Re: Cubs Targeting Mike Cameron?

[weatherdood]

Note the source, so take it for what it's worth, but Steve Stone mentioned on Boers and Bernstein this afternoon that the Hardy for Gomez deal raises the possibility of the Cubs being able to get Cameron. Really not sure what I think about this one.

[David]

Note the source, so take it for what it's worth, but Steve Stone mentioned on Boers and Bernstein this afternoon that the Hardy for Gomez deal raises the possibility of the Cubs being able to get Cameron. Really not sure what I think about this one.

 

 

Pretty sure we've discussed Cameron before. Great value if we can get him short term (1 or 2 years at a reasonable amount). Has been insanely consistent at the plate and is a great defensive CF.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I didnt want Cameron before, and I dont want him now, but the one benefit to him would be that Kosuke could go back to RF where hes just about the best in the business, and wed have a very strong defensive outfield, at least the right side.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Marcus Thames, Matt Treanor Become Free Agents

By Tim Dierkes [November 6 at 3:06pm CST]

Marcus Thames and Matt Treanor became free agents today, according to MLB.com's Jason Beck (via Twitter). Both former Tigers were non-tender candidates anyway, but apparently they've been outrighted or released.

 

Thames, 33 in March, hit .252/.323/.453 in 294 plate appearances while playing 125 innings in left field and spending the rest of his time at DH. Thames has played a little first base and right field in his career as well.

 

I didnt think this deserved its own thread, so I figured Id hijack this one for a moment. While I dont knowmuch about Thames defense, he is the offensive equivelent of Cameron, so why not get him for cheaper instead? If we must get as player we dont really want, may as well be the cheapest one.

[CubColtPacer]

Marcus Thames, Matt Treanor Become Free Agents

By Tim Dierkes [November 6 at 3:06pm CST]

Marcus Thames and Matt Treanor became free agents today, according to MLB.com's Jason Beck (via Twitter). Both former Tigers were non-tender candidates anyway, but apparently they've been outrighted or released.

 

Thames, 33 in March, hit .252/.323/.453 in 294 plate appearances while playing 125 innings in left field and spending the rest of his time at DH. Thames has played a little first base and right field in his career as well.

 

I didnt think this deserved its own thread, so I figured Id hijack this one for a moment. While I dont knowmuch about Thames defense, he is the offensive equivelent of Cameron, so why not get him for cheaper instead? If we must get as player we dont really want, may as well be the cheapest one.

 

Thames is a poor defensive corner OF. He's much closer to Jake Fox than a legitimate option in the OF. There is a huge difference between the impact that Cameron would provide and the one that Thames would.

[rocket]

he's going to be 37. no way.

[17 Seconds]

Marcus Thames, Matt Treanor Become Free Agents

By Tim Dierkes [November 6 at 3:06pm CST]

Marcus Thames and Matt Treanor became free agents today, according to MLB.com's Jason Beck (via Twitter). Both former Tigers were non-tender candidates anyway, but apparently they've been outrighted or released.

 

Thames, 33 in March, hit .252/.323/.453 in 294 plate appearances while playing 125 innings in left field and spending the rest of his time at DH. Thames has played a little first base and right field in his career as well.

 

I didnt think this deserved its own thread, so I figured Id hijack this one for a moment. While I dont knowmuch about Thames defense, he is the offensive equivelent of Cameron, so why not get him for cheaper instead? If we must get as player we dont really want, may as well be the cheapest one.

 

thames is not the offensive equivalent to cameron at all

 

also, thames doesn't play center (meaning we wouldn't get the advantage of moving kosuke back to right) and is a really bad defender in the outfield positions he does play

 

so to summarize.... mike cameron is good, thames sucks, and they are nothing alike at all.

[Post Count Padder]

I honestly don't see a problem with Cameron on a one year deal. My concern is I could see Hendry giving him three or two with a player option.

[soonercub]

knowing that their probably isn't enough money to add a big time free agent. I would be content adding Cameron and trying to trade Bradley for some pitching help.

[Rob]

For a long time, Mike Cameron has functioned as the litmus test to determine whether somebody knows what the hell they're talking about when evaluating players. He doesn't do the flashy stuff. He takes a bunch of walks. His power production comes from moderate amounts of doubles and home runs. He steals a decent number of bases at a pretty good rate. He plays exceptional defense.

 

But he doesn't bat .300. He doesn't hit 30 bombs, or drive in 100 rbi, or score 100 runs, or steal 30 bases. He's actually good enough on defense that he doesn't have to make the flashy, diving plays that get him noticed on sportscenter. And that's why he's undervalued. Look at how much value he's provided his teams over the years.

 

2002 - $12.6 million

2003 - $13.0 million

2004 - $10.0 million

2005 - $7.0 million

2006 - $16.2 million

2007 - $8.9 million

2008 - $18.1 million

2009 - $19.4 million

 

Yes, he's entered the age range where it'd be a mistake to commit to him long term. But I'd be shocked if he gets a better deal than Bobby Abreu just got (2 years, $19 million). At that pricetag, it's absolutely foolish of the people in this thread to dismiss him.

[Rob]

I didnt want Cameron before, and I dont want him now, but the one benefit to him would be that Kosuke could go back to RF where hes just about the best in the business, and wed have a very strong defensive outfield, at least the right side.

 

I didnt think this deserved its own thread, so I figured Id hijack this one for a moment. While I dont knowmuch about Thames defense, he is the offensive equivelent of Cameron, so why not get him for cheaper instead? If we must get as player we dont really want, may as well be the cheapest one.

 

Dear god... between this and the Hawpe stuff, you're having a really bad couple of days.

[davearm2]

For a long time, Mike Cameron has functioned as the litmus test to determine whether somebody knows what the hell they're talking about when evaluating players. He doesn't do the flashy stuff. He takes a bunch of walks. His power production comes from moderate amounts of doubles and home runs. He steals a decent number of bases at a pretty good rate. He plays exceptional defense.

 

But he doesn't bat .300. He doesn't hit 30 bombs, or drive in 100 rbi, or score 100 runs, or steal 30 bases. He's actually good enough on defense that he doesn't have to make the flashy, diving plays that get him noticed on sportscenter. And that's why he's undervalued. Look at how much value he's provided his teams over the years.

 

2002 - $12.6 million

2003 - $13.0 million

2004 - $10.0 million

2005 - $7.0 million

2006 - $16.2 million

2007 - $8.9 million

2008 - $18.1 million

2009 - $19.4 million

 

Yes, he's entered the age range where it'd be a mistake to commit to him long term. But I'd be shocked if he gets a better deal than Bobby Abreu just got (2 years, $19 million). At that pricetag, it's absolutely foolish of the people in this thread to dismiss him.

Actually what Cameron is a good litmus test for is, how much you believe in sabermetrics.

 

I don't want to get into a big long stats vs. scouts debate, but suffice it to say that those dollar figures are not the be-all, end-all to determine who knows what the hell they're talking about when evaluating players. (30 HRs and 100 RBIs etc clearly aren't either, obviously.)

[Rob]

For a long time, Mike Cameron has functioned as the litmus test to determine whether somebody knows what the hell they're talking about when evaluating players. He doesn't do the flashy stuff. He takes a bunch of walks. His power production comes from moderate amounts of doubles and home runs. He steals a decent number of bases at a pretty good rate. He plays exceptional defense.

 

But he doesn't bat .300. He doesn't hit 30 bombs, or drive in 100 rbi, or score 100 runs, or steal 30 bases. He's actually good enough on defense that he doesn't have to make the flashy, diving plays that get him noticed on sportscenter. And that's why he's undervalued. Look at how much value he's provided his teams over the years.

 

2002 - $12.6 million

2003 - $13.0 million

2004 - $10.0 million

2005 - $7.0 million

2006 - $16.2 million

2007 - $8.9 million

2008 - $18.1 million

2009 - $19.4 million

 

Yes, he's entered the age range where it'd be a mistake to commit to him long term. But I'd be shocked if he gets a better deal than Bobby Abreu just got (2 years, $19 million). At that pricetag, it's absolutely foolish of the people in this thread to dismiss him.

Actually what Cameron is a good litmus test for is, how much you believe in sabermetrics.

 

I don't want to get into a big long stats vs. scouts debate, but suffice it to say that those dollar figures are not the be-all, end-all to determine who knows what the hell they're talking about when evaluating players. (30 HRs and 100 RBIs etc clearly aren't either, obviously.)

 

I didn't mean to imply those dollar figures were exact. Based on methodology, there's surely some wiggle to them.

 

But there is no debating that Mike Cameron is a very productive baseball player.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

I'd be down for a year of Cameron. Still a solid defender with a non-empty stat line.

[RedFlash]

I'd be down for a year of Cameron. Still a solid defender with a non-empty stat line.

 

You upgrade defensively going from Dome/Bradley to Cameron/Dome, so I wouldn't mind a 1 yr (with a club option for 2011) deal for Cameron.

[TheDude]

he's going to be 37. no way.

 

That's actually a good thing. It ensures a short-term deal for a team that desperately needs short-term deals. Cameron isn't going to give you stud numbers, but his physical conditioning has shown a shorter decline curve than you'd expect out of a 34+CF.

[rocket]

he's going to be 37. no way.

 

That's actually a good thing. It ensures a short-term deal for a team that desperately needs short-term deals. Cameron isn't going to give you stud numbers, but his physical conditioning has shown a shorter decline curve than you'd expect out of a 34+CF.

 

i love cameron. but at some point he's going to fall off a cliff. we're probably just as well off keeping kosuke in cf without adding to the payroll.

[davearm2]

he's going to be 37. no way.

 

That's actually a good thing. It ensures a short-term deal for a team that desperately needs short-term deals. Cameron isn't going to give you stud numbers, but his physical conditioning has shown a shorter decline curve than you'd expect out of a 34+CF.

 

i love cameron. but at some point he's going to fall off a cliff. we're probably just as well off keeping kosuke in cf without adding to the payroll.

Why is it a foregone conclusion that Cameron (or any player) is going to fall off a cliff, rather than decline gradually over several seasons? Seems to me the latter would be the more common outcome, generally.

[rocket]

he's going to be 37. no way.

 

That's actually a good thing. It ensures a short-term deal for a team that desperately needs short-term deals. Cameron isn't going to give you stud numbers, but his physical conditioning has shown a shorter decline curve than you'd expect out of a 34+CF.

 

i love cameron. but at some point he's going to fall off a cliff. we're probably just as well off keeping kosuke in cf without adding to the payroll.

Why is it a foregone conclusion that Cameron (or any player) is going to fall off a cliff, rather than decline gradually over several seasons? Seems to me the latter would be the more common outcome, generally.

 

it's not a foregone conclusion. but cameron's biggest assets are his defense and power, 2 things that go away quickly with age. he has good plate discipline, but his ba is so low that his obp is rarely respectable. i think the risks are too great with cameron, and i don't think he'll match the production kosuke provided last year.

[Guest]

it's not a foregone conclusion. but cameron's biggest assets are his defense and power, 2 things that go away quickly with age. he has good plate discipline, but his ba is so low that his obp is rarely respectable. i think the risks are too great with cameron, and i don't think he'll match the production kosuke provided last year.

Just what the Cubs need, get older and get no better.

 

I've said this before, but if I'm Ricketts I don't put any money into the big league club and let this group play out. One thing I wouldn't do is give Cameron a typical Hendry contract, One or two years and a vesting requirement for another year.

 

I'd try to find a way to get out from under Soriano's contract as soon as possible and invest in the future.

 

This team isn't going anywhere for the foreseeable future.

[Backtobanks]

it's not a foregone conclusion. but cameron's biggest assets are his defense and power, 2 things that go away quickly with age. he has good plate discipline, but his ba is so low that his obp is rarely respectable. i think the risks are too great with cameron, and i don't think he'll match the production kosuke provided last year.

Just what the Cubs need, get older and get no better.

 

I've said this before, but if I'm Ricketts I don't put any money into the big league club and let this group play out. One thing I wouldn't do is give Cameron a typical Hendry contract, One or two years and a vesting requirement for another year.

 

I'd try to find a way to get out from under Soriano's contract as soon as possible and invest in the future.

 

This team isn't going anywhere for the foreseeable future.

 

Hope springs eternal.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Let's not be ridiculous here. Cameron's older and therefore not a super long term solution, but he unequivocally makes the team better.

[Guest]

it's not a foregone conclusion. but cameron's biggest assets are his defense and power, 2 things that go away quickly with age. he has good plate discipline, but his ba is so low that his obp is rarely respectable. i think the risks are too great with cameron, and i don't think he'll match the production kosuke provided last year.

Just what the Cubs need, get older and get no better.

 

I've said this before, but if I'm Ricketts I don't put any money into the big league club and let this group play out. One thing I wouldn't do is give Cameron a typical Hendry contract, One or two years and a vesting requirement for another year.

 

I'd try to find a way to get out from under Soriano's contract as soon as possible and invest in the future.

 

This team isn't going anywhere for the foreseeable future.

 

Hope springs eternal.

The only thing I can be optimistic about for this group is that they play in the NL Central.

[Guest]

Let's not be ridiculous here. Cameron's older and therefore not a super long term solution, but he unequivocally makes the team better.

I'm not seeing it. If they have to pay Cameron 6 or 7 million per year and move Fukudome to RF and then pay someone else to platoon with him I don't see how this makes the team better. Fukudome is a decent CFer but if you move him to RF he looses a lot of value.

 

Keep Fukudome in CF and try to find a cheap RF option. Or trade Fukudome for someone who can play RF and hit for more power.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Cameron has been a 4 WAR player 3 of the last 4 years. Bradley had a 1 WAR last year. Even with Cameron significantly regressing and the positional adjustment it's a big benefit. Plus Fukudome's defense plays way up in RF.