Soriano leaving leadoff spot?

[dew1679666265]

Nate McLouth's career minor league line is:

 

.292, .367, .427, .794

 

In his first two major league seasons he had a .755 and .678 OPS.

 

Therefore Sam Fuld is Nate McLouth The 2nd.

 

McLouth's overall numbers are being pulled down by a rough A+ line. His numbers at Lynchburg (High A in 2002) were .244/.324/.392/.716. He repeated that level and OPSd .797.

 

They then promoted him to AA and he put up an .846 OPS, much better than Fuld has ever done. His 2005 season in AAA at age 23 consisted of a better OBP and SLG than Fuld has been putting up at AA and AAA at ages 26-27.

 

McLouth showed an ability to hit AA and AAA pitching. Fuld has not.

[imb]

And all of this still strikes me as really stupid considering a great many posters on here a year or so ago wanted to have Reggie Willits' children and were talking about these lavish trades to somehow "pry this budding superstar away from the Angels."

 

lol this cannot be true

[David]

:badnews:

[Sammy Sofa]

And all of this still strikes me as really stupid considering a great many posters on here a year or so ago wanted to have Reggie Willits' children and were talking about these lavish trades to somehow "pry this budding superstar away from the Angels."

 

lol this cannot be true

 

I guess he's talking about this:

 

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=46791

 

I suppose a few people thinking he'd be OK in platoon or better than Pie is "wanting to have his children."

[dew1679666265]

And all of this still strikes me as really stupid considering a great many posters on here a year or so ago wanted to have Reggie Willits' children and were talking about these lavish trades to somehow "pry this budding superstar away from the Angels."

 

lol this cannot be true

 

Here's the thread from last year where the Cubs had an interest in Willits.

 

Most of the comments are of the "well, he could be a decent platoon option but he's not that good" and "well, he has a decent OBP, but he can't hit for any power." Generally there was support for paying a little for him, but there wasn't that much excitement from most posters.

[imb]

jeez that would be really embarrassing if someone had just claimed that everyone was clamoring for him

 

oh well

[Arnold Layne]

The only thing I'm "hung up" on is the idea that Fuld should get regular playing time for any kind of indeifnite stretch.

 

I bet you said the same thing about Theriot too.

 

Hoff and Fox are indeed guys who should be considered for such play and room made for them before Sam Fuld even enters the discussion.

 

Yeah they have higher upside but if Fuld can sustain he brings a suitable style of play to the leadoff spot.

 

 

Fukudome has shown sustained stretches where is an excellent player. He also has the history of being an excellent player over in Japan. Granted, that's the Japanese league, but he's shown he's been able to translate that success over here. His dropoff is frustrating, but at least this year he is showing he is still of value if he is able to stick to his awing adjustments. That's likely something it's going to take all year for him to get used to, but he's still showing he can do it.

 

 

This isn't Kiddie Corner Training Skool. He needs to play well for the majority of the year considering his contract. Your apologizing for this outfield is becoming legend.

 

 

Keep him in a platoon with Johnson and CF is fine.

 

....a $14 million player who is used in a platoon. That tells you quite a bit.

 

 

As for Bradley, again, the answer seems simple with his drastic splits: bat him RH and drop him in the order for the time being. He has shown he can produce at all-star levels over his career so I'm all for trying something different that ideally takes the pressure off and he starts hitting. The point with both Bradley and Fukudome is that they have recent track records of success that you want to try and still capitalize on.

 

Bradley has a recent track record of success at the DH spot which keeps his legs fresh. Fuku has no real track record of success in MLB.

 

 

Personally, I'd prefer him to be where he's shown he has the most success once he's able to hit again.

 

We've seen that experiment against real pitching. I believe it's in the "0-6" file.

[inari]

Continuing to bring up the playoffs is an argument that isn't going to win any debates here, man.

[Arnold Layne]

Continuing to bring up the playoffs is an argument that isn't going to win any debates here, man.

 

Soriano is one of the worst hitters in post season history. Not the guy you want starting off your games at that particular point in time.

[Cubbie Swagger]

Soriano hitting as he should does what you ideally want a leadoff hitter to do: generate a LOT of runs. That's the bottom line. For whatever reason, he performs at his best from the leadoff spot and at his best he's a worldbeater.

Runs aren't even an individual stat... you put too much stock into them. It's almost like you don't see the correlation between getting on base and scoring runs. To score a run, all a player can do is get on base (which Soriano doesn't do) and maybe steal bases (which Soriano doesn't do). Past that, it's entirely up to the guy's teammates to drive him in. It's not like Soriano knows some kind of secret where he can score runs on his own.

 

Ichiro has only scored 40 runs this year despite a .367/.402 line. He must be a pretty crappy lead-off hitter, right?

 

When choosing a leadoff hitter, you need to choose someone that has a high OBP, preferably a high AVG, and stolen bases are also a plus. OBP is the most important part, though. The higher the OBP, the higher the chance of scoring runs, period. It's also good to have someone who knows the game and can play small ball. If you have a guy like that in the lead-off spot, the runs will come. Runs are a product of many variables... they don't just happen.

[inari]

You're choosing an overly simplistic definition of "generate runs."

[imb]

Soriano hitting as he should does what you ideally want a leadoff hitter to do: generate a LOT of runs. That's the bottom line. For whatever reason, he performs at his best from the leadoff spot and at his best he's a worldbeater.

Runs aren't even an individual stat... you put too much stock into them. It's almost like you don't see the correlation between getting on base and scoring runs. To score a run, all a player can do is get on base (which Soriano doesn't do) and maybe steal bases (which Soriano doesn't do). Past that, it's entirely up to the guy's teammates to drive him in. It's not like Soriano knows some kind of secret where he can score runs on his own.

 

Ichiro has only scored 40 runs this year despite a .367/.402 line. He must be a pretty crappy lead-off hitter, right?

 

When choosing a leadoff hitter, you need to choose someone that has a high OBP, preferably a high AVG, and stolen bases are also a plus. OBP is the most important part, though. The higher the OBP, the higher the chance of scoring runs, period. It's also good to have someone who knows the game and can play small ball. If you have a guy like that in the lead-off spot, the runs will come. Runs are a product of many variables... they don't just happen.

 

why are you ignoring the ability to get extra bases without stealing? ughh, there's so much wrong here I don't even want to bother, honestly.

[Keener98]

Well everybody got their wish of Soriano moving down, it sure did help the offense huh.

[UMFan83]

Well everybody got their wish of Soriano moving down, it sure did help the offense huh.

 

Yup, 1 game is definitely enough to draw long term conclusions, especially if that one game finds you down 7-0 before the 2nd inning is over.

 

I know you know better but I had to snarkily rely to that statement.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Well everybody got their wish of Soriano moving down, it sure did help the offense huh.

 

Yup, 1 game is definitely enough to draw long term conclusions, especially if that one game finds you down 7-0 before the 2nd inning is over.

 

I know you know better but I had to snarkily rely to that statement.

 

Problem is, we havent moved him down far enough down the order. How about 11th.

[Keener98]

Well everybody got their wish of Soriano moving down, it sure did help the offense huh.

 

Yup, 1 game is definitely enough to draw long term conclusions, especially if that one game finds you down 7-0 before the 2nd inning is over.

 

I know you know better but I had to snarkily rely to that statement.

 

Well I figure if people can suck off Sam Fuld from 2 games and claim hes the "spark" then I can deem the moving Soriano down in the order a failure after 1 game.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Well everybody got their wish of Soriano moving down, it sure did help the offense huh.

 

Yup, 1 game is definitely enough to draw long term conclusions, especially if that one game finds you down 7-0 before the 2nd inning is over.

 

I know you know better but I had to snarkily rely to that statement.

 

Well I figure if people can suck off Sam Fuld from 2 games and claim hes the "spark" then I can deem the moving Soriano down in the order a failure after 1 game.

 

Its not the failure after 1 game at 6th, its the months of failure at leadoff, coupled with the 1 game at 6th.

[Sammy Sofa]

Soriano hitting as he should does what you ideally want a leadoff hitter to do: generate a LOT of runs. That's the bottom line. For whatever reason, he performs at his best from the leadoff spot and at his best he's a worldbeater.

Runs aren't even an individual stat... you put too much stock into them.

 

I really think it's impossible to place too much stock into runs when it comes to baseball.

[Sammy Sofa]

Soriano is one of the worst hitters in post season history.

 

I'd love to see this list.

[Sammy Sofa]

The only thing I'm "hung up" on is the idea that Fuld should get regular playing time for any kind of indeifnite stretch.

 

I bet you said the same thing about Theriot too.

 

Theriot is the rare exception, not the rule. You don't play/manage in the hope or expectation of that rare exception.

 

Hoff and Fox are indeed guys who should be considered for such play and room made for them before Sam Fuld even enters the discussion.

 

Yeah they have higher upside but if Fuld can sustain he brings a suitable style of play to the leadoff spot.

 

What makes Fuld sustaining any kind of serviceable offense realistic?

 

 

Fukudome has shown sustained stretches where is an excellent player. He also has the history of being an excellent player over in Japan. Granted, that's the Japanese league, but he's shown he's been able to translate that success over here. His dropoff is frustrating, but at least this year he is showing he is still of value if he is able to stick to his awing adjustments. That's likely something it's going to take all year for him to get used to, but he's still showing he can do it.

 

 

This isn't Kiddie Corner Training Skool. He needs to play well for the majority of the year considering his contract. Your apologizing for this outfield is becoming legend.

 

Who is "apologizing?" I want the Cubs to maximize what they have. They need to work with they've been dealt with instead of throwing in the towel and playing never-will-be's like Sam Fuld. Fukudome has been incredibly frustrating, but he has also shown he can succeed at the MLB level. It should just be common sense to work towards making that happen again because a non-slumping Fukudome kicks the crap out of anything someone like Sam Fuld is likely to provide in fulltime play. You want to take this ridiculous, hardline, all or nothing approach towards this team that if actually applied would actually just make them even worse than they have been.

 

 

Keep him in a platoon with Johnson and CF is fine.

 

....a $14 million player who is used in a platoon. That tells you quite a bit.

 

So because someone is making a certain amount of money you give up on them completely and indefinitely go with the mediocre minor leaguer? If the Cubs can find a way to trade Fukudome with minimial financial obligations, great, go for it. If they could then upgrade CF, fanatastic. But right now, as things seemingly stand with the sale of the team and the financial situation, this is what the Cubs have. A Fukudome/Johnson platoon isn't ideal, but it's a FAR better option than playing Sam Fuld instead as much as possible.

 

 

As for Bradley, again, the answer seems simple with his drastic splits: bat him RH and drop him in the order for the time being. He has shown he can produce at all-star levels over his career so I'm all for trying something different that ideally takes the pressure off and he starts hitting. The point with both Bradley and Fukudome is that they have recent track records of success that you want to try and still capitalize on.

 

Bradley has a recent track record of success at the DH spot which keeps his legs fresh. Fuku has no real track record of success in MLB.

 

Bradley's hitting issues really don't seem to be stemming from "unfresh legs" much, if at all. Fukudome does have a track record of sustained periods of success thus far in the MLB. No, it's not for the majority of his playing time, but it's there, especially this year in that he was able to initially adjust his approach at the plate and do it again for brief stretches. Again, it's not ideal that he's still not able to do that all the time, but it can't be ignored because when he's able to stick with those adjustments he's an excellent hitter.

 

 

Personally, I'd prefer him to be where he's shown he has the most success once he's able to hit again.

 

We've seen that experiment against real pitching. I believe it's in the "0-6" file.

 

Soriano has had much succees against "real pitching" over his career. He hasn't only feasted on bad pitchers.

[Cubbie Swagger]

why are you ignoring the ability to get extra bases without stealing? ughh, there's so much wrong here I don't even want to bother, honestly.

How does he do that? By hitting singles off the wall, and turning doubles into singles because he doesn't run hard?

 

I know that you can create runs by being a good base runner, but I don't think Fonzie is the greatest base runner around...

 

I really think it's impossible to place too much stock into runs when it comes to baseball.

Team runs are extremely important. Individual runs, though, do not show anything about a player's skill that his other stats don't tell us. It's a fairly pointless stat as far as grading a player, IMHO.

[inari]

why are you ignoring the ability to get extra bases without stealing? ughh, there's so much wrong here I don't even want to bother, honestly.

How does he do that? By hitting singles off the wall, and turning doubles into singles because he doesn't run hard?

 

I know that you can create runs by being a good base runner, but I don't think Fonzie is the greatest base runner around...

 

I really think it's impossible to place too much stock into runs when it comes to baseball.

Team runs are extremely important. Individual runs, though, do not show anything about a player's skill that his other stats don't tell us. It's a fairly pointless stat as far as grading a player, IMHO.

 

Who cares if he's a good base runner when he's hitting doubles off the wall constantly? That was his point.

 

And again, you're oversimplifying that they mean by runs.

[jersey cubs fan]

why are you ignoring the ability to get extra bases without stealing? ughh, there's so much wrong here I don't even want to bother, honestly.

How does he do that? By hitting singles off the wall, and turning doubles into singles because he doesn't run hard?

 

I know that you can create runs by being a good base runner, but I don't think Fonzie is the greatest base runner around...

 

I really think it's impossible to place too much stock into runs when it comes to baseball.

Team runs are extremely important. Individual runs, though, do not show anything about a player's skill that his other stats don't tell us. It's a fairly pointless stat as far as grading a player, IMHO.

 

Who cares if he's a good base runner when he's hitting doubles off the wall constantly? That was his point.

 

And again, you're oversimplifying that they mean by runs.

 

Isn't saying he constantly bangs doubles off the wall oversimplifying things? Or lying.

[Cubbie Swagger]

why are you ignoring the ability to get extra bases without stealing? ughh, there's so much wrong here I don't even want to bother, honestly.

How does he do that? By hitting singles off the wall, and turning doubles into singles because he doesn't run hard?

 

I know that you can create runs by being a good base runner, but I don't think Fonzie is the greatest base runner around...

 

I really think it's impossible to place too much stock into runs when it comes to baseball.

Team runs are extremely important. Individual runs, though, do not show anything about a player's skill that his other stats don't tell us. It's a fairly pointless stat as far as grading a player, IMHO.

 

Who cares if he's a good base runner when he's hitting doubles off the wall constantly? That was his point.

 

And again, you're oversimplifying that they mean by runs.

 

Isn't saying he constantly bangs doubles off the wall oversimplifying things? Or lying.

:-))

[Gingerballs Lives]

It probably deserves its own thread but I really like having Kosuke in the leadoff spot. It really seems to maximize his offensive abilities.

 

I know I've been dogging him but when his approach is right, he's pretty good.