Halladay all but gone from Toronto (or not)

[Sever82]

Listening to sports radio yesterday today on both 670 and 1000, i still dont get how people regard Beckham as an untouchable prospect. Listening Mully and Hanley this morning when the subject about trading Beckham for Halladay they both quickly responded by saying that they wouldn't trade Beckham in a trade for Halladay and then when comparing what the cubs could offer to what the sox could offer, they said the cubs dont have a beckham in their farm system. So Vitters quickly came to mind for me, I know Beckham is older but who of the two do you think GMs think is a better prospect. I'm not sure of who has the better minor league numbers so does anyone actually think beckham is the hands down better prospect or is this basically inconclusive for now.

 

Take anything Mully, Hanley, Boers, Bernstein, or any of the other radio bunch says with a grain of salt.

 

Pretty much, it just had me thinking. I keep forgetting which one of Mully or Hanley is the supposed Cubs fan. Everytime i hear him talk about the cubs or white sox i start to believe that he's more a white sox fan than a cubs fan. They always seem to talk positively about the Sox and their organization but yet are quick to talk smack about the cubs. I guess thats what you get when you listen to a sox radio station, i'm pretty sure when they began the show, the producers looked at them and said, "well one of you needs to be a cubs fan or else it would look bad on us if we have two sox fans talking about chicago baseball."

[Sever82]

Beckham is hitting .261, does that make him a stud prospect? i mean he's had a few good games lately but with such a small sample i doubt that proves he can hit MLB Level pitching.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Listening to sports radio yesterday today on both 670 and 1000, i still dont get how people regard Beckham as an untouchable prospect. Listening Mully and Hanley this morning when the subject about trading Beckham for Halladay they both quickly responded by saying that they wouldn't trade Beckham in a trade for Halladay and then when comparing what the cubs could offer to what the sox could offer, they said the cubs dont have a beckham in their farm system. So Vitters quickly came to mind for me, I know Beckham is older but who of the two do you think GMs think is a better prospect. I'm not sure of who has the better minor league numbers so does anyone actually think beckham is the hands down better prospect or is this basically inconclusive for now.

 

Take anything Mully, Hanley, Boers, Bernstein, or any of the other radio bunch says with a grain of salt.

 

Pretty much, it just had me thinking. I keep forgetting which one of Mully or Hanley is the supposed Cubs fan. Everytime i hear him talk about the cubs or white sox i start to believe that he's more a white sox fan than a cubs fan. They always seem to talk positively about the Sox and their organization but yet are quick to talk smack about the cubs. I guess thats what you get when you listen to a sox radio station, i'm pretty sure when they began the show, the producers looked at them and said, "well one of you needs to be a cubs fan or else it would look bad on us if we have two sox fans talking about chicago baseball."

 

In all of those shows, they're pretty much fans of whichever team happens to be doing well at the time. Back when the White Sox were struggling to score runs, they were the most pathetic team on earth and they should have had a fire sale then and there. Now the White Sox are the best thing since individually wrapped slices of american cheese.

[dew1679666265]

Beckham is a natural SS, and is proving he can hit, and hit well at the MLB level.

 

I would have a real hard time letting go of that.

 

Prospects are just that to me. Until they prove they can perform on the MLB level they're just a name.

 

I wouldn't call .265/.339/.418/.758 with a .252 EqA proving he can hit well in the majors. Those are decent numbers, but not anything that makes me think he's a certain productive major leaguer. He is doing that at 22, though.

 

It's very hard to compare Vitters and Beckham because Vitters is still just 19 and didn't play in college. Beckham is a much more refined hitter who is 3 years older and did play in college. Two completely different players at this point.

[Sever82]

Listening to sports radio yesterday today on both 670 and 1000, i still dont get how people regard Beckham as an untouchable prospect. Listening Mully and Hanley this morning when the subject about trading Beckham for Halladay they both quickly responded by saying that they wouldn't trade Beckham in a trade for Halladay and then when comparing what the cubs could offer to what the sox could offer, they said the cubs dont have a beckham in their farm system. So Vitters quickly came to mind for me, I know Beckham is older but who of the two do you think GMs think is a better prospect. I'm not sure of who has the better minor league numbers so does anyone actually think beckham is the hands down better prospect or is this basically inconclusive for now.

 

Take anything Mully, Hanley, Boers, Bernstein, or any of the other radio bunch says with a grain of salt.

 

Pretty much, it just had me thinking. I keep forgetting which one of Mully or Hanley is the supposed Cubs fan. Everytime i hear him talk about the cubs or white sox i start to believe that he's more a white sox fan than a cubs fan. They always seem to talk positively about the Sox and their organization but yet are quick to talk smack about the cubs. I guess thats what you get when you listen to a sox radio station, i'm pretty sure when they began the show, the producers looked at them and said, "well one of you needs to be a cubs fan or else it would look bad on us if we have two sox fans talking about chicago baseball."

 

In all of those shows, they're pretty much fans of whichever team happens to be doing well at the time. Back when the White Sox were struggling to score runs, they were the most pathetic team on earth and they should have had a fire sale then and there. Now the White Sox are the best thing since individually wrapped slices of american cheese.

 

 

Pretty much, i like listening to ESPN 1000 though because Silvy, Harry and Yurko to me sound like Legit cub fans. They express their frustration with the team but they never turn their back on the team or say its over and blah blah. Carmen Defalco also sounds like a true white sox fan and he's really honest when it comes to whether or not the sox suck or not. To me when listening to 670 the score it just seems like all the baseball talk goes through a sox filter.

[ManEatingTarp]

Beckham is hitting .261, does that make him a stud prospect? i mean he's had a few good games lately but with such a small sample i doubt that proves he can hit MLB Level pitching.

 

He got off to a very slow start in his first 2 weeks.

In the last 2 weeks he's hitting .363 with some pop. We'll see how he looks in his second trip around the league.

 

Yeah, I think of him as a former elite prospect and a future All-Star.

[Sever82]

Beckham is a natural SS, and is proving he can hit, and hit well at the MLB level.

 

I would have a real hard time letting go of that.

 

Prospects are just that to me. Until they prove they can perform on the MLB level they're just a name.

 

I wouldn't call .265/.339/.418/.758 with a .252 EqA proving he can hit well in the majors. Those are decent numbers, but not anything that makes me think he's a certain productive major leaguer. He is doing that at 22, though.

 

It's very hard to compare Vitters and Beckham because Vitters is still just 19 and didn't play in college. Beckham is a much more refined hitter who is 3 years older and did play in college. Two completely different players at this point.

 

Isn't Fox only 4yrs older than Beckham and hitting the ball better? I know Beckham was a highly regarded collegiate player and a 1st round pick but to this point, wouldn't you say Fox is the better player or at least better hitter of the two?

[dew1679666265]

Beckham is a natural SS, and is proving he can hit, and hit well at the MLB level.

 

I would have a real hard time letting go of that.

 

Prospects are just that to me. Until they prove they can perform on the MLB level they're just a name.

 

I wouldn't call .265/.339/.418/.758 with a .252 EqA proving he can hit well in the majors. Those are decent numbers, but not anything that makes me think he's a certain productive major leaguer. He is doing that at 22, though.

 

It's very hard to compare Vitters and Beckham because Vitters is still just 19 and didn't play in college. Beckham is a much more refined hitter who is 3 years older and did play in college. Two completely different players at this point.

 

Isn't Fox only 4yrs older than Beckham and hitting the ball better? I know Beckham was a highly regarded collegiate player and a 1st round pick but to this point, wouldn't you say Fox is the better player or at least better hitter of the two?

 

Beckham has far more upside than Fox ever did. It's too hard to judge either on their MLB stint though, since neither really have a significant number of MLB ABs.

[dew1679666265]

Beckham is hitting .261, does that make him a stud prospect? i mean he's had a few good games lately but with such a small sample i doubt that proves he can hit MLB Level pitching.

 

He got off to a very slow start in his first 2 weeks.

In the last 2 weeks he's hitting .363 with some pop. We'll see how he looks in his second trip around the league.

 

Yeah, I think of him as a former elite prospect and a future All-Star.

 

You don't prove anything in 2 weeks of hitting, though. I agree he's a stud prospect, but not that he's proving he can hit MLB pitching well.

[Sever82]

Beckham is hitting .261, does that make him a stud prospect? i mean he's had a few good games lately but with such a small sample i doubt that proves he can hit MLB Level pitching.

 

He got off to a very slow start in his first 2 weeks.

In the last 2 weeks he's hitting .363 with some pop. We'll see how he looks in his second trip around the league.

 

Yeah, I think of him as a former elite prospect and a future All-Star.

 

He's hitting .340 with 2hrs and 9 Rbis, i wouldn't exactly call that a tear or some pop. He has had a good couple of weeks but i wouldn't exactly say this is the true Beckham. What if he slumps the next two weeks, would you say he's in a funk or that he sucks?

[ManEatingTarp]

Beckham is hitting .261, does that make him a stud prospect? i mean he's had a few good games lately but with such a small sample i doubt that proves he can hit MLB Level pitching.

 

He got off to a very slow start in his first 2 weeks.

In the last 2 weeks he's hitting .363 with some pop. We'll see how he looks in his second trip around the league.

 

Yeah, I think of him as a former elite prospect and a future All-Star.

 

You don't prove anything in 2 weeks of hitting, though. I agree he's a stud prospect, but not that he's proving he can hit MLB pitching well.

 

I agree to an extent. It's really hard to tell until the league makes an adjustment and then see how the player adjusts to that.

Right now he looks the part.

[Vanilla Ice]

When White Sox players get discussed, all of a sudden the Triple Crown numbers start getting cited. :D

[ManEatingTarp]

He's hitting .340 with 2hrs and 9 Rbis, i wouldn't exactly call that a tear or some pop. He has had a good couple of weeks but i wouldn't exactly say this is the true Beckham. What if he slumps the next two weeks, would you say he's in a funk or that he sucks?

 

I never said he was on a tear. I said "some" pop.

I said he was an elite prospect that is now proving he can hit at the MLB level. Considering he's 23 yrs old, is a natural SS and will be under team control for several years, that makes him very difficult to include in any trade.

[Little Slide Rooter]

The thing about Beckham is hes nowhere near his ceiling. This is on the job training. When the Sox brought him up, they knew he probably wasnt major league ready and planned on being out of the race, and this was to be essentially AAAA for Beckham.

[dew1679666265]

I agree to an extent. It's really hard to tell until the league makes an adjustment and then see how the player adjusts to that.

Right now he looks the part.

 

It's just not enough evidence. Any hitter can have a great two-week stretch. I think Beckham will be a very good hitter at some point, but a two week period this year isn't proof of anything.

[UK1679666180]

It's close as far as which one is better between Vitters and Beckham, I'd give the edge to Beckham right now given that is approach is better and defensively (while he's not a natural SS) he's above avg. at 3B if he sticks there as I think he will, while Vitters only projects to avg. at 3B. He doesn't have the bat speed and raw power of Vitters, but he's still above avg. with both.

 

Both are light years ahead of Fox.

 

As far as sports talk DJs trying to break down farm systems, that's why they seem clueless when they have some like Callis on. They basically know a little bit about every topic to hold a conversation with an avg. fan, but unless it is their particular sport (Mulligan FB/Hanley BB), they just try and get by without looking dumb when discussing a subject they seldon follow (like the Cubs farm).

[CardsFanInChiTown]

A source indicated over a dozen teams have asked about Halladay. "Serious" interest: NYY, NYM, STL, MIL, LAD, LAA, BOS

about 15 hours ago from TweetDeck

 

 

 

 

 

 

There were a lot of listing of the usual suspects as the contenders for Halladay. But I found it interesting that multiple executives mentioned the Cardinals and Rangers as viable. Here is why:

 

St. Louis -- The feeling was that the Cardinal system has come a long way and probably now has enough to get a player like this. St. Louis is paying roughly $15 million in dead money this year to Troy Glaus and Adam Kennedy that comes off the books after the season; and Khalil Greene, Todd Wellemeyer and Rick Ankiel probably will go away, as well, providing another $13 million or so in savings. That would allow the Cardinals to more comfortably assume the $15.75 million Halladay is owed in 2010. It would form a dynamic 1-2 atop the rotation in Halladay and Carpenter, who broke in together as Blue Jays in the late 1990s. It would give St. Louis a gigantic boost in a winnable NL Central. And one AL executive added this: "Halladay is the kind of player the Cardinals have acquired over the years, who fell in love with the baseball passion of the city and decided to sign long term at reasonable dollars."

Joel Sherman

 

 

This would be a nice addition.

[ManEatingTarp]

Halladay is EXACTLY the kind of player that Jockety would have gone after.

I don't believe the Cardinals will pull the trigger. They would have to send Wallace, Kozma and probably their next 2 highest prospects. I don't see them doing that.

They SHOULD. But I don't see it happening. It goes against everything we've seen under the new management.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Halladay is EXACTLY the kind of player that Jockety would have gone after.

I don't believe the Cardinals will pull the trigger. They would have to send Wallace, Kozma and probably their next 2 highest prospects. I don't see them doing that.

They SHOULD. But I don't see it happening. It goes against everything we've seen under the new management.

 

 

I disagree. Our best trading chip, Wallace, is a 1B/DH waiting to happen, so he's blocked by the best player in baseball.

 

Personally, I think management is willing to get something done if the deal looks favorable.

[UK1679666180]

Have a newspaper writer piss off DeWitt, it worked with the draft.

[Little Slide Rooter]

The Dodgers have been looking for ways to get Juan Pierre into the lineup and looking for a top of the rotation starter, so if they're willing to build a package around Kemp or Ethier, they could very much be in business.

[ManEatingTarp]

The Dodgers have been looking for ways to get Juan Pierre into the lineup and looking for a top of the rotation starter, so if they're willing to build a package around Kemp or Ethier, they could very much be in business.

 

That actually makes sense.

 

Wow. That would be a sick rotation.

[Keener98]

If Im the Bluejays I dont trade Halladay to Stl without getting Rasmus back, plain and simple.

[Maclowery]

Rasmus' last few weeks have pretty much guaranteed him Untouchable status. Maybe if Ankiel and Duncan weren't so drop-dead useless, and Ludwick regressing out of All-Star fluke season numbers, the Cards would part with Rasmus - even then, I'd doubt it. As it is, he's the second-best performer in the lineup.

 

I don't think the Cards have what it takes to get Halladay; if not, I guess I'm hoping he stays in the AL or goes to the Phillies.

[shnsajax]

If Im the Bluejays I dont trade Halladay to Stl without getting Rasmus back, plain and simple.

 

I don't trade him to any team without getting their very best prospect if thats who I want.