

[Tyrant]

Longoria did well out of the gate and so did beckham. But then you have players like Hanley or Miguel Cabrera that struggled a bit initially and then later worked their way through it.

 

Miguel Cabrera had an .879 OPS in his first full season. Hanley Ramirez had an .833 OPS in his rookie year. I'm not sure what you mean by "struggled."

 

I can't find one highly touted prospect that became a star right out of the gates.

 

Ryan Braun obliterated the entire National League right out of the gates. There's one you couldn't think of. There are plenty of others.