Re: Kerry Wood: Black players got racist mail

[Derwood]

I hate white people, does that make me racist?

[javy knows my name]

When you're a little older, hopefully you'll learn just how wrong everything you've said in this thread is. At the very least, you'll learn to keep those thoughts to yourself

[Rob]

"Give aid?"

 

LULZ

 

You know damn well what I mean. Social and economic programs designed to primarily benefit african americans. Affirmative action, educational grants, etc... the system as it's set up now does not give everybody equal opportunities. But feeling guilty about slavery shouldn't have anything to do with whether or not you feel they deserve the assistance provided by those programs. There are much better reasons to help.

 

I don't know what your problem is with me using the word "aid", as most of those programs absolutely fit the definition. But you feel free to go on LULZing. It's exactly the sort of arrogant, dismissive, and ignorant behavior we've all come to expect from you when anything remotely political comes up.

[Sammy Sofa]

"Give aid?"

 

LULZ

 

You know damn well what I mean. Social and economic programs designed to primarily benefit african americans. Affirmative action, educational grants, etc... the system as it's set up now does not give everybody equal opportunities. But feeling guilty about slavery shouldn't have anything to do with whether or not you feel they deserve the assistance provided by those programs. There are much better reasons to help.

 

I don't know what your problem is with me using the word "aid", as most of those programs absolutely fit the definition. But you feel free to go on LULZing. It's exactly the sort of arrogant, dismissive, and ignorant behavior we've all come to expect from you when anything remotely political comes up.

 

Only when something ridiculous that's remotely political comes up.

 

Nobody brought up "feeling guilty over slavery" or "white guilt."

 

And I laugh at "give aid" because whether you meant it or not (and it doesn't seem like you did with your clarification) it's still indicative of the "keep them at arm's length" attitude that's basically built into us. No, it's not attempts to simply make America fair for all Americans after centuries of disparity, something that's going to take a long time to accomplish. No, it's "giving aid," as if they're third world peoples who need our charity and pity. "Giving aid" makes me laugh because it makes it sound like benevolent generosity from on high being deemed to share with those less fortunate as opposed to the basic obligation we should feel as human beings to make sure all of our country is as truly equal as we want to claim. It seems you recognize this at least in part from the post above, but the term "giving aid" made me laugh because it's reflective of how deep the racial divide is in this country even when people aren't being malicious because of it. These aren't and should not be issues of "guilt;" they should just be the result of facing up to the reality of how our society works now and how we want it to function in the future. "Giving aid" denigrates it all to sounding like handouts.

 

And the social and economic programs you generalize are not designed to primarily help African Americans: they're designed to help any of the disenfranchised in our country, or groups that have been deprived their fair slice. Things like affirmative action have been far more beneficial to white women more than any other group. This isn't an issue of only creating avenues to assist the long process of levelling the playing field racially in America, nor are they designed to help African Americans above anyone else.

[Rob]

"Give aid?"

 

LULZ

 

You know damn well what I mean. Social and economic programs designed to primarily benefit african americans. Affirmative action, educational grants, etc... the system as it's set up now does not give everybody equal opportunities. But feeling guilty about slavery shouldn't have anything to do with whether or not you feel they deserve the assistance provided by those programs. There are much better reasons to help.

 

I don't know what your problem is with me using the word "aid", as most of those programs absolutely fit the definition. But you feel free to go on LULZing. It's exactly the sort of arrogant, dismissive, and ignorant behavior we've all come to expect from you when anything remotely political comes up.

 

Only when something ridiculous that's remotely political comes up.

 

Nobody brought up "feeling guilty over slavery" or "white guilt."

 

There are Countless programs supporting African Americans, there is a United Negro College Fund, and the media and the schools tell us everyday how horrible white people were/are. Bottom line, what my great granddaddy did to another black kid's great granddaddy should not have any effect on me or him. I didn't own slaves, nor do I think any white man still living right now ever owned slaves (I could be wrong on that). All the wrongs that were imposed of African Americans (yes there are plenty of them, yes they were terrible) are a thing of the past. Not only that but the government, universities, and private groups pour millions of dollars specifically into helping black people. Let the past be the past and lets move on from mistakes our ancestors made.

 

we've screwed you over for two centuries.... let's call it even.

 

Yeah, white guilt was brought up.

 

And I laugh at "give aid" because whether you meant it or not (and it doesn't seem like you did with your clarification) it's still indicative of the "keep them at arm's length" attitude that's basically built into us. No, it's not attempts to simply make America fair for all Americans after centuries of disparity, something that's going to take a long time to accomplish. No, it's "giving aid," as if they're third world peoples who need our charity and pity. "Giving aid" makes me laugh because it makes it sound like benevolent generosity from on high being deemed to share with those less fortunate as opposed to the basic obligation we should feel as human beings to make sure all of our country is as truly equal as we want to claim. It seems you recognize this at least in part from the post above, but the term "giving aid" made me laugh because it's reflective of how deep the racial divide is in this country even when people aren't being malicious because of it. These aren't and should not be issues of "guilt;" they should just be the result of facing up to the reality of how our society works now and how we want it to function in the future. "Giving aid" denigrates it all to sounding like handouts.

 

I sure hope you aren't trying to imply I'm subconsciously being a racist because you don't agree with the terminology I used...

[Sammy Sofa]

I guess that just goes to show my foe list isn't always working in my favor.

 

And no, I'm not saying that about you. That's a perception we all have to some degree whether we want it or not.

[Rob]

Fair enough.

 

Just because I like to talk about myself in a positive light, I will say this. I have done a lot of volunteer work at food banks in some very poor and predominately african american communities. That's actually why I think I used the term aid... we handed out "aid boxes." Maybe some cranky old republican labeled them those being a bit racist himself. Maybe I used the term because I was being racist. Maybe it's not racist at all. All I know is that you get a lot further judging a person by their actions than simply by their choice of words.

[TruffleShuffle]

i'm suggesting that after digging a hole for a particular race for 200 years, it might be nice to throw them a ladder rather than making them climb out of the hole on their own.

[Sammy Sofa]

Fair enough.

 

Just because I like to talk about myself in a positive light, I will say this. I have done a lot of volunteer work at food banks in some very poor and predominately african american communities. That's actually why I think I used the term aid... we handed out "aid boxes." Maybe some cranky old republican labeled them those being a bit racist himself. Maybe I used the term because I was being racist. Maybe it's not racist at all. All I know is that you get a lot further judging a person by their actions than simply by their choice of words.

 

It's beyond an issue of "racism" and just the inherrent sense of "us" and "them" that we all have to varying degrees.

[Skyballer]

we've screwed you over for two centuries.... let's call it even.

We have, really? So me and you, along with the other people on this board have not only been around for two centuries, but we've spent it screwing over black people? Funny, I don't recall being 200 years old and I don't recall screwing over black people. Have you, someone else on this board? Please enlighten me.

[soapy]

we've screwed you over for two centuries.... let's call it even.

We have, really? So me and you, along with the other people on this board have not only been around for two centuries, but we've spent it screwing over black people? Funny, I don't recall being 200 years old and I don't recall screwing over black people. Have you, someone else on this board? Please enlighten me.

 

45-50 years ago a black person couldn't even sit in the same restaurant or drink from the same drinking fountain as whites in many places. It's disingenuous to act like civil rights injustices in this country took place eons ago in a time that nobody can remember.

[Skyballer]

we've screwed you over for two centuries.... let's call it even.

We have, really? So me and you, along with the other people on this board have not only been around for two centuries, but we've spent it screwing over black people? Funny, I don't recall being 200 years old and I don't recall screwing over black people. Have you, someone else on this board? Please enlighten me.

 

45-50 years ago a black person couldn't even sit in the same restaurant or drink from the same drinking fountain as whites in many places. It's disingenuous to act like civil rights injustices in this country took place eons ago in a time that nobody can remember.

Fair enough, thats still a generations difference and its still something that the majority of white people either weren't aroud for or didn't support. Blatant racism or hatred towards white people is no more justified than any other form of racism.

[soapy]

we've screwed you over for two centuries.... let's call it even.

We have, really? So me and you, along with the other people on this board have not only been around for two centuries, but we've spent it screwing over black people? Funny, I don't recall being 200 years old and I don't recall screwing over black people. Have you, someone else on this board? Please enlighten me.

 

45-50 years ago a black person couldn't even sit in the same restaurant or drink from the same drinking fountain as whites in many places. It's disingenuous to act like civil rights injustices in this country took place eons ago in a time that nobody can remember.

Fair enough, thats still a generations difference and its still something that the majority of white people either weren't aroud for or didn't support. Blatant racism or hatred towards white people is no more justified than any other form of racism.

 

maybe i missed someone saying it is, but i haven't seen that. of course it's not.

 

i've tried not to comment too much in this thread because i'm sure this is a topic people will never agree on, but i think expecting hundreds of years of oppression (to put it very mildly) to be completely swept away and forgotten by the parties involved (particularly the oppressed) in a generation is completely irrational. i think you also underestimate the number of people still active in our society who lived through some of these things.

[Skyballer]

we've screwed you over for two centuries.... let's call it even.

We have, really? So me and you, along with the other people on this board have not only been around for two centuries, but we've spent it screwing over black people? Funny, I don't recall being 200 years old and I don't recall screwing over black people. Have you, someone else on this board? Please enlighten me.

 

45-50 years ago a black person couldn't even sit in the same restaurant or drink from the same drinking fountain as whites in many places. It's disingenuous to act like civil rights injustices in this country took place eons ago in a time that nobody can remember.

Fair enough, thats still a generations difference and its still something that the majority of white people either weren't aroud for or didn't support. Blatant racism or hatred towards white people is no more justified than any other form of racism.

 

maybe i missed someone saying it is, but i haven't seen that. of course it's not.

 

i've tried not to comment too much in this thread because i'm sure this is a topic people will never agree on, but i think expecting hundreds of years of oppression (to put it very mildly) to be completely swept away and forgotten by the parties involved (particularly the oppressed) in a generation is completely irrational. i think you also underestimate the number of people still active in our society who lived through some of these things.

Adding to what banks said, In my personal experience (which apparently isnt allowed on NSBB) black people tend to be more racist against white people then visa versa. I'm not saying that all or even the majority of blacks are racist, nor am I saying that there arent racist people, and nor am I claiming that this is fact. But i will add my two cents of personal experience and tell you that that is what ive seen.

 

It's amazing that some of the people expressly marginalized as "surplus people" socially, economically and politically over the entire history of this country wouldn't be too fond of the people that that society was designed to benefit and empower the most.

 

That, to me, is an attempt to justify black hatred/racism towards white people.

 

As for the second part, the history does not change, you're right about that. However to blame people for it today, or to use it to justify or explain racism or hatred is dead wrong.

[jam1975]

Nothing to see here, people, we have a black man as president. The sins and repercussions of the past have been washed away. Thank you black jesus, obama, for cleansing me of my white guilt.

[Derwood]

Nothing to see here, people, we have a black man as president. The sins and repercussions of the past have been washed away. Thank you black jesus, obama, for cleansing me of my white guilt.

 

what the [expletive]

[Uber]

Nothing to see here, people, we have a black man as president. The sins and repercussions of the past have been washed away. Thank you black jesus, obama, for cleansing me of my white guilt.

 

what the [expletive]

 

Location: Columbia, MO

[Sammy Sofa]

That, to me, is an attempt to justify black hatred/racism towards white people.

 

Though you'll likely refute it it, you need to see that white racism and black prejudice (I differentiate because I think racism hinges on power. You can still be prejudiced as [expletive], however, without power) come from profoundly different places. The contexts, both today and historically, are completely different, so to compare the two equally is both the height of irony and intellectually dishonest. That's not justifying black prejudice across the board, but to generalize it as being the same as white racism simply isn't realistic.

[Guest]

That, to me, is an attempt to justify black hatred/racism towards white people.

 

Though you'll likely refute it it, you need to see that white racism and black prejudice (I differentiate because I think racism hinges on power. You can still be prejudiced as [expletive], however, without power) come from profoundly different places. The contexts, both today and historically, are completely different, so to compare the two equally is both the height of irony and intellectually dishonest. That's not justifying black prejudice across the board, but to generalize it as being the same as white racism simply isn't realistic.

You are exactly correct, but I don't think he is intellectually dishonest at all, it's just ignorant. I mean that not a slight but as a condition of being uninformed.

[Skyballer]

That, to me, is an attempt to justify black hatred/racism towards white people.

 

Though you'll likely refute it it, you need to see that white racism and black prejudice (I differentiate because I think racism hinges on power. You can still be prejudiced as [expletive], however, without power) come from profoundly different places. The contexts, both today and historically, are completely different, so to compare the two equally is both the height of irony and intellectually dishonest. That's not justifying black prejudice across the board, but to generalize it as being the same as white racism simply isn't realistic.

If a black person dislikes a white person, or anyone else, because of the color of their skin, its racist. Racism is wrong. I'm not saying that white racism and black racism are the same thing, merely that neither are justified. Black people justify it because they were oppressed. That much is a fact, but its also something that the vast majority of white people today did not participate in. White people use just as bad reason to justify their racism, either because they just think they're better, or they're afraid of black people cause they are more violent, also a fact. The bottom line to me is that both sides are using facts to justify their racism, but they are twisting the facts to make them fit and entire race when they simply don't.

[Tarver]

That, to me, is an attempt to justify black hatred/racism towards white people.

 

Though you'll likely refute it it, you need to see that white racism and black prejudice (I differentiate because I think racism hinges on power. You can still be prejudiced as [expletive], however, without power) come from profoundly different places. The contexts, both today and historically, are completely different, so to compare the two equally is both the height of irony and intellectually dishonest. That's not justifying black prejudice across the board, but to generalize it as being the same as white racism simply isn't realistic.

If a black person dislikes a white person, or anyone else, because of the color of their skin, its racist. Racism is wrong. I'm not saying that white racism and black racism are the same thing, merely that neither are justified. Black people justify it because they were oppressed. That much is a fact, but its also something that the vast majority of white people today did not participate in. White people use just as bad reason to justify their racism, either because they just think they're better, or they're afraid of black people cause they are more violent, also a fact. The bottom line to me is that both sides are using facts to justify their racism, but they are twisting the facts to make them fit and entire race when they simply don't.

 

Racism by definition assumes the prejudicial party is in a position of power. As that is not and has never been the case for blacks in this country, they technically can't be considered racists.

[Skyballer]

That, to me, is an attempt to justify black hatred/racism towards white people.

 

Though you'll likely refute it it, you need to see that white racism and black prejudice (I differentiate because I think racism hinges on power. You can still be prejudiced as [expletive], however, without power) come from profoundly different places. The contexts, both today and historically, are completely different, so to compare the two equally is both the height of irony and intellectually dishonest. That's not justifying black prejudice across the board, but to generalize it as being the same as white racism simply isn't realistic.

If a black person dislikes a white person, or anyone else, because of the color of their skin, its racist. Racism is wrong. I'm not saying that white racism and black racism are the same thing, merely that neither are justified. Black people justify it because they were oppressed. That much is a fact, but its also something that the vast majority of white people today did not participate in. White people use just as bad reason to justify their racism, either because they just think they're better, or they're afraid of black people cause they are more violent, also a fact. The bottom line to me is that both sides are using facts to justify their racism, but they are twisting the facts to make them fit and entire race when they simply don't.

 

Racism by definition assumes the prejudicial party is in a position of power. As that is not and has never been the case for blacks in this country, they technically can't be considered racists.

This is an equal country offering equal power, the highest office in the land is currently held by an African American. We have black representatives and senators as well as black judges and even supreme court justices. Colin Powell was the Secretary of State, Commander in Chief of the US Army Forces Command and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Black people have had their fare share of power in this nation, and it was well deserved.

 

Furthermore, certain definitions of racism assume that the prejudicial party is in a position of power, not all.

[SouthSideRyan]

Skyballer,

 

How many black people do you know?

[Sammy Sofa]

That, to me, is an attempt to justify black hatred/racism towards white people.

 

Though you'll likely refute it it, you need to see that white racism and black prejudice (I differentiate because I think racism hinges on power. You can still be prejudiced as [expletive], however, without power) come from profoundly different places. The contexts, both today and historically, are completely different, so to compare the two equally is both the height of irony and intellectually dishonest. That's not justifying black prejudice across the board, but to generalize it as being the same as white racism simply isn't realistic.

If a black person dislikes a white person, or anyone else, because of the color of their skin, its racist. Racism is wrong. I'm not saying that white racism and black racism are the same thing, merely that neither are justified. Black people justify it because they were oppressed. That much is a fact, but its also something that the vast majority of white people today did not participate in. White people use just as bad reason to justify their racism, either because they just think they're better, or they're afraid of black people cause they are more violent, also a fact. The bottom line to me is that both sides are using facts to justify their racism, but they are twisting the facts to make them fit and entire race when they simply don't.

 

No, they are oppressed. Just because they're not getting whipped and enslaved or having the dogs and fire hoses turned on them on your TV doesn't mean that the racial divide in this country has somehow magically been "fixed" over the last 40 years. If anything, it's even more insidious since it's not so obvious. Who needs slavery when we can just rock on with things like residential segregation, not hiring people because their name "seems black" or intentionally not working with black businesses? You can keep acting like racism in this thing of the past that peple have nothing to do with, but the basic reality is that racist and racial ideas have shaped pretty much every aspect of how whites and blacks interact in this country, with one group coming out way on top and the other intetionally being kept down at the bottom. It's unfortunate that you seem to insist that the playing field is level to the point that everything can be judged equally. It's like you're effectively saying, "hey, knock it off black people. You've got your equality. Now play fair, say thanks and be nice!" "Black racism" does not impact white people in any way, shape or form even remotely similar to how white racism impacts, well, pretty much everyone else. For two groups to be "equally racist," both groups would need to have comparable power. That's pretty [expletive] far from the reality that we have in front of us.

[Sammy Sofa]

This is an equal country offering equal power, the highest office in the land is currently held by an African American. We have black representatives and senators as well as black judges and even supreme court justices. Colin Powell was the Secretary of State, Commander in Chief of the US Army Forces Command and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Black people have had their fare share of power in this nation, and it was well deserved.

 

Oh, OK, everything's fixed. I guess with Obama as President things like redlining, blockbusting and the 15% tipping point for white flight will vanish. All of those studies after studies that show that people whose names are considered or who even just sound "too black" are hired at a dramatically lower rate than white applicants of equal or lesser qualification are now all better, right?