2009 Chicago Bears offseason

[Banedon]

I'm surprised that Bill Cowher isn't mentioned as a possible Lovie replacement. I don't think Lovie is going anywhere, but if he where, Cowher would have to be on the list. Looks like the Browns are thinking along those lines.

[Derwood]

how much pressure do you think Angelo is under to retain Lovie because he's a minority coach? the NFL puts so much emphasis on this through the hiring rules that I can't help but think that Lovie will be given more rope than others. is this a ridiculous idea?

[dew1679666265]

People pretending there's nobody out there who can replace Lovie, or be as good as Lovie, aren't paying attention to the league. The Bears are routinely outcoached on Sundays. And the well run teams find quality coaches to replace the old regime fairly constantly. Look at Harbaugh in Baltimore, Sparano in Miami and Smith in Atlanta. You're telling me you can't find a quality coach on the Giants, Panthers, Titans, Colts or Steelers staff? Look at Tomlin in Pittsburgh. Why can't the Bears find a coach who gets the most out of his team and actually gets them to the playoffs constantly. The Steelers don't have a single elite talent on their offense and they only have a couple of truly great defensive players, but year-in and year-out that team plays great football and wins.

 

The Steelers are better than the Bears at QB (significant), WR (incredibly significant), TE (very slightly) and they're pretty even on the offensive line. The Bears (Forte) are better than the Steelers (Willie Parker) at RB.

 

The Bears are .500 the last two years. You're telling me they can't find a coach that can make them better than that? This isn't baseball, where it's pitcher vs hitter with quantifiable results. Coaching matters in football and the Bears aren't getting any coaching. They are filled with Lovie and a bunch of college coaches and nobody but Toub has come close to looking like potentially one of the best at their job in the NFL.

 

They could find a great coach, yes. But the likelihood is, when you're making a coaching change, that you will bomb. Miami has been through numerous coaches before Sparano, Atlanta the same, though Baltimore did well going from Brian Billick to Harbaugh.

 

If the coach is clearly the problem, he should be replaced. Given that Lovie got nine wins out of a Bear team with Kyle Orton, Devin Hester and an aging offensive line playing a huge role, I don't think he's the problem. And if you don't trust Jerry Angelo (which you don't seem to), why trust him to upgrade from Lovie?

 

If Lovie wants to replace all his coaches, fine, keep him. But if he insists on sticking with the teachers he brought in, and refuses to make the necessary changes, then he needs to be replaced because he brings absolutely nothing to the table on Sundays.

 

He brought enough to the table to barely miss the playoffs with a mediocre QB, bad wide receivers and an aging offensive line. Coordinator changes might be in order, but Lovie has done a pretty good job.

[bukie]

Is the problem with scheme or on-field personnel, though? It seems the defense's problem is that the scheme they use only works if every defensive player is capable of handling his tasks and is responsible for his gap or zone. If the front 4 can't get any QB pressure, it falls onto the coverage. If even one player screws up, there is a wide open receiver 15-20 yards down field. Unfortunately, the defensive personnel isn't as good as they need to be to handle the scheme anymore.

 

As far as statistical efficiency, the offense really was abysmal all-around. Orton was in the bottom 10% of QBs, the line was awful at pass blocking and below average at run blocking, the WRs were at the bottom of the league, and the TEs were really only average (which in this offense makes them a bright spot).

[jersey cubs fan]

There's a big leap from "no need to fire the coach" to "no need for changes."

 

The fact that you made it shows you aren't remotely objective about this, and are just another fan who wants to fire the coach. Fans *always* want to fire the coach.

 

You have no idea what you are talking about, as usual.

 

I've given Lovie plenty of rope. I haven't been calling for his head since the Super Bowl loss like some people have done. The fact is he's been here long enough and shown me, and anybody with any realistic sense, what he's made of as a coach. He doesn't offer anything from a schematic perspective. He's a horrible judge of talent. And he's far too loyal to his guys than he should be. Back to back no playoff seasons is disappointment enough. This team doesn't need to suffer through a 10 loss season next year just to be certain that Smith and his coaches aren't the right people for the job.

 

If Lovie acts on this disappointment and actually replaces his incompetent staff, he will have bought himself a chance. I don't see that happening.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Well, then we can respectfully disagree without needing to throw in things nobody said. I like the his coaching style, I like his game-day decisions and I like the team. I don't think replacing him is likely to make things better.

[TruffleShuffle]

everyone and their mother is trying to get cowher as coach. if the bears were interested in him it would have to be very behind-the-scenes, unless they were to can lovie before going after cowher. i don't think you fire lovie because if you do, you'd better be sure that you're getting a better coach to replace him. that might not be hard if your current head coach is norv turner or wade phillips, but lovie smith is not a bad coach.

[dew1679666265]

what about haynesworth? he instantly makes the front four formidable, and could free up our existing ends to rush the passer as well as getting it himself, he makes the line better and would definitely make tommie harris better. if .

I'd love him, but I think the Bears are only interested in undersized defensive lineman that get blown off the ball 99% of the plays.

 

That's the cover 2 defense! :D The Colts do the same thing - tiny, but fast D-linemen. Dungy and Lovie are both from the same school of thought.

 

And Albert is a great, great DT. Everything I've heard is that the Titans will bring him back, but they're still bickering over the contract, so I'm not certain.

I like to call it the "Tampa Terrible" defense. Hey look, I got a 260lb DT that runs a 4.7! And once a game he can use that quickness to make a play 5 yards in the backfield. Forget that he gets his arse handed to him the reaminder of the game, we have a real playmaker here.

 

You have to have the right fits everywhere to make it work, but the Colts and Bucs have proven it can work and work extremely well. The Colts play semi-frequently with DTs smaller than a lot of team's ends and their defense is solid. But they have the right players in place to run it.

 

The Colts have two players over 300 pounds on their defense - Antonio Johnson and Daniel Muir. Muir played in just six games and Johnson was picked up at midseason off waivers from the Titans. Indy's starting DTs weigh 274 (Brock) and 254 (Dawson).

[dew1679666265]

Is the problem with scheme or on-field personnel, though? It seems the defense's problem is that the scheme they use only works if every defensive player is capable of handling his tasks and is responsible for his gap or zone. If the front 4 can't get any QB pressure, it falls onto the coverage. If even one player screws up, there is a wide open receiver 15-20 yards down field. Unfortunately, the defensive personnel isn't as good as they need to be to handle the scheme anymore.

 

As far as statistical efficiency, the offense really was abysmal all-around. Orton was in the bottom 10% of QBs, the line was awful at pass blocking and below average at run blocking, the WRs were at the bottom of the league, and the TEs were really only average (which in this offense makes them a bright spot).

 

Exactly. I put more blame on Angelo for not having the talent than Lovie. Smith has actually done a pretty good job, I think, with the talent deficiency.

[jersey cubs fan]

And if you don't trust Jerry Angelo (which you don't seem to), why trust him to upgrade from Lovie?

 

The personel started going downhill when Lovie started getting more say in personel decisions, after the super bowl. I'm skeptical about Angelo, but I do have some faith in him improving things if things go back to his office making those calls and he presses Lovie for new coaches.

 

He brought enough to the table to barely miss the playoffs with a mediocre QB, bad wide receivers and an aging offensive line. Coordinator changes might be in order, but Lovie has done a pretty good job.

 

Lovie has "gotten the most" out of the players from an effort standpoint. What he hasn't done is outcoach anybody on Sunday. This is a plain vanilla team that can be exploited by any decent team with a reasonable amount of talent and discipline. They don't fool anybody with anything they do.

[bukie]

Two things I want to never see the Bears do again:

- Put Danieal Manning in at safety

- Put Rashied Davis in at WR

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Every time the Bears win because they get a bunch of turnovers or a big special teams play, Lovie has outcoached somebody.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

Two things I want to never see the Bears do again:

- Put Danieal Manning in at safety

- Put Rashied Davis in at WR

Amen to that. I actually though Manning had a nice game at Nickel vs Green Bay too. But man was he awful there again at safety Sunday. It was the Superbowl Part II. I really hope they bring Mike Brown back. Hell even if you can only get 10-12 games out of him it is still worth it. Of course it would be nice if Angelo could draft a safety worth a Vet. Commitee. Actually he did draft a decent one in Chris Harris then dumped him for Adam Archuleta. Sigh......

[jersey cubs fan]

Is the problem with scheme or on-field personnel, though? It seems the defense's problem is that the scheme they use only works if every defensive player is capable of handling his tasks and is responsible for his gap or zone. If the front 4 can't get any QB pressure, it falls onto the coverage. If even one player screws up, there is a wide open receiver 15-20 yards down field. Unfortunately, the defensive personnel isn't as good as they need to be to handle the scheme anymore.

 

From a defensive standpoint, it's a scheme that requires elite athletes making plays. It doesn't rely at all on thinking, it's simply a matter of our speed attacking the ball. It's a scheme that will fail when athletes age and team speed slips. And we've seen back to back seasons where the athleticism didn't come close to being good enough.

[hawkeyecub]

Look at the talent on your squad. How did you expect more than 9 wins with the offensive talent you have and an aging defense that is good but not great anymore?

 

I really don't get it.

[dew1679666265]

And if you don't trust Jerry Angelo (which you don't seem to), why trust him to upgrade from Lovie?

 

The personel started going downhill when Lovie started getting more say in personel decisions, after the super bowl. I'm skeptical about Angelo, but I do have some faith in him improving things if things go back to his office making those calls and he presses Lovie for new coaches.

 

He brought enough to the table to barely miss the playoffs with a mediocre QB, bad wide receivers and an aging offensive line. Coordinator changes might be in order, but Lovie has done a pretty good job.

 

Lovie has "gotten the most" out of the players from an effort standpoint. What he hasn't done is outcoach anybody on Sunday. This is a plain vanilla team that can be exploited by any decent team with a reasonable amount of talent and discipline. They don't fool anybody with anything they do.

 

There's only so much you can do when you don't have much talent to work with. I've said it a bunch already but Kyle Orton is Lovie's quarterback - he doesn't have a great range of skills to pull from. Devin Hester is the number one receiver for the Bears.

 

The Titans don't have a lot of talent at WR or QB (with Vince on the bench) so they are very vanilla as well. Luckily, they have an awesome offensive line and two very good running backs to combat that. The Bears have a very good running back, and a decent, aging offensive line.

[Banedon]

Two things I want to never see the Bears do again:

- Put Danieal Manning in at safety

- Put Rashied Davis in at WR

 

Manning as safety may happen more than you'd like depending on Mike Brown's situation. Frankly, I'd like to see Manning get consistent time at FS and see if he can actually develop there. I know he's had some big blown assignments, and apparently Urlacher got on him after he got burned yesterday (although I think Urlacher better worry about his own stuff)...but I think Manning still could develop if the Bears would put him somewhere and leave him there.

[jersey cubs fan]

Well, then we can respectfully disagree without needing to throw in things nobody said.

 

We can? I didn't see any respectful disagreement in your words.

[Banedon]

Look at the talent on your squad. How did you expect more than 9 wins with the offensive talent you have and an aging defense that is good but not great anymore?

 

I really don't get it.

 

Should've been at least 10 with that Atlanta game.

[TruffleShuffle]

Lovie has "gotten the most" out of the players from an effort standpoint. What he hasn't done is outcoach anybody on Sunday. This is a plain vanilla team that can be exploited by any decent team with a reasonable amount of talent and discipline. They don't fool anybody with anything they do.

 

it's a plain vanilla team because the players are plain vanilla. i guess every now and then a team comes along like the dolphins and throws in a bunch of trick plays that work for a while, but most teams win on talent, not gimmicks. the skill position players on the bears' offense are kyle orton, matt forte, rashied davis, brandon lloyd and devin hester. that's a lousy quarterback, a rb who is solid but not a game-breaker, two receivers who might not even be acceptable options as a #2 wr, and a converted cornerback who is a deep threat but is still very raw. there's not a lot there that scares anybody, and to keep other teams off balance it really helps to have at least one player who is a huge threat that you can use as a decoy.

[jersey cubs fan]

Every time the Bears win because they get a bunch of turnovers or a big special teams play, Lovie has outcoached somebody.

 

No, not true. Relying on turnovers in this scheme is simply relying on athletes making things happen. It is essentially playing for luck. It is not outscheming or outcoaching the opposition.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Every time the Bears win because they get a bunch of turnovers or a big special teams play, Lovie has outcoached somebody.

 

No, not true. Relying on turnovers in this scheme is simply relying on athletes making things happen. It is essentially playing for luck. It is not outscheming or outcoaching the opposition.

 

Hmm, funny how that luck keeps happening for the Bears more than any other team. Almost as if they were coached to go for the ball...

[Banedon]

Every time the Bears win because they get a bunch of turnovers or a big special teams play, Lovie has outcoached somebody.

 

No, not true. Relying on turnovers in this scheme is simply relying on athletes making things happen. It is essentially playing for luck. It is not outscheming or outcoaching the opposition.

 

True, but the Bears do that better than anyone else. They coach to create turnovers...swarm to the ball etc. Granted, there's a whole lotta luck involved too. There's a coaching aspect there though.

 

I just wish it wasn't the entire coaching plan.

[Magnetic Curses]

There's a big leap from "no need to fire the coach" to "no need for changes."

 

The fact that you made it shows you aren't remotely objective about this, and are just another fan who wants to fire the coach. Fans *always* want to fire the coach.

 

please. i've had my disagreements with him on plenty of accassions, but goony is not a meatball.

[jersey cubs fan]

Look at the talent on your squad. How did you expect more than 9 wins with the offensive talent you have and an aging defense that is good but not great anymore?

 

I really don't get it.

 

Lovie is a big part of the problem when it comes to personel. He started getting more control over those decisions after the Super Bowl appearance, plus his coaches routinely put guys who can help in the doghouse and then out the door. He contributed directly to the huge drop in talent in the defensive backfield, it would be like not giving Dusty Baker any blame for deciding to go with some past his prime "proven veteran" over a decent kid.