i feel bad for juan cruz

[jersey cubs fan]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9227990/MLB-may-amend-Type-A-free-agent-rules?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49

 

Major League Baseball, the players' union, the Diamondbacks and Cruz's agents are in discussions to facilitate a sign-and-trade involving Cruz that adheres to the collective-bargaining agreement. Free agents cannot be traded before June 15 without their consent, but the union will permit Cruz and other Type A players to waive that right, according to Rob Manfred, baseball's executive vice-president of labor relations.

 

Rosenthal says the D'Backs are not discussing this kind of scenario with Hudson's agents, and it's unknown whether Cabrera and the White Sox are talking about it. Rosenthal says there would be a window, perhaps 48 hours, for the team to make a deal. If no deal is made then the player would remain a free agent

.

 

:-k

It's mighty big of the players union to allow the CBA to be breached when it benefits their own, isn't it?

I love the blurb about how the union would permit Cruz and others to waive their individual rights. I don't think the union has a say in that decision.

 

Wasn't it the union not allowing ARod to waive his rights that prevented him from being traded to Boston and instead to NYC?

I believe it was that he was willing to take a salary cut to fit in the Red Sox's payroll and the union objected.

 

That would be correct. ARod was will to cut something like $30 million off his deal to make the trade happen, but the union wasn't having it.

 

The union confuses me sometimes. Why won't the union allow something like that? Does the union get a portion of that money or something? If it's his money what do they care what he does with it?

 

Precedent.

And the fact that what A-Rod gets affects the everyone else. He's at the top of the food chain, what he does affects everyone below him.

 

All unions are set up to benefit the collective that makes up the union. Sometimes that means that the needs of the guys at the top have to be subordinate to everyone else. In the end, it benefits everyone.

 

in theory

[Jehrico]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9227990/MLB-may-amend-Type-A-free-agent-rules?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49

 

Major League Baseball, the players' union, the Diamondbacks and Cruz's agents are in discussions to facilitate a sign-and-trade involving Cruz that adheres to the collective-bargaining agreement. Free agents cannot be traded before June 15 without their consent, but the union will permit Cruz and other Type A players to waive that right, according to Rob Manfred, baseball's executive vice-president of labor relations.

 

Rosenthal says the D'Backs are not discussing this kind of scenario with Hudson's agents, and it's unknown whether Cabrera and the White Sox are talking about it. Rosenthal says there would be a window, perhaps 48 hours, for the team to make a deal. If no deal is made then the player would remain a free agent

.

 

:-k

It's mighty big of the players union to allow the CBA to be breached when it benefits their own, isn't it?

I love the blurb about how the union would permit Cruz and others to waive their individual rights. I don't think the union has a say in that decision.

 

Wasn't it the union not allowing ARod to waive his rights that prevented him from being traded to Boston and instead to NYC?

I believe it was that he was willing to take a salary cut to fit in the Red Sox's payroll and the union objected.

 

That would be correct. ARod was will to cut something like $30 million off his deal to make the trade happen, but the union wasn't having it.

 

The union confuses me sometimes. Why won't the union allow something like that? Does the union get a portion of that money or something? If it's his money what do they care what he does with it?

 

Precedent.

And the fact that what A-Rod gets affects the everyone else. He's at the top of the food chain, what he does affects everyone below him.

 

All unions are set up to benefit the collective that makes up the union. Sometimes that means that the needs of the guys at the top have to be subordinate to everyone else. In the end, it benefits everyone.

The key though is the union objected. They don't have final say on what any individual player does, but they can object. If ARod felt the union was preventing him from being happy, he's free to agree to terminate his contract anytime he wants (assuming the team wants to terminate it as well). If a player undermines the union anyways by going against the collective bargaining agreement or otherwise, then that player will get crap from the union and the other players. ARod isn't a guy who is going to go against the grain. He wants everyone to like him. He wasn't going to go against the union's wishes.

[Guest]

And the fact that what A-Rod gets affects the everyone else. He's at the top of the food chain, what he does affects everyone below him.

 

All unions are set up to benefit the collective that makes up the union. Sometimes that means that the needs of the guys at the top have to be subordinate to everyone else. In the end, it benefits everyone.

Except the guy at the top.

[CubinNY]

And the fact that what A-Rod gets affects the everyone else. He's at the top of the food chain, what he does affects everyone below him.

 

All unions are set up to benefit the collective that makes up the union. Sometimes that means that the needs of the guys at the top have to be subordinate to everyone else. In the end, it benefits everyone.

Except the guy at the top.

No, it benefits him too, at least financially.

[Guest]

And the fact that what A-Rod gets affects the everyone else. He's at the top of the food chain, what he does affects everyone below him.

 

All unions are set up to benefit the collective that makes up the union. Sometimes that means that the needs of the guys at the top have to be subordinate to everyone else. In the end, it benefits everyone.

Except the guy at the top.

No, it benefits him too, at least financially.

Wait...

 

The union overriding the player's own decisions is a benefit?

 

Wow, who knew big brother was so benevolent.

[treebird]

And the fact that what A-Rod gets affects the everyone else. He's at the top of the food chain, what he does affects everyone below him.

 

All unions are set up to benefit the collective that makes up the union. Sometimes that means that the needs of the guys at the top have to be subordinate to everyone else. In the end, it benefits everyone.

Except the guy at the top.

No, it benefits him too, at least financially.

Wait...

 

The union overriding the player's own decisions is a benefit?

 

Wow, who knew big brother was so benevolent.

 

you know it's not that simple though. as soon as you do this once, teams will be all over players who want to be traded, telling them there's no one interested at the salary and he needs to give some cash away. it's a completely unacceptable precedent to set, and the players' union was completely right to refuse a-rod's attempt to screw over teammates and competitors.

[Jehrico]

And the fact that what A-Rod gets affects the everyone else. He's at the top of the food chain, what he does affects everyone below him.

 

All unions are set up to benefit the collective that makes up the union. Sometimes that means that the needs of the guys at the top have to be subordinate to everyone else. In the end, it benefits everyone.

Except the guy at the top.

No, it benefits him too, at least financially.

Wait...

 

The union overriding the player's own decisions is a benefit?

 

Wow, who knew big brother was so benevolent.

 

you know it's not that simple though. as soon as you do this once, teams will be all over players who want to be traded, telling them there's no one interested at the salary and he needs to give some cash away. it's a completely unacceptable precedent to set, and the players' union was completely right to refuse a-rod's attempt to screw over teammates and competitors.

Correction...they were right to OBJECT. They never had the right of refusal.

[Guest]

And the fact that what A-Rod gets affects the everyone else. He's at the top of the food chain, what he does affects everyone below him.

 

All unions are set up to benefit the collective that makes up the union. Sometimes that means that the needs of the guys at the top have to be subordinate to everyone else. In the end, it benefits everyone.

Except the guy at the top.

No, it benefits him too, at least financially.

Wait...

 

The union overriding the player's own decisions is a benefit?

 

Wow, who knew big brother was so benevolent.

 

you know it's not that simple though. as soon as you do this once, teams will be all over players who want to be traded, telling them there's no one interested at the salary and he needs to give some cash away. it's a completely unacceptable precedent to set, and the players' union was completely right to refuse a-rod's attempt to screw over teammates and competitors.

Correction...they were right to OBJECT. They never had the right of refusal.

yeah, but maybe we could have gotten peavy this offseason. :)

[cubfan]

And the fact that what A-Rod gets affects the everyone else. He's at the top of the food chain, what he does affects everyone below him.

 

All unions are set up to benefit the collective that makes up the union. Sometimes that means that the needs of the guys at the top have to be subordinate to everyone else. In the end, it benefits everyone.

Except the guy at the top.

No, it benefits him too, at least financially.

Wait...

 

The union overriding the player's own decisions is a benefit?

 

Wow, who knew big brother was so benevolent.

 

you know it's not that simple though. as soon as you do this once, teams will be all over players who want to be traded, telling them there's no one interested at the salary and he needs to give some cash away. it's a completely unacceptable precedent to set, and the players' union was completely right to refuse a-rod's attempt to screw over teammates and competitors.

Correction...they were right to OBJECT. They never had the right of refusal.

 

I really don't know for sure, but the union would have the right to kick ARod out of the union if he did sign the deal. The union couldn't have stopped him but that is one heck of a road block if it is actually the case.

[Jehrico]

And the fact that what A-Rod gets affects the everyone else. He's at the top of the food chain, what he does affects everyone below him.

 

All unions are set up to benefit the collective that makes up the union. Sometimes that means that the needs of the guys at the top have to be subordinate to everyone else. In the end, it benefits everyone.

Except the guy at the top.

No, it benefits him too, at least financially.

Wait...

 

The union overriding the player's own decisions is a benefit?

 

Wow, who knew big brother was so benevolent.

 

you know it's not that simple though. as soon as you do this once, teams will be all over players who want to be traded, telling them there's no one interested at the salary and he needs to give some cash away. it's a completely unacceptable precedent to set, and the players' union was completely right to refuse a-rod's attempt to screw over teammates and competitors.

Correction...they were right to OBJECT. They never had the right of refusal.

 

I really don't know for sure, but the union would have the right to kick ARod out of the union if he did sign the deal. The union couldn't have stopped him but that is one heck of a road block if it is actually the case.

If you're already signed to a contract for a quarter of a BILLION dollars, do you really need a union to help protect your interests? This isn't like the United Auto Workers back in the swing days. He's already got all of the leverage that he needs. He's already signed to the richest contract throughout the rest of his prime years, and then some. Now he just has to figure out what he wants besides money to keep him happy. He's pretty much already benefited all he's going to benefit from the union. The problem with ARod though is he wants everyone to like him. If he did that and got kicked out of the union, he'd be the bane of all of the other players, and that would have been worse and made him less happy than if he stayed with the Rangers.

[Tracer Bullet]

So you don't think it would affect ARod if he got kicked out of the union? He may have lots of money, but he might have trouble getting into the clubhouse.

[jersey cubs fan]

So you don't think it would affect ARod if he got kicked out of the union? He may have lots of money, but he might have trouble getting into the clubhouse.

 

I don't think they'd station a couple of hooligans outside the door to turn him away. He'd be just fine, and probably have the same amount of friends in the game as he does now while in the union.

[BigbadB]

So you don't think it would affect ARod if he got kicked out of the union? He may have lots of money, but he might have trouble getting into the clubhouse.

 

I don't think they'd station a couple of hooligans outside the door to turn him away. He'd be just fine, and probably have the same amount of friends in the game as he does now while in the union.

 

I would think that this would open the door for more players to get themselves kicked out of the union. The union would need to find another way to make an example of A-Rod without actually kicking him out. Besides the fact, he's their biggest monetary draw.

[CubinNY]

I don't think Bonds was in the union and he had a freaking comfy chair in the locker room.

 

There's no big brother, there are lots of little brothers that he needs to look out for. It's pretty damn ridiculous to think that A-Rod reworking his contract and taking less money would benefit him in some way. The proposition is a lose-lose for him. He takes less money, is kicked out of the union, and is shunned by him fraternity.

 

Edit: IRCC, Kevin Millar wasn't in the union either, he was a scab during 1994 and they wouldn't let him in.

[Derwood]

I don't think Bonds was in the union and he had a freaking comfy chair in the locker room.

 

There's no big brother, there are lots of little brothers that he needs to look out for. It's pretty damn ridiculous to think that A-Rod reworking his contract and taking less money would benefit him in some way. The proposition is a lose-lose for him. He takes less money, is kicked out of the union, and is shunned by him fraternity.

 

Edit: IRCC, Kevin Millar wasn't in the union either, he was a scab during 1994 and they wouldn't let him in.

 

Damien Miller was also a scab

[NonProfitCow]

Looks like the Cardinals are interested.

 

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/commishs-hot-stove/commishs-hot-stove/cardinal-beat-updates/2009/02/carpenter-dishes-while-little-dunc-deals/

 

The Cardinals noted a recent MLB ruling that allows a so-called “sign-and-trade” that would allow a team to sidestep losing a first-round draft choice when acquiring a Type A free agent. The ruling is pertinent to the Cardinals because of their passing interest in reliever Juan Cruz, who finished last season with the Arizona Diamondbacks.

 

Under a Commissioner’s Office interpretation, the Cardinals, for example, could acquire Cruz by having the Diamondbacks technically re-sign their own free agent then flip him to St. Louis in a trade. The Cardinals would forfeit a prospect as compensation rather than their first-round draft pick. General manager John Mozeliak said he was still seeking further clarification. However, the ruling would allow a team to reach agreement with Cruz’s agent before having the D’Backs assume the terms. Any snag in the subsequent trade would nullify the deal.

 

Manager Tony La Russa previously suggested the hard-throwing Cruz might slide from career set-up man into a closer role.

[SouthSideRyan]

I don't think Bonds was in the union and he had a freaking comfy chair in the locker room.

 

There's no big brother, there are lots of little brothers that he needs to look out for. It's pretty damn ridiculous to think that A-Rod reworking his contract and taking less money would benefit him in some way. The proposition is a lose-lose for him. He takes less money, is kicked out of the union, and is shunned by him fraternity.

 

Edit: IRCC, Kevin Millar wasn't in the union either, he was a scab during 1994 and they wouldn't let him in.

 

Bonds just opted out of the licensing deal IIRC, he's still a member of the union.

[Sweet Swinging Billy]

Not sure if I saw that correctly because the screen on my upstairs TV is so small but MLB Network (and a Minneapolis newspaper) is saying that Juan Cruz and his agent are in negotiations with the Twins. I'll see if I can somehow verify this. I wish the Cubs had already signed him.

[Schwarber Fan]

Not sure if I saw that correctly because the screen on my upstairs TV is so small but MLB Network (and a Minneapolis newspaper) is saying that Juan Cruz and his agent are in negotiations with the Twins. I'll see if I can somehow verify this. I wish the Cubs had already signed him.

TUCSON, Ariz. -- The D-backs could be getting closer to signing right-handed reliever Juan Cruz as a precursor to a sign-and-trade transaction with the Minnesota Twins.

 

According to published reports, the Twins have already made a contract offer to the 30-year-old setup specialist -- the tender Arizona would have to honor in its contract with Cruz.

 

If the signing were to happen, the teams would have 48 hours to complete a trade before the agreement would be invalidated.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090221&content_id=3861010&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

[Guancous]

Can someone please explain to me why Juan Cruz can be involved in a sign-&-trade and Orlando Hudson couldn't?

[CubColtPacer]

Can someone please explain to me why Juan Cruz can be involved in a sign-&-trade and Orlando Hudson couldn't?

 

Hudson could have the last couple weeks as well as Cruz. But the Diamondbacks would have had to agree to an arrangement. They probably are only considering that route with Cruz because they're worried about nobody signing him before June. If they felt that Hudson would eventually find a deal, then they would naturally refuse to make special arrangements for him, and it turned out they were right.

[CubColtPacer]

Cruz finally found a team to bite...the Royals signed him to a 2 year, 5.5 million dollar deal with a 4 million option in 2011.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090228&content_id=3897376&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Smart move for Kansas City. Cruz and Soria is a nice back end of the pen, and their first rounder is protected.

[ChiCubsFan]

I already know the answer to this, but why didn't we just sign Cruz to that contract and lose the pick and not trade for Gregg?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Cruz is better than Gregg, but the first rounder will probably be a better prospect than Ceda. Plus we aren't locked into a long term commitment to a reliever with Gregg.