The Marlins future

[CubbieBum]

Weather doesn't keep fans away and that has been proven over and over again in all sports.

 

You're right. All the people I know in Miami who avoid games because of the weather must by lying. Glad that you could prove that.

 

keyword is fans

 

As I said before, I'm not going to cross the street to watch the Cubs play if I know I'm going to be drenched in sweat by the third inning. If there were only a handful of games, then I would probably just suck it up because I'd know my opportunities to see my team live in person would be few, but if it were just 1 out of 81 games, then I'd probably just sit at home in my recliner, watch it on TV, and drink a beer that didn't cost me seven dollars.

 

I don't know when you go to Cubs games but baseball is played in the summer and you're normally sweating before you get there. The difference is the Cubs and most teams have tens of thousands of fans who are willing to sweat the whole game in 90+ degree weather. The Marlins have maybe a hundred. The people in Miami are not willing to sit in extreme heat to watch a baseball game. A city with people who are willing should have that team.

[OleMissCub]

The Cubs generally play home games during the day. They are unique in that respect. They are also unique in that they have one of the largest fan bases of any team in any sport in the United States. Comparing them to the Marlins or any other team with a mediocre fan base and a lackluster stadium seems futile in that respect.

 

Maybe it's because you are from Indiana and you perhaps can't fully appreciate what it feels like to have sweat run down the crack of your ass at nine in the evening, but the weather absolutely matters for teams with average fan bases.

[17 Seconds]

Weather doesn't keep fans away and that has been proven over and over again in all sports.

 

You're right. All the people I know in Miami who avoid games because of the weather must by lying. Glad that you could prove that.

 

keyword is fans

 

and we've established that the marlins don't have fans and probably never will. a lot of ticket sales come from non-fans, and non-fans aren't going to want to take in a game if it's miserable outside.

 

is the weather keeping the marlins from packing the stadium every night? of course not, but don't say that weather doesn't affect ticket sales.

[Garage Party]

Having sweat run down one's ass hasn't stopped Cubs fans from filling Dolphin Stadium (relatively speaking) when the Cubs come to Miami. Maybe we as a fanbase just like ass sweat.

[Soul]

The Cubs generally play home games during the day. They are unique in that respect. They are also unique in that they have one of the largest fan bases of any team in any sport in the United States. Comparing them to the Marlins or any other team with a mediocre fan base and a lackluster stadium seems futile in that respect.

 

Maybe it's because you are from Indiana and you perhaps can't fully appreciate what it feels like to have sweat run down the crack of your ass at nine in the evening, but the weather absolutely matters for teams with average fan bases.

 

I'm sure it's a factor. I'm also sure it's not the only one.

 

Here's the only thing I do know: they've had enough time to get that thing right. If they build another turkey of a stadium and it winds up empty, I'll bet the Marlins' days in Miami are numbered.

[Sammy Sofa]

and we've established that the marlins don't have fans and probably never will.

 

We have?

[OleMissCub]

Having sweat run down one's ass hasn't stopped Cubs fans from filling Dolphin Stadium (relatively speaking) when the Cubs come to Miami. Maybe we as a fanbase just like ass sweat.

 

Again, we have a ginormous fan base, most of which are never able to see the Cubs in person unless they come near where they live. Thus, it is a special occurrence for most people to see the Cubs play. People are more willing to put themselves through some discomfort when something is extraordinary to them. To those people in the Miami area who would make up their casual fanbase, Marlins games are routine. It's much easier for someone to be willing to sacrifice for a unique activity as opposed to something that is routine. This shouldn't be a difficult concept to understand.

[Guest]

Weather doesn't keep fans away and that has been proven over and over again in all sports.

 

Perhaps you are right concerning somewhat rare events, like a football game or some playoff game, but when there is a consistent weather pattern that is extremely unpleasant, that will certainly keep people away. No one wants to pay that much money to go sit somewhere and sweat. The Cubs could play across the street and I likely wouldn't make my plans around going to a game if I knew that it was either going to rain or it was going to be so muggy that I'll be drenched in sweat at eight at night. And I certainly wouldn't buy season tickets if I knew that those were the options that were most likely going to present themselves on any given night.

What do you know about Miami?

 

I've been to two dozen games at Pro-Player. It's hot, but not any hotter than any other place in the summer. It's not like it gets to be 100 degrees in Miami. Their temp are pretty consistent for most of the year.

 

The Marlins have no fan base. Whatever fan base they had was killed first by the rental mogul and then by Loria. The fans don't trust the Marlins.

[OleMissCub]

Well since you are the expert, you don't think if they had an indoor air-conditioned facility like Houston that they would have higher attendance?

[Guest]

Well since you are the expert, you don't think if they had an indoor air-conditioned facility like Houston that they would have higher attendance?

It might help marginally but people don't go to Marlin games for various reasons. I'll list them in the order in which I think they are important

 

1) Fan of another team

1 tie) Jeff Loria, they hate him

3) Cost to see players who won't be on the team next year (or when they are good)

4) Futbol or football fan (i.e., not a baseball fan)

5) Baseball field

 

Late in the 2000 season I can remember listening to a Marlins game on my way home from work and in the background I could here the fans chanting "Less go Jankees, less go Jankees". I can't remember who the Marlins weren't playing but it wasn't the Yankees.

 

The indoor stadium hasn't helped the Rays one bit.

[OleMissCub]

Maybe you are right. All I know is that I'd prefer the Florida Marlins not exist. I'll forever hate them and the Chicago Bears.

[Guest]

What do you know about Miami?

 

I've been to two dozen games at Pro-Player. It's hot, but not any hotter than any other place in the summer. It's not like it gets to be 100 degrees in Miami. Their temp are pretty consistent for most of the year.

 

The Marlins have no fan base. Whatever fan base they had was killed first by the rental mogul and then by Loria. The fans don't trust the Marlins.

 

It's not the heat that eats people alive. It's the humidity levels. 80 degrees and 100% humidity in Miami is way, way, way worse than 100 degrees in SoCal with hardly any humidity.

[jersey cubs fan]

The indoor stadium hasn't helped the Rays one bit.

 

A big part of that problem is it's located in St. Pete and ugly as sin. But with a good team, they were drawing fans toward the end of the year.

 

The stadium is a big part of the problem with the Marlins. It's located off the side of a highway near absolutely nothing. It's a football stadium. It works for once a week (or more accurately, 8 Sundays a year) tailgating. But it doesn't work for an everyday sport like baseball. The Giants and Jets have no problem drawing fans to their isolated stadium venue every Sunday, but the Devils and Nets struggle a lot more to get people there on a regular basis.

 

Additionally, the stadium is oppresively hot. I've been to a couple Dolphins games in September, and the crowd is absolutely drained from the insane heat/humidity/sun. It is not at all the same as other locations in the country.

 

Miami might work as a baseball market without a dome, but they'd need a stadium that provides a ton of shade in the stands, Pro Player seats are all exposed, and in another location. But it takes time to build a fan base for an expansion team, and if you make attending a game a real pain the ass, it'll take all that much longer.

[OleMissCub]

Miami might work as a baseball market without a dome

 

I really think they need an indoor place to thrive. Not just because of the heat, but the threat of rain is ever present as well.

[Soul]

But it takes time to build a fan base for an expansion team, and if you make attending a game a real pain the ass, it'll take all that much longer.

 

True. Doesn't help when you pull the chain every time your team wins something too. Kind of kills the excitement for next year, which is when you can traditionally expect to rake.

[CubbieBum]

Weather doesn't keep fans away and that has been proven over and over again in all sports.

 

You're right. All the people I know in Miami who avoid games because of the weather must by lying. Glad that you could prove that.

 

keyword is fans

 

and we've established that the marlins don't have fans and probably never will. a lot of ticket sales come from non-fans, and non-fans aren't going to want to take in a game if it's miserable outside.

 

is the weather keeping the marlins from packing the stadium every night? of course not, but don't say that weather doesn't affect ticket sales.

 

Exactly why they shouldn't have a team. Miami just won't support a team and thus shouldn't have one. Spending millions to give a fan base that doesn't support the team because of the weather should never happen. Prove even for just one month you will come out and actually get 20 thousand fans and then maybe you can get a nice new indoor stadium. If you don't show the fan support you can't justify a new stadium.

 

To me Miami shouldn't have the team and the MLB should be trying to figure out how it will work there. If the fans of a team won't come out because they will sweat too much then they don't deserve to have a team.

[CubbieBum]

The Cubs generally play home games during the day. They are unique in that respect. They are also unique in that they have one of the largest fan bases of any team in any sport in the United States. Comparing them to the Marlins or any other team with a mediocre fan base and a lackluster stadium seems futile in that respect.

 

Maybe it's because you are from Indiana and you perhaps can't fully appreciate what it feels like to have sweat run down the crack of your ass at nine in the evening, but the weather absolutely matters for teams with average fan bases.

 

I was using the Cubs as an example because this is a Cubs message board. There are only a couple teams that have major attendance issues and Florida is the only one that actually has won World Series and still can't get the fans. If a team in the desert like Arizona or teams in Atlanta (similar weather to Florida) can get the fans then the big reason why Florida can't becomes the fans. They just don't have the fans that want to go to the game no matter the conditions.

[UMFan83]

Maybe you are right. All I know is that I'd prefer the Florida Marlins not exist. I'll forever hate them and the Chicago Bears.

 

Boo, the Bears saved you from the embarrassment of a Super Bowl loss. You should be thanking us.

[jersey cubs fan]

The Cubs generally play home games during the day. They are unique in that respect. They are also unique in that they have one of the largest fan bases of any team in any sport in the United States. Comparing them to the Marlins or any other team with a mediocre fan base and a lackluster stadium seems futile in that respect.

 

Maybe it's because you are from Indiana and you perhaps can't fully appreciate what it feels like to have sweat run down the crack of your ass at nine in the evening, but the weather absolutely matters for teams with average fan bases.

 

I was using the Cubs as an example because this is a Cubs message board. There are only a couple teams that have major attendance issues and Florida is the only one that actually has won World Series and still can't get the fans. If a team in the desert like Arizona or teams in Atlanta (similar weather to Florida) can get the fans then the big reason why Florida can't becomes the fans. They just don't have the fans that want to go to the game no matter the conditions.

 

How can you say "no matter the conditions"? There isn't another team, let alone expansion team, that has an absolute dump of a stadium located off the side of a random highway where it's 90 and humid with rain darn near every day. Had the team sustained some level of success, rather than gutting the team after winning, they would probably be much better off. If the Blackhawks fall on their face in the playoffs and gut the team, attendance will go right back into the toilet. And that is a longstanding sports franchise with a rather large established fan base. You can't built a fan base by making the gameday experience complete crap and fielding the lowest payroll team in the league on a regular basis. They did draw 3 million in their first season, and 2.3 million in their 1997 season. They gained 500,000 the year after their last WS title, but they quickly went back to being a below .500 team with lessening attendance.

 

Arizona has no less of a problem of no "real fans", yet they built a very nice ballpark and made the experience much more enjoyable, and built a team that could enjoy a sustainable level of success over time (4 postseason appearances in 11 seasons compared to 2 in 16). They had a pullback in attendance during the lean year, but it was not nearly as dramatic.

 

Baseball is an everyday sport. You have to give fans a reason to show up everyday (comparing it to football is nonsensical), and that entails a quality location as well as decent stadium. They have a horrible location and horrible stadium in the most unpleasant climate in the country during the summer.

[Guest]

Baseball is an everyday sport. You have to give fans a reason to show up everyday (comparing it to football is nonsensical), and that entails a quality location as well as decent stadium. They have a horrible location and horrible stadium in the most unpleasant climate in the country during the summer.

Pro-Player is a quality location as anyone who's lived in South Florida will tell you. Miami isn't a "Center city" with good public transportation. It is spread out pretty good north to south. If one factors in Broward county Pro-Player is centrally located. Do they need to develop the area around the park more? Yes. The place they play is not that bad to watch a game. It's no worse than Yankee Stadium. The reason why they want to move is because Loria gets only the gate receipts and has to pay rent. The rest of what you said was accurate.

 

The funny thing is that where they are proposing to move is worse than the location that they currently occupy. It's hard to get to, congested, and crime infested. I suspect the reason they want to move there is due to organized crime's involvement in city govt. more so than it just happens to be where the old Orange Bowl was.

[jersey cubs fan]

Baseball is an everyday sport. You have to give fans a reason to show up everyday (comparing it to football is nonsensical), and that entails a quality location as well as decent stadium. They have a horrible location and horrible stadium in the most unpleasant climate in the country during the summer.

Pro-Player is a quality location as anyone who's lived in South Florida will tell you. Miami isn't a "Center city" with good public transportation. It is spread out pretty good north to south. If one factors in Broward county Pro-Player is centrally located. Do they need to develop the area around the park more? Yes. The place they play is not that bad to watch a game. It's no worse than Yankee Stadium. The reason why they want to move is because Loria gets only the gate receipts and has to pay rent. The rest of what you said was accurate.

 

The funny thing is that where they are proposing to move is worse than the location that they currently occupy. It's hard to get to, congested, and crime infested. I suspect the reason they want to move there is due to organized crime's involvement in city govt. more so than it just happens to be where the old Orange Bowl was.

 

 

Nobody I know who lives in south florida will say that. It's desolate. And watching a game there is terrible. It's a football stadium, and a bad one at that. I did not like Yankee Stadium, but it was considerably better. However, if you put that same stadium in say, the Meadowlands, and had an expansion team play there, nobody would go. It's a bad stadium in a horrible location, just like Dolphins Stadium.

[Sammy Sofa]

Yeah, this is honestly the first time I've heard someone say that the Marlins' current stadium is in a good location. Having been there myself, I'm sort of terrified to see what CubinNY thinks is a bad location.

[Guest]

Baseball is an everyday sport. You have to give fans a reason to show up everyday (comparing it to football is nonsensical), and that entails a quality location as well as decent stadium. They have a horrible location and horrible stadium in the most unpleasant climate in the country during the summer.

Pro-Player is a quality location as anyone who's lived in South Florida will tell you. Miami isn't a "Center city" with good public transportation. It is spread out pretty good north to south. If one factors in Broward county Pro-Player is centrally located. Do they need to develop the area around the park more? Yes. The place they play is not that bad to watch a game. It's no worse than Yankee Stadium. The reason why they want to move is because Loria gets only the gate receipts and has to pay rent. The rest of what you said was accurate.

 

The funny thing is that where they are proposing to move is worse than the location that they currently occupy. It's hard to get to, congested, and crime infested. I suspect the reason they want to move there is due to organized crime's involvement in city govt. more so than it just happens to be where the old Orange Bowl was.

 

 

Nobody I know who lives in south florida will say that. It's desolate. And watching a game there is terrible. It's a football stadium, and a bad one at that. I did not like Yankee Stadium, but it was considerably better. However, if you put that same stadium in say, the Meadowlands, and had an expansion team play there, nobody would go. It's a bad stadium in a horrible location, just like Dolphins Stadium.

Desolate? What does that have to do with anything? You were talking about the location. It takes 20 min. to get to Dolphin Stadium from downtown MIami and 30 min from Downtown Ft. Lauderdale. Aside from the new park in Philly it's the easiest place to get to that I've ever been and it is far easier to get to than the one they are proposing. There is ample parking for everyone. What they don't have is places to go before and after the game. If they built up the area around Dolphin would it make it a better venue?

 

it's not a bad place to watch a game. It's just not. Again, the reason they want to move is because Loria can't get any money out of the place.

[Guest]

Yeah, this is honestly the first time I've heard someone say that the Marlins' current stadium is in a good location. Having been there myself, I'm sort of terrified to see what CubinNY thinks is a bad location.

 

The one time you went to the game there it was terrible. Imagine that forming an opinion on limited information.

[Sammy Sofa]

Yeah, this is honestly the first time I've heard someone say that the Marlins' current stadium is in a good location. Having been there myself, I'm sort of terrified to see what CubinNY thinks is a bad location.

 

The one time you went to the game there it was terrible. Imagine that forming an opinion on limited information.

 

Actually, I've been to 7 games there, but thanks. Imagine forming an opinion about my opinion based on such limited information.