Halladay all but gone from Toronto (or not)

[Keener98]

Rasmus' last few weeks have pretty much guaranteed him Untouchable status. Maybe if Ankiel and Duncan weren't so drop-dead useless, and Ludwick regressing out of All-Star fluke season numbers, the Cards would part with Rasmus - even then, I'd doubt it. As it is, he's the second-best performer in the lineup.

 

I don't think the Cards have what it takes to get Halladay; if not, I guess I'm hoping he stays in the AL or goes to the Phillies.

 

Yea I agree that it would be hard for Stl to trade Rasmus right now, but it shouldnt be "easy" to obtain a guy like Halladay. Brett Wallace is nice, but again if Im the Jays, its Rasmus or no deal.

[Little Slide Rooter]

If Im the Bluejays I dont trade Halladay to Stl without getting Rasmus back, plain and simple.

 

I don't trade him to any team without getting their very best prospect if thats who I want.

 

Whose to say thats not whats going to happen? Ricciardi has made it perfectly clear that it will have to be a great deal to pry him away, and despite the thread title, hes not all but gone from Toronto. Whoever gets Halladay gets one of the best and the most underrated pitcher in the game today for 1.5 years, and the package will probably have to exceed those for Sabathia, Holiday, and Bedard.

[ManEatingTarp]

Viva El Birdos had a pretty good view of it from the Cardinal fan perspective.

 

 

http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2009/7/8/941625/roamin-halladay

[Guest]

Whoever gets him will get a bargain no matter who or how many prospects they give up.

[SouthSideRyan]

I'm not convinced he's going anywhere.

[shnsajax]

If Im the Bluejays I dont trade Halladay to Stl without getting Rasmus back, plain and simple.

 

I don't trade him to any team without getting their very best prospect if thats who I want.

 

Whose to say thats not whats going to happen? Ricciardi has made it perfectly clear that it will have to be a great deal to pry him away, and despite the thread title, hes not all but gone from Toronto. Whoever gets Halladay gets one of the best and the most underrated pitcher in the game today for 1.5 years, and the package will probably have to exceed those for Sabathia, Holiday, and Bedard.

 

And thats the thing, he doesn't have to trade him now. He can wait until the offseason or until next year. If its going to happen, he might as well start getting some info back from other teams. With Peavy on the shelf, the market for a #1 is pretty much dead. Personally I would take him over Sabathia, Peavy, and just about anyone else out there. He is one guy I am not concerned about his innings total over the past couple of years.

[shnsajax]

I'm not convinced he's going anywhere.

 

I think he will over the next 12 months, maybe just not before the deadline. That division is so tough, if they can get 4 legit prospects for him then why not. If you know he won't leave after his contract then maybe look at keeping him.

[SouthSideRyan]

Toronto isn't a small market club, and Halladay has made no public overtures about wanting out, in fact he seems to like it there. I think this is a lot more winning clubs thinking they can have whatever they want than the Blue Jays actively shopping him.

[shnsajax]

Toronto isn't a small market club, and Halladay has made no public overtures about wanting out, in fact he seems to like it there. I think this is a lot more winning clubs thinking they can have whatever they want than the Blue Jays actively shopping him.

 

I think he prefers the smaller market, just seems to have that kind of personality.

 

I wonder if the Rangers would consider trying for him. They certainly have the prospects for him, and would put them as the clear front runner in the West. I just don't know if they are willing to part with their prospects. I do think Nolan Ryan would like to have a legit #1 over Millwood should they make the playoffs.

[Backtobanks]

Toronto isn't a small market club, and Halladay has made no public overtures about wanting out, in fact he seems to like it there. I think this is a lot more winning clubs thinking they can have whatever they want than the Blue Jays actively shopping him.

 

I think he prefers the smaller market, just seems to have that kind of personality.

 

I wonder if the Rangers would consider trying for him. They certainly have the prospects for him, and would put them as the clear front runner in the West. I just don't know if they are willing to part with their prospects. I do think Nolan Ryan would like to have a legit #1 over Millwood should they make the playoffs.

 

Rangers can't afford a big hit in the payroll department.

[XZero771679666304]

Rasmus' last few weeks have pretty much guaranteed him Untouchable status. Maybe if Ankiel and Duncan weren't so drop-dead useless, and Ludwick regressing out of All-Star fluke season numbers, the Cards would part with Rasmus - even then, I'd doubt it. As it is, he's the second-best performer in the lineup.

 

I don't think the Cards have what it takes to get Halladay; if not, I guess I'm hoping he stays in the AL or goes to the Phillies.

 

Yea I agree that it would be hard for Stl to trade Rasmus right now, but it shouldnt be "easy" to obtain a guy like Halladay. Brett Wallace is nice, but again if Im the Jays, its Rasmus or no deal.

 

As thin as the SP market is and considering Halladay is arguably the best starter in the game with time left on his contract, a guy like Rasmus would just be the starting point. I sincerely doubt anyone is getting him without giving up young, quality MLB talent.

 

To give an idea, I think a team like the Brewers would have to give up Prince + Gamel or Escobar and some throw-ins.

 

J.P. Ricciardi is squarely in the driver's seat here.

[ManEatingTarp]

 

To give an idea, I think a team like the Brewers would have to give up Prince + Gamel or Escobar and some throw-ins.

 

 

Uh. no.

An established 50+ HR hitter and the top two prospects that are very highly touted in all of baseball.

 

Replace Prince with J.J. Hardy and I think we're closer.

[Butterscup1679666578]

28 HRs, 50 HRs, and 34 HRs = established 50+ HR hitter?

[XZero771679666304]

 

To give an idea, I think a team like the Brewers would have to give up Prince + Gamel or Escobar and some throw-ins.

 

 

Uh. no.

An established 50+ HR hitter and the top two prospects that are very highly touted in all of baseball.

 

Replace Prince with J.J. Hardy and I think we're closer.

 

I don't think so. Hardy has really stunk this year. Prince is the obvious target, and a fair one, considering.

 

Plus I said Gamel or Escobar, not both.

Edited July 9, 2009 by XZero77

[Keener98]

Rasmus' last few weeks have pretty much guaranteed him Untouchable status. Maybe if Ankiel and Duncan weren't so drop-dead useless, and Ludwick regressing out of All-Star fluke season numbers, the Cards would part with Rasmus - even then, I'd doubt it. As it is, he's the second-best performer in the lineup.

 

I don't think the Cards have what it takes to get Halladay; if not, I guess I'm hoping he stays in the AL or goes to the Phillies.

 

Yea I agree that it would be hard for Stl to trade Rasmus right now, but it shouldnt be "easy" to obtain a guy like Halladay. Brett Wallace is nice, but again if Im the Jays, its Rasmus or no deal.

 

As thin as the SP market is and considering Halladay is arguably the best starter in the game with time left on his contract, a guy like Rasmus would just be the starting point. I sincerely doubt anyone is getting him without giving up young, quality MLB talent.

 

To give an idea, I think a team like the Brewers would have to give up Prince + Gamel or Escobar and some throw-ins.

 

J.P. Ricciardi is squarely in the driver's seat here.

 

 

Yea I was in noway trying to say itd be Rasmus for Halladay straight up. Im saying Rasmus would be the starting point for me if Im the Jays, and then go from there, but he wouldnt be traded to Stl without Rasmus in the deal if Im Ricciardi.

[XZero771679666304]

 

 

Yea I was in noway trying to say itd be Rasmus for Halladay straight up. Im saying Rasmus would be the starting point for me if Im the Jays, and then go from there, but he wouldnt be traded to Stl without Rasmus in the deal if Im Ricciardi.

 

If a heated race to land Halladay starts up, I'm not sure the Cards could put together a competitive offer even with Rasmus included.

 

J.P. is probably going to want quality player(s) to plug in at 1B, SS or 3B. STL can't really offer that.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

 

 

Yea I was in noway trying to say itd be Rasmus for Halladay straight up. Im saying Rasmus would be the starting point for me if Im the Jays, and then go from there, but he wouldnt be traded to Stl without Rasmus in the deal if Im Ricciardi.

 

If a heated race to land Halladay starts up, I'm not sure the Cards could put together a competitive offer even with Rasmus included.

 

J.P. is probably going to want quality player(s) to plug in at 1B, SS or 3B. STL can't really offer that.

 

 

I disagree Rasmus is a starting point. Before today's game he had the 11th highest WAR for position players in the NL. Not that it will happen, but Rasmus alone is more than enough to get the deal done.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Cardinals Have "Real" Interest In Halladay

By Drew Silva [July 8 at 9:34pm CST]

According to Joe Strauss of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, the Cardinals' interest in Blue Jays ace Roy Halladay is very real.

 

Here's what Strauss tweeted just a moment ago: Asked about the price tag for Halladay, a club source said: "Give Ricciardi all our minor-league rosters and let him circle any 5 names."

 

A deal with the Cardinals would start with Brett Wallace, and might also include shortstop Pete Kozma, catcher Bryan Anderson, outfielder Daryl Jones and/or right-hander Clay Mortensen. We're just throwing the Birds' top prospects out on the table, but that's what it's going to take. According to Erik Manning of FutureRedbirds.net, via the Post-Dispatch's Bernie Miklasz, the Jays "showed a lot of pre-draft interest" in both Wallace and Kozma.

 

Im really hoping the Phillies make with a big offer.

[ManEatingTarp]

Plus I said Gamel or Escobar, not both.

 

My mistake.

That makes more sense.

 

Unless the Brewers are convinced (and they may be) that Prince is going to walk as soon as he can, I don't see them making that deal.

Even though they are pitching starved, and it would probably make them a better team.

[RedVerbs]

 

 

Yea I was in noway trying to say itd be Rasmus for Halladay straight up. Im saying Rasmus would be the starting point for me if Im the Jays, and then go from there, but he wouldnt be traded to Stl without Rasmus in the deal if Im Ricciardi.

 

If a heated race to land Halladay starts up, I'm not sure the Cards could put together a competitive offer even with Rasmus included.

 

J.P. is probably going to want quality player(s) to plug in at 1B, SS or 3B. STL can't really offer that.

 

 

I disagree Rasmus is a starting point. Before today's game he had the 11th highest WAR for position players in the NL. Not that it will happen, but Rasmus alone is more than enough to get the deal done.

 

Agreed. Rasmus and a lower level prospect for Halladay is well more than enough. I don't think people actually comprehend how good Rasmus is, in his rookie season at 22 years of age.

 

I wouldn't even think about trading Rasmus for any pitcher, but I would trade Wallace, Daryl Hones and anyone else they wanted in the minors for Halladay. Toronto drafted Wallace back in 2005 (But he went to college instead), so they would definitely seem to be interested in him.

[Keener98]

I dont know I dont want to see Halladay a Cardinal, but their problem hasnt been pitching, its offense like ours. And I think we have proven enough this year that no matter how good your pitching is, it really doesnt matter if you cant score runs. Also, Id be all for Stl emptying their system for Halladay, and then signing him to an extension, with the majority of their payroll would be locked up in Pujols and Halladay. Wouldnt be ideal, but it wouldnt be a killer for the Cubs either.

[RedVerbs]

I dont know I dont want to see Halladay a Cardinal, but their problem hasnt been pitching, its offense like ours. And I think we have proven enough this year that no matter how good your pitching is, it really doesnt matter if you cant score runs. Also, Id be all for Stl emptying their system for Halladay, and then signing him to an extension, with the majority of their payroll would be locked up in Pujols and Halladay. Wouldnt be ideal, but it wouldnt be a killer for the Cubs either.

 

True, offense is the big issue for the Cardinals, though Wainwright, Carpenter and Halladay seems like something you can't pass up if it's possible (Not sure it is). As far as the system goes, we'd still have Shelby Miller and Mateo (Who both can't be moved), to replenish the system right away after the trade for Halladay, so it wouldn't completely kill us. (Move from a top 10 system, to more of a top 15-20 system).

 

I think if a team is willing to take Vernon Wells contract, they might be able to get Halladay for next to nothing, but only teams I can see doing that are the Mets, Red Sox and the Yankees.

[Guest]

 

 

Yea I was in noway trying to say itd be Rasmus for Halladay straight up. Im saying Rasmus would be the starting point for me if Im the Jays, and then go from there, but he wouldnt be traded to Stl without Rasmus in the deal if Im Ricciardi.

 

If a heated race to land Halladay starts up, I'm not sure the Cards could put together a competitive offer even with Rasmus included.

 

J.P. is probably going to want quality player(s) to plug in at 1B, SS or 3B. STL can't really offer that.

 

 

I disagree Rasmus is a starting point. Before today's game he had the 11th highest WAR for position players in the NL. Not that it will happen, but Rasmus alone is more than enough to get the deal done.

 

Agreed. Rasmus and a lower level prospect for Halladay is well more than enough. I don't think people actually comprehend how good Rasmus is, in his rookie season at 22 years of age.

 

I wouldn't even think about trading Rasmus for any pitcher, but I would trade Wallace, Daryl Hones and anyone else they wanted in the minors for Halladay. Toronto drafted Wallace back in 2005 (But he went to college instead), so they would definitely seem to be interested in him.

You guys are crazy Cardinal fans. They have Vernon Wells who is better than Rasmus right now and Rasmus is nowhere near the value of Doc, nor will he ever be.

[dew1679666265]

[i think if a team is willing to take Vernon Wells contract, they might be able to get Halladay for next to nothing, but only teams I can see doing that are the Mets, Red Sox and the Yankees.

 

The only reason they're considering trading Halladay is because they might not be able to afford him due to Wells' contract. I don't see the two being moved together (or the acquiring team being able to afford both - save for the Yankees and Red Sox).

[dew1679666265]

You guys are crazy Cardinal fans. They have Vernon Wells who is better than Rasmus right now and Rasmus is nowhere near the value of Doc, nor will he ever be.

 

Wells: .731 OPS, .264 EqA

 

Rasmus: .823 OPS, .286 EqA

 

I don't think Rasmus alone would be enough for Halladay, but Rasmus is probably as good (or close to it) as Wells is right now.