Grammar question

[laurens]

So I got into an argument with my English teacher today, and to see who's right I thought I'd ask here.

 

We were making an exercise on modal verbs, and had to rewrite sentences using modal verbs so that the meaning would go unchanged.

 

 

The sentence was: "He took his umbrella but it didn't rain after all" and we had to use the modal verb "need". Which sentence is right? I'm not going to say who said which sentence.

 

 

In case both sentences are right, choose which one is more commonly used.

[jersey cubs fan]

needn't?

[Derwood]

The first option is one correct way of phrasing it

[javy knows my name]

The first way is correct but very...anitquated.

My guess is that the second way is not correct, but would be more likely to be used in the US.

[Tracer Bullet]

You'd only use the 2nd sentence if you were trying to stretch a 9-page paper into a 10-page paper for some HS or college course and it was so late the night before the paper was due that you didn't care anymore.

 

Is there something wrong with: "he didn't need his umbrella."

[Andy]

The first way is right, the second one isn't but is more likely to be used in the US, and the best way to say it is "He didn't need his umbrella".

[laurens]

The first one is how my teacher said it, the second one is how one of my fellow students thought it was. I suggested "He didn't need his umbrella", but my teacher insisted she was right and I was wrong. I then said I'd ask some Americans I know (you guys) and she laughed it away saying "You really think they'll agree with you?"

 

My teacher is not really that good at English.

[dew1679666265]

The first one is how my teacher said it, the second one is how one of my fellow students thought it was. I suggested "He didn't need his umbrella", but my teacher insisted she was right and I was wrong. I then said I'd ask some Americans I know (you guys) and she laughed it away saying "You really think they'll agree with you?"

 

My teacher is not really that good at English.

 

By the technical English form, her way is right. Problem is, like others have said here, it's highly antiquated and hardly ever used anymore.

[Tracer Bullet]

Are all languages as messed up as English? Everyone's basically said the same thing: the first one is correct, but no one uses it b/c it sounds so stupid. How can a usage be "correct" if no one uses it?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

"it wasn't raining"

[dew1679666265]

Are all languages as messed up as English? Everyone's basically said the same thing: the first one is correct, but no one uses it b/c it sounds so stupid. How can a usage be "correct" if no one uses it?

 

My understanding is that most languages have the "proper" way to say things, but that generally is not the simplest way to say it. So, they find easier ways to say things even if they're not truly "proper" by the book.

[CubbieBum]

Are all languages as messed up as English? Everyone's basically said the same thing: the first one is correct, but no one uses it b/c it sounds so stupid. How can a usage be "correct" if no one uses it?

 

My understanding is that most languages have the "proper" way to say things, but that generally is not the simplest way to say it. So, they find easier ways to say things even if they're not truly "proper" by the book.

 

My brother lived in Argentina for 8 months after high school and they called Mexican spanish what would translate to sissy spanish because everything was slang. I guess Argentina and Spain speak Spanish by the book and Central America uses a lot of slang. It's like the difference between the U.S. and England is what my brother compared it to.

[jersey cubs fan]

Are all languages as messed up as English? Everyone's basically said the same thing: the first one is correct, but no one uses it b/c it sounds so stupid. How can a usage be "correct" if no one uses it?

 

My understanding is that most languages have the "proper" way to say things, but that generally is not the simplest way to say it. So, they find easier ways to say things even if they're not truly "proper" by the book.

 

My brother lived in Argentina for 8 months after high school and they called Mexican spanish what would translate to sissy spanish because everything was slang. I guess Argentina and Spain speak Spanish by the book and Central America uses a lot of slang. It's like the difference between the U.S. and England is what my brother compared it to.

 

Except the English don't really know how to speak their own language.

[Derwood]

My wife's mom is Cuban and her dad is Colombian, so she really hates the sound of "real" Spanish.

[javy knows my name]

Are all languages as messed up as English? Everyone's basically said the same thing: the first one is correct, but no one uses it b/c it sounds so stupid. How can a usage be "correct" if no one uses it?

 

My understanding is that most languages have the "proper" way to say things, but that generally is not the simplest way to say it. So, they find easier ways to say things even if they're not truly "proper" by the book.

 

My brother lived in Argentina for 8 months after high school and they called Mexican spanish what would translate to sissy spanish because everything was slang. I guess Argentina and Spain speak Spanish by the book and Central America uses a lot of slang. It's like the difference between the U.S. and England is what my brother compared it to.

 

Except the English don't really know how to speak their own language.

 

This is really, really stupid. Language is defined by convention. While we have different interpretations, there is no such thing as "correct" usage. If a large enough group of people use certain words or symbols to communicate with each other, it's language.

 

That's why L'academie Francaise and their set guidelines for "correct" usage of the French language is also ridiculous. Many, many words and phrases are coming in from English and being used in daily French conversation, and there is actually a committee made up of old, decorated French writers whose job it is to preserve the sanctity of the language and actually need to vote to "allow" the use of such words/phrases. Also, the French long ago fell in love with tenses such as the past conditional form and while this sentence sounds totally wonky in English, it would translate pretty much word-for-word in French. Feel free to correct me si je me trompe, les Belgiques.

[javy knows my name]

The first way is right, the second one isn't but is more likely to be used in the US, and the best way to say it is "He didn't need his umbrella".

 

Dude...I already posted this, in this thread

[CubbieBum]

The first way is right, the second one isn't but is more likely to be used in the US, and the best way to say it is "He didn't need his umbrella".

 

Dude...I already posted this, in this thread

 

http://thehealthblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/cookie.jpg

[dew1679666265]

The first way is right, the second one isn't but is more likely to be used in the US, and the best way to say it is "He didn't need his umbrella".

 

Dude...I already posted this, in this thread

 

http://thehealthblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/cookie.jpg

 

That looks really good.

[TruffleShuffle]

there is no correct time to use the phrase "needn't"

[hardcorecubfan]

My wife's mom is Cuban and her dad is Colombian, so she really hates the sound of "real" Spanish.

 

 

what?? My spanish teacher was Cuban and according to him the only people other than Spaniards that could speak true Spanish were the Cubans.

[ConstableRabbit]

He didn't need to take his umbrella.

[Marco4]

there is no correct time to use the phrase "needn't"

 

You needn't be so harsh in your judgements. I can well imagine myself using it on many occasions; aye, it'd be pronounced 'neen'', but it'd be there.

 

Its - I guess - dying out like 'oughtn't' and 'shan't' and it saddens me. However, language is alive, and you've got to allow it to develop or it will become French.

 

Having said that, I can imagine both sentences be used at different times. There's a subtle difference in meaning between the two.

[TruffleShuffle]

there is no correct time to use the phrase "needn't"

 

You needn't be so harsh in your judgements. I can well imagine myself using it on many occasions; aye, it'd be pronounced 'neen'', but it'd be there.

 

Its - I guess - dying out like 'oughtn't' and 'shan't' and it saddens me. However, language is alive, and you've got to allow it to develop or it will become French.

 

Having said that, I can imagine both sentences be used at different times. There's a subtle difference in meaning between the two.

 

i should have qualified my post with "unless you are british or are in great britain"

[Little Slide Rooter]

Its not gonn' rain.

[biittner77]

I say shan't all the time but I do so only to confuse and confound my students.