ESPN: Cedeno & Olson Traded for Heilman (P. 4)

[SouthSideRyan]

Woahhh wait a minute...Hendry is going to sing Bako to a 750k contract, correct me if Im wrong but isnt that what Blanco signed for? Blanco is a hell of a lot better than Paul freaking Bako.Gahhhhhh this offseason needs to end

 

Blanco bats with his right hand, stupid.

[treebird]

Woahhh wait a minute...Hendry is going to sing Bako to a 750k contract, correct me if Im wrong but isnt that what Blanco signed for? Blanco is a hell of a lot better than Paul freaking Bako.Gahhhhhh this offseason needs to end

 

Blanco bats with his right hand, stupid.

 

maybe that's why he sucks so much, i mean, how many guys only hold the bat with one hand?

 

 

 

 

(1.2)

[hankp101]

Is there any chance that if Hendry does sign Bako, it will be to a minor league deal? If he is dead set on having a LH backup catcher, I really hope he at least Koyie Hill compete for the job with Bako. I see no reason that Bako deserves a guaranteed spot or contract

[cubbinalltheway]

Levine says the Cubs will sign backup catcher Paul Bako to a one-year, $750K deal once they clear a spot on the 40-man roster. The 2-for-1 Heilman trade takes care of that.

So help me God if that was one of the reasons for this trade...

 

bako hit .217/.299/.328 last year, and it was his best offensive season since 2005. also, he'll turn 37 in june.

 

if you don't think koyie hill can replicate bako will do, you should clear the spot you need for bako by cutting hill.

i think it's fairly obvious that bako is being signed because he's a veteran, someone to be able to help geo mature as a baseball player, not because of his hitting ability, or lack thereof.

[cubsfan26]

Woahhh wait a minute...Hendry is going to sing Bako to a 750k contract, correct me if Im wrong but isnt that what Blanco signed for? Blanco is a hell of a lot better than Paul freaking Bako.Gahhhhhh this offseason needs to end

 

 

We have no clue Blanco would have signed for 750k to stay with the Cubs. Remember with the Cubs, Blanco only will get 120 AB's or so. With the Padres Blanco, could get 250 plus AB's next year, when playing with a poor hitting rookie in Hundley. I think it's very possible(from what I heard) that Blanco was willing to take less money to get more playing time. It's alot easier for Hendry to come out and say we wanted a LH back up catcher, instead of saying we didn't wann pay Blanco 1.5-1.7m to come back.

 

 

bako hit .217/.299/.328 last year, and it was his best offensive season since 2005. also, he'll turn 37 in june

.

 

Bako also had 299 AB's last year, and numbers were worse due to playing too much. Last year Blanco had 120 AB's, Bako numbers after 120 AB's were 258/341/755. Blanco will be 38 this year and hit 292/325/717 in 120 AB's. Blanco and Bako career numbers are also very simliar.

[erik316wttn]

Woahhh wait a minute...Hendry is going to sing Bako to a 750k contract, correct me if Im wrong but isnt that what Blanco signed for? Blanco is a hell of a lot better than Paul freaking Bako.Gahhhhhh this offseason needs to end

 

Nothing like being a player or two away from the World Series and then regressing with nearly every transaction (Bradley excluded). And people wonder why it's been over a century since the Cubs last won the World Series. I can't figure it out!

[bcl412]

Woahhh wait a minute...Hendry is going to sing Bako to a 750k contract, correct me if Im wrong but isnt that what Blanco signed for? Blanco is a hell of a lot better than Paul freaking Bako.Gahhhhhh this offseason needs to end

 

Nothing like being a player or two away from the World Series and then regressing with nearly every transaction (Bradley excluded). And people wonder why it's been over a century since the Cubs last won the World Series. I can't figure it out!

 

While we've regressed we're still one of the better teams in the NL.

[erik316wttn]

Woahhh wait a minute...Hendry is going to sing Bako to a 750k contract, correct me if Im wrong but isnt that what Blanco signed for? Blanco is a hell of a lot better than Paul freaking Bako.Gahhhhhh this offseason needs to end

 

Nothing like being a player or two away from the World Series and then regressing with nearly every transaction (Bradley excluded). And people wonder why it's been over a century since the Cubs last won the World Series. I can't figure it out!

 

While we've regressed we're still one of the better teams in the NL.

 

We shouldn't rest on that, though.

 

I don't think it's ok to say "Well, we've gotten worse, but we're still pretty good!" The goal is to improve your team every year, or at least not get worse. This team is noticably weaker in many ways since October.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Woahhh wait a minute...Hendry is going to sing Bako to a 750k contract, correct me if Im wrong but isnt that what Blanco signed for? Blanco is a hell of a lot better than Paul freaking Bako.Gahhhhhh this offseason needs to end

 

Blanco bats with his right hand, stupid.

 

maybe that's why he sucks so much, i mean, how many guys only hold the bat with one hand?

 

 

 

 

(1.2)

 

We already have Koyie Hill.

[Rusch33]

Woahhh wait a minute...Hendry is going to sing Bako to a 750k contract, correct me if Im wrong but isnt that what Blanco signed for? Blanco is a hell of a lot better than Paul freaking Bako.Gahhhhhh this offseason needs to end

 

Nothing like being a player or two away from the World Series and then regressing with nearly every transaction (Bradley excluded). And people wonder why it's been over a century since the Cubs last won the World Series. I can't figure it out!

 

How have they regressed? By getting rid of some of the dead weight on the team like Pie/Cedeno before they had no value/had to be cut?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Woahhh wait a minute...Hendry is going to sing Bako to a 750k contract, correct me if Im wrong but isnt that what Blanco signed for? Blanco is a hell of a lot better than Paul freaking Bako.Gahhhhhh this offseason needs to end

 

Nothing like being a player or two away from the World Series and then regressing with nearly every transaction (Bradley excluded). And people wonder why it's been over a century since the Cubs last won the World Series. I can't figure it out!

 

How have they regressed? By getting rid of some of the dead weight on the team like Pie/Cedeno before they had no value/had to be cut?

 

DeRosa and Wood say "hi."

[17 Seconds]

Woahhh wait a minute...Hendry is going to sing Bako to a 750k contract, correct me if Im wrong but isnt that what Blanco signed for? Blanco is a hell of a lot better than Paul freaking Bako.Gahhhhhh this offseason needs to end

 

Nothing like being a player or two away from the World Series and then regressing with nearly every transaction (Bradley excluded). And people wonder why it's been over a century since the Cubs last won the World Series. I can't figure it out!

 

How have they regressed? By getting rid of some of the dead weight on the team like Pie/Cedeno before they had no value/had to be cut?

 

Wood? DeRosa?

 

More than that though... we were going to regress even if we kept the same exact team. We got a lot of flukey type production last year that wasn't likely to happen again this season. Edmonds' ridiculous stretch... DeRosa's huge year, Fontenot OPSing over .900, Dempster having an ERA under 3, Theriot with a .387 OBP and hitting over .300 (although I guess that could possibly happen again). All that stuff was going to be lost anyways. Add in that we lost (Wood/DeRosa/Edmonds) more than we gained, I think they've clearly regressed.

 

That doesn't mean all that much though, considering they won 97 games last year. It would be really hard for them to not regress.

[haubrich91]

Stupid trade. Heilman better win the Cy Young now. ****.

 

Yeah because it's a sure thing that Cedeno will be the All Star SS and Olson will win 20 games while Pie will lead the AL in hitting.

 

That's not it at all, but nice try. I'm sick of these stupid trades that have been done all off-season. Why couldn't we just have done a 3 way deal with Baltimore and Seattle? I don't get it.

[Rusch33]

Woahhh wait a minute...Hendry is going to sing Bako to a 750k contract, correct me if Im wrong but isnt that what Blanco signed for? Blanco is a hell of a lot better than Paul freaking Bako.Gahhhhhh this offseason needs to end

 

Nothing like being a player or two away from the World Series and then regressing with nearly every transaction (Bradley excluded). And people wonder why it's been over a century since the Cubs last won the World Series. I can't figure it out!

 

How have they regressed? By getting rid of some of the dead weight on the team like Pie/Cedeno before they had no value/had to be cut?

 

DeRosa and Wood say "hi."

 

I'll make it easier:

 

DeRosa vs Bradley (Bradley's better offensive threat/DeRosa's hardly hurt = tie up)

Wood vs Gregg (Wood's probably just a little bit better/Gregg is younger and less injury prone than Wood is)

Howry vs Heilman (Heilman please)

Cedeno vs Aaron Miles (Aaron Miles, please)

Pie vs Gathright (Pretty much on the same exact level with each other - Pie will probably be the better player down the line)

 

I think this team is pretty much on par to what they were last year while saving some money.

Edited January 29, 2009 by Rusch33

[erik316wttn]

Woahhh wait a minute...Hendry is going to sing Bako to a 750k contract, correct me if Im wrong but isnt that what Blanco signed for? Blanco is a hell of a lot better than Paul freaking Bako.Gahhhhhh this offseason needs to end

 

Nothing like being a player or two away from the World Series and then regressing with nearly every transaction (Bradley excluded). And people wonder why it's been over a century since the Cubs last won the World Series. I can't figure it out!

 

How have they regressed? By getting rid of some of the dead weight on the team like Pie/Cedeno before they had no value/had to be cut?

 

DeRosa and Wood say "hi."

 

Not to mention trading one of our most valuable prospects (Ceda) for Wood's lackluster replacement. And trading probably our 2nd biggest prospect in Pie (yeah, not saying much) for a guy we flipped for Aaron Heilman. This is not a 97-win team. I doubt it's even a 90-win team.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Woahhh wait a minute...Hendry is going to sing Bako to a 750k contract, correct me if Im wrong but isnt that what Blanco signed for? Blanco is a hell of a lot better than Paul freaking Bako.Gahhhhhh this offseason needs to end

 

Nothing like being a player or two away from the World Series and then regressing with nearly every transaction (Bradley excluded). And people wonder why it's been over a century since the Cubs last won the World Series. I can't figure it out!

 

How have they regressed? By getting rid of some of the dead weight on the team like Pie/Cedeno before they had no value/had to be cut?

 

DeRosa and Wood say "hi."

 

Not to mention trading one of our most valuable prospects (Ceda) for Wood's lackluster replacement. And trading probably our 2nd biggest prospect in Pie (yeah, not saying much) for a guy we flipped for Aaron Heilman. This is not a 97-win team. I doubt it's even a 90-win team.

 

That's going a bit far. Where did we lose seven wins, especially when you account for Bradley? (keeping in mind that Fukudome/Edmonds is a wash in CF when you consider defense, where Edmonds gave away most of his bat)

[Tyrant]

Not to mention trading one of our most valuable prospects (Ceda) for Wood's lackluster replacement. And trading probably our 2nd biggest prospect in Pie (yeah, not saying much) for a guy we flipped for Aaron Heilman. This is not a 97-win team. I doubt it's even a 90-win team.

 

None of these things have any bearing on the Cubs' probable win total, since Pie and Ceda likely weren't going to contribute anything significant to the Cubs in 2009. Or ever, arguably.

[cubsfan26]

Nothing like being a player or two away from the World Series and then regressing at nearly every position on the club.

 

 

\:D/ I love the overreaction. Were doomed, we swapped a crappy back up catcher for a crappy back up catcher, and added a pitcher that will help us in 09, while trading away two players who probably won't. We added a 999 OPS hitter for RF who's hit very well on the road in his career, and replaced Wood with a guy who might allow 2-5 more runs then him next year. We let a 2b who had 900 plus OPS last year(799 career OPS in minors) play more. We traded away Jason Marquis? and we will probably add another starter and bench player. Look at it this way.

 

 

Added

Milton Bradley

More Fontenot/Miles

 

lost

Edmonds

DeRosa

Cedeno

 

* Bradley is a stud when he's not on the field and not playing half his home games in horrible hitters park. He's currently healthy, and have passed all the Cubs physical tests(changed his offseason work outs to hopefully keep him healthy as well). He's a upgrade over Edmonds, and more dependable to come through against good pitchers. DeRosa was unlikely to match his 08 numbers, so there was nothing wrong with going with a guy like Fontenot who has done nothing but hit. If for some reason Fontenot isn't as good as we hope, it's not impossible to find a 780 OPS type 2b pretty cheap during the season. Cedeno is a better defender then Miles, but Miles is a much better hitter, especially the last two years.

 

 

Added

Kevin Gregg

Aaron Heilman

Luis Vizcaino

 

Lost

Kerry Wood

Bob Howry

 

* Kevin Gregg isn't much worse then Wood result wise, and Heilman was pretty simliar to Wood from 05-07 as well. Vizcaino/Howry is pretty much a draw, but Vizcaino stuff is still good. So I think there's a chance he's much better then Howry was in 08. With Guzman healthy, and Gaudin possibly being in the pen for a full year. There's a good chance the bullpen is better next season.

 

 

Right now the only issue I have is rotation depth and outfield isn't quite as good with not being able to use DeRosa out there and Marquis in the rotation. But if we add another bench guy, and a starter better then Marquis(doesn't have to be Peavy). I will be happy with the offseason, and feel we have a better team in 2009. But thats just my opinion

[17 Seconds]

Woahhh wait a minute...Hendry is going to sing Bako to a 750k contract, correct me if Im wrong but isnt that what Blanco signed for? Blanco is a hell of a lot better than Paul freaking Bako.Gahhhhhh this offseason needs to end

 

Nothing like being a player or two away from the World Series and then regressing with nearly every transaction (Bradley excluded). And people wonder why it's been over a century since the Cubs last won the World Series. I can't figure it out!

 

How have they regressed? By getting rid of some of the dead weight on the team like Pie/Cedeno before they had no value/had to be cut?

 

DeRosa and Wood say "hi."

 

I'll make it easier:

 

DeRosa vs Bradley (Bradley's better offensive threat/DeRosa's hardly hurt = tie up)

Wood vs Gregg (Wood's probably just a little bit better/Gregg is younger and less injury prone than Wood is)

Howry vs Heilman (Heilman please)

Cedeno vs Aaron Miles (Aaron Miles, please)

Pie vs Gathright (Pretty much on the same exact level with each other - Pie will probably be the better player down the line)

 

I think this team is pretty much on par to what they were last year while saving some money.

 

You're still leaving out the main fact.... which is that we were going to regress from last year even if we kept the same team. There's so much production we got last year that was very unlikely to be duplicated in 2008.

 

Also, that Wood vs Gregg argument isn't really valid. It doesn't matter if Wood is healthy next year. We're talking about about regressing from last year. Last year, Wood was healthy for the majority of the season and was really good. We're not talking about whether or not Wood would be better this year, we're talking about regression as a team. 2008 Wood to 2009 Gregg will be a regression. Not that huge of a regression if Gregg pitches like he has recently, but still a regression.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Where on earth are we going to find another starter better than Marquis that's not Peavy? You act as if above-average starters are just floating around, waiting to be plucked.

 

Another possible regression is that I think it's very possible we've seen Soto's best season. *ducks*

Edited January 29, 2009 by Hairyducked Idiot

[Rusch33]

Woahhh wait a minute...Hendry is going to sing Bako to a 750k contract, correct me if Im wrong but isnt that what Blanco signed for? Blanco is a hell of a lot better than Paul freaking Bako.Gahhhhhh this offseason needs to end

 

Nothing like being a player or two away from the World Series and then regressing with nearly every transaction (Bradley excluded). And people wonder why it's been over a century since the Cubs last won the World Series. I can't figure it out!

 

How have they regressed? By getting rid of some of the dead weight on the team like Pie/Cedeno before they had no value/had to be cut?

 

DeRosa and Wood say "hi."

 

I'll make it easier:

 

DeRosa vs Bradley (Bradley's better offensive threat/DeRosa's hardly hurt = tie up)

Wood vs Gregg (Wood's probably just a little bit better/Gregg is younger and less injury prone than Wood is)

Howry vs Heilman (Heilman please)

Cedeno vs Aaron Miles (Aaron Miles, please)

Pie vs Gathright (Pretty much on the same exact level with each other - Pie will probably be the better player down the line)

 

I think this team is pretty much on par to what they were last year while saving some money.

 

You're still leaving out the main fact.... which is that we were going to regress from last year even if we kept the same team. There's so much production we got last year that was very unlikely to be duplicated in 2008.

 

Also, that Wood vs Gregg argument isn't really valid. It doesn't matter if Wood is healthy next year. We're talking about about regressing from last year. Last year, Wood was healthy for the majority of the season and was really good. We're not talking about whether or not Wood would be better this year, we're talking about regression as a team. 2008 Wood to 2009 Gregg will be a regression. Not that huge of a regression if Gregg pitches like he has recently, but still a regression.

 

I'm just putting the pieces together this year, and concluding that the offseason wasn't really as bad as thought (considering the Tribune is broke/trading the team). Are the Cubs going to regress? It's quite possible, and probably probable. Is this regression enough to keep the Cubs out of the playoffs?

 

Probably not considering they play in Central.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

We're definitely still the best team in the NL Central and it's not close.

 

Regression was more or less inevitable. Besides the fact that 97 wins is going to be pulled back to the mean anyway, we have no farm system and a bunch of backloaded contracts.

 

But unless payroll is a problem, wth was DeRosa dumped for?

[17 Seconds]

Nothing like being a player or two away from the World Series and then regressing at nearly every position on the club.

 

 

\:D/ I love the overreaction. Were doomed, we swapped a crappy back up catcher for a crappy back up catcher, and added a pitcher that will help us in 09, while trading away two players who probably won't. We added a 999 OPS hitter for RF who's hit very well on the road in his career, and replaced Wood with a guy who might allow 2-5 more runs then him next year. We let a 2b who had 900 plus OPS last year(799 career OPS in minors) play more. We traded away Jason Marquis? and we will probably add another starter and bench player. Look at it this way.

 

 

Added

Milton Bradley

More Fontenot/Miles

 

lost

Edmonds

DeRosa

Cedeno

 

* Bradley is a stud when he's not on the field and not playing half his home games in horrible hitters park. He's currently healthy, and have passed all the Cubs physical tests(changed his offseason work outs to hopefully keep him healthy as well). He's a upgrade over Edmonds, and more dependable to come through against good pitchers. DeRosa was unlikely to match his 08 numbers, so there was nothing wrong with going with a guy like Fontenot who has done nothing but hit. If for some reason Fontenot isn't as good as we hope, it's not impossible to find a 780 OPS type 2b pretty cheap during the season. Cedeno is a better defender then Miles, but Miles is a much better hitter, especially the last two years.

 

 

Added

Kevin Gregg

Aaron Heilman

Luis Vizcaino

 

Lost

Kerry Wood

Bob Howry

 

* Kevin Gregg isn't much worse then Wood result wise, and Heilman was pretty simliar to Wood from 05-07 as well. Vizcaino/Howry is pretty much a draw, but Vizcaino stuff is still good. So I think there's a chance he's much better then Howry was in 08. With Guzman healthy, and Gaudin possibly being in the pen for a full year. There's a good chance the bullpen is better next season.

 

 

Right now the only issue I have is rotation depth and outfield isn't quite as good with not being able to use DeRosa out there and Marquis in the rotation. But if we add another bench guy, and a starter better then Marquis(doesn't have to be Peavy). I will be happy with the offseason, and feel we have a better team in 2009. But thats just my opinion

 

That guy might have been overreacting, but you're kind of doing the same thing be pumping up the Cubs. I don't think you can say Bradley "is a .999 OPS hitter". He had a .999 OPS last year. That doesn't mean he's a .999 OPS hitter. It means he was a .999 OPS hitter last season, and did it with a ridiculous BABIP while playing in a ridiculous park that could probably turn me into a .800 OPS hitter. Hes got a career 118 OPS+. We're more likely to get his career .827 OPS than his .999 OPS from last year. Personally I'd be very happy with a high .800's OPS.

 

Also you can't downplay his injury problems that much. Sure they did physicals and he's healthy to start the season. Just like he was healthy before last season. And the one before that. And the one before that. Being healthy right now doesn't really mean anything. The injuries start when he's on the field.

 

Fontenot is also highly unlikely to be a .900 OPS guy last year, and it's not like he wouldn't have gotten a ton of ABs anyways. He would have gotten plenty when Bradley got hurt and DeRosa played RF.

 

Really I think if we kept the same exact team we'd hav been like an 89-91ish win team. With the moves that have been made I'd say they're more like an 87-89 win team now.

[17 Seconds]

I know Shea it's a bit of a pitchers' park (ESPN park factors have it that way over the last several years, at least), but how is it for home runs? Heilman has gone from 5 to 8 to 10 home runs over the last 3 seasons

[cubsfan26]

You're still leaving out the main fact.... which is that we were going to regress from last year even if we kept the same team. There's so much production we got last year that was very unlikely to be duplicated in 2008

 

 

Yes that is true, but having Soriano healthy for 140-150 games will help that. Derrek Lee is still capable of having a much better season, even though he was pretty subpar the final 5 months. Carlos Zambrano is also capable of having a better year and same goes with Ramirez. Rich Hill, Jon Lieber and Sean Gallagher also had a 4.80s era in 16 starts before we got Harden. So you're taking into count possible regression from Theriot, Soto, Dempster and maybe a few others. But you're not taking into account that Soriano missed 53 games, Lee had his worst season since 2001, and Ramirez was a little worse either.

 

 

 

So there is room for improvement with other guys. Sure if other guys stay at the same production or get worse mixed with other guys not being as good there will be some regression. But nobody can really predict what kind of years these guys will have. But usually with teams as talented as the Cubs things tend to even out. So yes they might not win 97 games, but I don't see how this team will be all that worse even if they only win 93 or 94.